EK Resignations
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 375
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From: dubai
Is it true, as I have been told, that Air Arabia Captains earn about 60K dhs a month? (whereas an EK Captain earns about 40K dhs a month)
Just curious if that is true.
Granted, they don't have company accomodation like EK, although we all know what that means nowadays with the criminal increase in DEWA charges and Emirates complete disregard for our contract regarding those charges.
Just curious if that is true.
Granted, they don't have company accomodation like EK, although we all know what that means nowadays with the criminal increase in DEWA charges and Emirates complete disregard for our contract regarding those charges.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
From: uae
When you compare apples to apples you will find that some AA guys get paid more IE the guys that fly more at night 150% the hourly rate. but that means nighttime turns whick seems to be a big spot of bother with the EK guys claiming fatigue while you dont seem to hear that from AA , they choose to do them because they sre worth more. EK guys cant go back now and say"well if they paid me for the nighttime turns that would be different" they have made their own bed on that one
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 416
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From: uk
Trying to compare the short haul only roster of AA with the EK roster is just silly.
Having flown 100+hr months doing IT short haul you simply cannot compare the EK ULR/Long/turnaround combination for accumulative fatigue and general total knackeredessness.
AA do not have to cope with 12hr time zone changes have 2 days off then go the other way.
On a personal plus side at least the rosters are coming out earlier, a bit.
I do know that there are at present 200+ applications from EK pilots in at Korean, however the attrition rate at the sim is not good ......possibly thanks to our "don't hand fly culture".
I would like to believe that the lost T+Cs will be returned but I am too old and don't believe in Santa anymore
.
Happy dayz
Having flown 100+hr months doing IT short haul you simply cannot compare the EK ULR/Long/turnaround combination for accumulative fatigue and general total knackeredessness.
AA do not have to cope with 12hr time zone changes have 2 days off then go the other way.
On a personal plus side at least the rosters are coming out earlier, a bit.
I do know that there are at present 200+ applications from EK pilots in at Korean, however the attrition rate at the sim is not good ......possibly thanks to our "don't hand fly culture".
I would like to believe that the lost T+Cs will be returned but I am too old and don't believe in Santa anymore
.Happy dayz
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: nowhere
T & C Vs Safety
Honestly at the moment what I look at is not getting back the old contract but getting more attention to safety.
Our rosters in EK, at list for the Bus Guys, are out of any safety logic.
Having 11 hours duty during the middle of the night for a 2 pilot turnaround to india and back is absolutely UNSAFE!!!!!!
Specially if that happens quite often during the month. We got a very interesting article about sleep deprivation from one of our flight ops manager but I think we were the only one that did read it!!!!!
The check in for duty is just 1 hour before departure instead of at least 1 hour and 30 mins, plus we also have extensions like the annex 1 to fit with even longer duty periods!!!!!!
I honestly star being quite worried about........
Flare
Our rosters in EK, at list for the Bus Guys, are out of any safety logic.
Having 11 hours duty during the middle of the night for a 2 pilot turnaround to india and back is absolutely UNSAFE!!!!!!
Specially if that happens quite often during the month. We got a very interesting article about sleep deprivation from one of our flight ops manager but I think we were the only one that did read it!!!!!
The check in for duty is just 1 hour before departure instead of at least 1 hour and 30 mins, plus we also have extensions like the annex 1 to fit with even longer duty periods!!!!!!
I honestly star being quite worried about........
Flare
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: dubai
I agree with you Flare, our rostering is atrocious. Last month I did the maximum night duties in a given week, plus I did 2 variations (max 4 are allowed, which is insane) and then they inserted a DOH midnight turn in the middle of my days off. To top it all off, I only got ONE layover and that was a ULR. Magically I did 80 hours flying plus 2 Reserve Days. !!!! THAT !!!!E! (7 days off in total too)
By the end of the month, I didn't know what was up and what was down, let alone what day of the week it was.
On one return sector at 11am after a delayed departure (yet apparently within limits before discretion.... India turn) neither the F/O or me was talking sense during the descent. Sadly, I missed altitude calls as PF and he missed repeated R/T calls and then barely answered with a semblance of SOP's. It was a disaster waiting to happen, but fortunately another good weather day in DXB and not too much traffic.
I can understand the Triple7 dudes not understanding how things could be so bad on the BUS, but it is true.
Finally decided to fire off the CV. Happy with my lot in life, but oh so sad to finally realize something bad is going to happen soon at EK...... and it might involve ME !!! You just don't know anymore!
I feel so fortunate working for Emirates Airline! Just wish my life expectancy was not reducing so fast.
By the end of the month, I didn't know what was up and what was down, let alone what day of the week it was.
On one return sector at 11am after a delayed departure (yet apparently within limits before discretion.... India turn) neither the F/O or me was talking sense during the descent. Sadly, I missed altitude calls as PF and he missed repeated R/T calls and then barely answered with a semblance of SOP's. It was a disaster waiting to happen, but fortunately another good weather day in DXB and not too much traffic.
