View Poll Results: EK Pilots only please - Would you carry a LOSA observer?
Sure, it'll serve to improve the future operation
52
60.47%
No way; sort the jumpseat authority out first
34
39.53%
Voters: 86. This poll is closed
LOSA observers at EK
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LOSA observers at EK
So we will get LOSA observers testing us later this year. Nothing threatening, I 've run through similar programs earlier. No negative but just as much no positive outcome could be felt. They could be individually refused aswell.
For my part I will refuse this time. Not that it would matter to me, but I still can't take my missus on the jump and this would be lightyears more important to me than any observer.
Maybe other collegues coincide with this grading and that could make someone think................
For my part I will refuse this time. Not that it would matter to me, but I still can't take my missus on the jump and this would be lightyears more important to me than any observer.
Maybe other collegues coincide with this grading and that could make someone think................
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Send the LSA Guys along with Crew B to N.Z. and back
If the company are looking for problem areas then place the LOSA guys on the 4 sector DXB-DOH-DXB-DOH with the change of aircraft in the middle and the departure late evening, or any other 4 sector late night departure flights.
If the LOSA guys are not placed on the Flight Deck following Crew B around the traps as they do the DXB-SYD-CHC-SYD-DXB or the DXB-MEL-AKL-MEL-DXB then this LOSA exercise will be a token effort from our Management and will fall a long way short of providing an accurate representation of what is happening on our fleets.
If this LOSA group study is as effective as the Fatigue Committee then you can bet your left one sweet F all will happen
If the LOSA guys are not placed on the Flight Deck following Crew B around the traps as they do the DXB-SYD-CHC-SYD-DXB or the DXB-MEL-AKL-MEL-DXB then this LOSA exercise will be a token effort from our Management and will fall a long way short of providing an accurate representation of what is happening on our fleets.
If this LOSA group study is as effective as the Fatigue Committee then you can bet your left one sweet F all will happen
Join Date: Feb 2005
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That LOSA letter is too funny.
"A passenger seat will be booked for the observer so that he can get some rest"
Aaaaahahahahahahahah.
I can see the company is rightly concerned about the risk of an observer making a critical error while ticking boxes on his form as he reaches the end of a tiring back of the clock turnaround.
As for the other two poor bastards doing the approach, who gives a toss.
I am continually impressed by this companies blatent disregard for its crews.
Looks like the LOSA observers might have a slightly stronger union than us.
V
"A passenger seat will be booked for the observer so that he can get some rest"
Aaaaahahahahahahahah.
I can see the company is rightly concerned about the risk of an observer making a critical error while ticking boxes on his form as he reaches the end of a tiring back of the clock turnaround.
As for the other two poor bastards doing the approach, who gives a toss.
I am continually impressed by this companies blatent disregard for its crews.
Looks like the LOSA observers might have a slightly stronger union than us.
V
Unfortunately the jumpseats according to company policy are not availiable unless its to GCAA or check training Captains. So ins in your interest to reject these people as per FOM and that way you will score a 5 for the company. CX do let people in the jump seat.
If the company relaxes the jumpseat rule in May then i should be able to offer my wife the other seat, or is the company too **** scared shell give me a blowjob inflight................
If the company relaxes the jumpseat rule in May then i should be able to offer my wife the other seat, or is the company too **** scared shell give me a blowjob inflight................
Join Date: Mar 2005
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15th May and LOSA is scheduled to begin. Despite all the rhetoric and perceived benefits given on the crew portal, until the jumpseat policy is revised I will not be participating. I trust the promise of no punitive action will be honoured, but then again I've been lied to before here....
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I was Losa'd 2 weeks ago, i don't think Ed's got the start date correct in his diary.
I don't see what you guys problem is, if there maybe a chance(?) of a change to some of the dafter SOP's, then all the better. You can turn it down, if it makes you feel better. The jumpseat is the companies, yes it should be the skippers perogative, but its not
I know for a fact that AAR approved a change, but them upstairs, ie. Timmy C would not. Seems he was miffed at his offspring being bumped a while back.
SyB
I don't see what you guys problem is, if there maybe a chance(?) of a change to some of the dafter SOP's, then all the better. You can turn it down, if it makes you feel better. The jumpseat is the companies, yes it should be the skippers perogative, but its not
I know for a fact that AAR approved a change, but them upstairs, ie. Timmy C would not. Seems he was miffed at his offspring being bumped a while back.SyB
Join Date: Jan 2005
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I was Losered . It is all de identified and NON JEOPARDY.The observer is not to be put on the VR so management don't even know if its a LOSA flight. . NOT A CHECK FLIGHT....No blood or pain at all really .Given the right to refuse at the start .
The guy was an emirates f/o trained in LOSA .Looking for threats that affect US on a daily basis.Not management .
Management wont care less if you kick LOSA observers off the Jump seat . I guarantee your wife wont get the jump seat because you made some pis#ant protest . I asked how many guys refused so far and he said they are not told and MANAGEMENT DON'T GET TOLD EITHER. So what is the point.......
The seat in the back is not so much for him to rest but gets him out of your hair for the majority of the cruise
The way I see it .You just miss a perfect opportunity to voice your opinion to management anonymously. You get a deidentified interview if you want it and it gets written up exactly as you write it. I went to town about fatigue and rostering.
Easy to cut off you nose sometimes.
The guy was an emirates f/o trained in LOSA .Looking for threats that affect US on a daily basis.Not management .
Management wont care less if you kick LOSA observers off the Jump seat . I guarantee your wife wont get the jump seat because you made some pis#ant protest . I asked how many guys refused so far and he said they are not told and MANAGEMENT DON'T GET TOLD EITHER. So what is the point.......