I can understand the Triple7 dudes not understanding how things could be so bad on the BUS, but it is true.
Finally decided to fire off the CV. Happy with my lot in life, but oh so sad to finally realize something bad is going to happen soon at EK...... and it might involve ME !!! You just don't know anymore!
I feel so fortunate working for Emirates Airline! Just wish my life expectancy was not reducing so fast.
Last edited by mensaboy; 21st November 2009 at 23:03.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: dubai
dude i hear you man, on duty from 1st -7th dec. 1european layover followed by 3turnarounds(2 of them to india).best of all ,1of those days i've got a mct turn at 2am followed by india turnaround on the same day at 2300..and this is the 6th consecutive day on duty already....but ...i only here to work
cheers
cheers
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: camelshitcity
I wanted to live a long happy life> that is incompatible with Emirates and I left.
No more Dubai !!!!e, no more wake up at 1 am no more India no more idiots, no more !
****uk Emirates!! Nevere felt better in my life!!!
No more Dubai !!!!e, no more wake up at 1 am no more India no more idiots, no more !
****uk Emirates!! Nevere felt better in my life!!!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 752
Likes: 0
From: Hades.
3X7 isn't always the nirvana you might think. I've got 3 night turns in 5 days, neatly separated by rest days to really screw my sleep pattern 
However, I'm aware the 'Bus isn't brilliant, which all comes down to belt tightening and not enough people. Rostered into overtime, which won't happen 'cos it'll cost, so I'm interested to see what will happen
However, I'm aware the 'Bus isn't brilliant, which all comes down to belt tightening and not enough people. Rostered into overtime, which won't happen 'cos it'll cost, so I'm interested to see what will happen
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 2
From: UAE
They will take flights off you, give you available days (never days off) which they will turn into standbys. You will then get called out for short flights which take you right up to, but never beyond, the overtime threshold.
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Hey guys,
I have to say that after 18 months of not working for EK I have a much better understanding of how close to the dangerous level I was with EK.
I now fly my 900 hours a year plus another 250 dead head hours. Hard work, yes! But at Kal we do get adequate rest, even with a compressed schedule. The Captain always has a first class seat reserved on long sectors, even if there is a cockpit crew rest facility. ULH flights get min 48 hour lay over. Plus your 11 blocked days off in a row each month helps get over it.
I have not had any micro sleep episodes since I have been here, in EK it was often a daily occurrence.
I am not saying that Korean is a better airline as a career option, just emphasizing and agreeing that EK has a huge problem with fatigue.
The really scary thing is that until you hit the fatigue wall and f_ck something up you may just think that micro sleeps and feeling like a bag of !!!! continually is normal. It is not! and it does not have to be that way.
Good luck and be careful guys.
I have to say that after 18 months of not working for EK I have a much better understanding of how close to the dangerous level I was with EK.
I now fly my 900 hours a year plus another 250 dead head hours. Hard work, yes! But at Kal we do get adequate rest, even with a compressed schedule. The Captain always has a first class seat reserved on long sectors, even if there is a cockpit crew rest facility. ULH flights get min 48 hour lay over. Plus your 11 blocked days off in a row each month helps get over it.
I have not had any micro sleep episodes since I have been here, in EK it was often a daily occurrence.
I am not saying that Korean is a better airline as a career option, just emphasizing and agreeing that EK has a huge problem with fatigue.
The really scary thing is that until you hit the fatigue wall and f_ck something up you may just think that micro sleeps and feeling like a bag of !!!! continually is normal. It is not! and it does not have to be that way.
Good luck and be careful guys.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: here and there
"The Captain always has a first class seat reserved on long sectors, even if there is a cockpit crew rest facility."
So the captain gets a good sleep while his two tired F/Os are struggleing to stay awake because of their bad crew bunk.
Sounds much safer to me.
Safe flying everyone
So the captain gets a good sleep while his two tired F/Os are struggleing to stay awake because of their bad crew bunk.
Sounds much safer to me.
Safe flying everyone
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Gee would that be a bit of a chip on the shoulder mate. Chill......and try to get some more sleep!
3 man crew, all can use the first class seat.
4 man crew, Captain first class, and F/Os have a reserved business class seat as well as a bunk. Extra crew do not have to be on the flight deck for all take offs and landings.
I am not saying that KAL is safer than EK, only that I am no where near as fatigued with KAL as I was with EK. Despite flying the same or more hours and more ULH sectors.
3 man crew, all can use the first class seat.
4 man crew, Captain first class, and F/Os have a reserved business class seat as well as a bunk. Extra crew do not have to be on the flight deck for all take offs and landings.
I am not saying that KAL is safer than EK, only that I am no where near as fatigued with KAL as I was with EK. Despite flying the same or more hours and more ULH sectors.