The seat in the back is not so much for him to rest but gets him out of your hair for the majority of the cruise
The way I see it .You just miss a perfect opportunity to voice your opinion to management anonymously. You get a deidentified interview if you want it and it gets written up exactly as you write it. I went to town about fatigue and rostering.
Easy to cut off you nose sometimes.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Have you heard the one about the external (non company) LOSA observer, who was unable to get put on the GD, so turned up at the aircraft with a ticket and his ID and requested access to the cockpit.
Capt had no idea who or what he was, tried calling the office boys, but no-one had a clue, so he had him offloaded. Unfortunately the police intervened and took him to the holding cells for a couple of hours
before he was finally accounted for.
By all accounts the LOSA head honcho was not a happy camper, to say the least. Still if he had any doubts about our organizational culture caused by the initial batch of observers refused, he had few at the end of that day.
By all accounts LOSA normally has about a 1% observer rejection rate, should give them something nice to talk about on the conference circuit.
Capt had no idea who or what he was, tried calling the office boys, but no-one had a clue, so he had him offloaded. Unfortunately the police intervened and took him to the holding cells for a couple of hours
before he was finally accounted for.By all accounts the LOSA head honcho was not a happy camper, to say the least. Still if he had any doubts about our organizational culture caused by the initial batch of observers refused, he had few at the end of that day.
By all accounts LOSA normally has about a 1% observer rejection rate, should give them something nice to talk about on the conference circuit.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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LOSA might be a good thing, their goal and their observers certainly striving to give a useful result. This results however will be given exclusively to EK. Now, do you honestly think EK will do anything about any shortcomings reported? Do you really think any of the silly SOP's will be abolished? The folder will be nicely embellished for our visionary leaders and then eternally stocked in a dark and dusty subcontinental office. The only thing EK is after, is a shiny award on the wall for every VP and a LOSA sticker on every aircraft and website to show off.
If we want to get a message to them, it's naive to think that it could run through a LOSA F/O taking notes of your rant. If however enough of us refuse the observers, telling them it's not about LOSA but the company, THEN some message gets to the offices.
If we want to get a message to them, it's naive to think that it could run through a LOSA F/O taking notes of your rant. If however enough of us refuse the observers, telling them it's not about LOSA but the company, THEN some message gets to the offices.
Join Date: Sep 1999
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To LOSA or not?
Two options and possible outcomes here:
1) Carry the guy on your jumpseat. He generates some good gen that is fed back to the company. Worst case - the recommendation's ignored by EK. Best case some changes are actually made.
BUT at least someone, somewhere has documented the conditions we are operating under. (Hope they send a few to HAAB as well as on the Tasman sleepovers).
2) You refuse to carry the LOSA guy. Enough refusals and the program fails.
What GMDS, does (2) achieve? Other than reinforcing the opinion that we are a bunch of childish idiots?
1) Carry the guy on your jumpseat. He generates some good gen that is fed back to the company. Worst case - the recommendation's ignored by EK. Best case some changes are actually made.
BUT at least someone, somewhere has documented the conditions we are operating under. (Hope they send a few to HAAB as well as on the Tasman sleepovers).
2) You refuse to carry the LOSA guy. Enough refusals and the program fails.
What GMDS, does (2) achieve? Other than reinforcing the opinion that we are a bunch of childish idiots?
As I understand it although all individual reports are confidential when the final assessment is made you can compare your company with others who have taken part. This will of course, reflect any problems you have, be it fatigue or anything else.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I operated a flight with a LOSA observer on it recently. It was the guy's last couple of days - he'd been here a coupla' weeks already...
I reckon Mr Ed is confused.
The observer was as cynical as I am... he says it all depends on what the company wants to "see" and he insinuated that the company may not even advise us of the LOSA survery results, or will filter them.
I wish I'd thought of the FOM seat policy as a defense... just to snarl the process. Feelin' a littel cranky 'bout all this bull**** these days.
The whole thing is a stupid party trick with no credibility. The LOSA guys do no overnight flights, it's all turnarounds. Our guy had a ticket, but was on the gen dec so he could stay aboard during our turn...
Nice 'nuff guy, retired airline driver, just does this pretend job for kicks. No illusions about the sanity or integrity of the whole thing - it's just a charade anyway.
Fly safely compadres
k-o-t-s
I reckon Mr Ed is confused.
The observer was as cynical as I am... he says it all depends on what the company wants to "see" and he insinuated that the company may not even advise us of the LOSA survery results, or will filter them.
I wish I'd thought of the FOM seat policy as a defense... just to snarl the process. Feelin' a littel cranky 'bout all this bull**** these days.
The whole thing is a stupid party trick with no credibility. The LOSA guys do no overnight flights, it's all turnarounds. Our guy had a ticket, but was on the gen dec so he could stay aboard during our turn...
Nice 'nuff guy, retired airline driver, just does this pretend job for kicks. No illusions about the sanity or integrity of the whole thing - it's just a charade anyway.
Fly safely compadres
k-o-t-s
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I was Losa'ED on a layover KOTS, nightflight, so don't know where you got that from! The guy did us one way and another crew on the way back i guess.
Like OVERCHINA says, EK management have no clue how many refusals, the LOSA guy said if we refused, there was no feedback to the company. If have no reason to disbelieve him. If the programme fails, whoopee, who has won, no one at all. L1011 makes an excellent point.
SyB
Like OVERCHINA says, EK management have no clue how many refusals, the LOSA guy said if we refused, there was no feedback to the company. If have no reason to disbelieve him. If the programme fails, whoopee, who has won, no one at all. L1011 makes an excellent point.
SyB
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Approached a while back at the CBC by a LOSA guy (EK FO). I knew nothing about the whole thing so said no. Chatting about it he said he goes back to Scheduling and asks for another flight, so your rejection is noticed somewhere. Also said they had 3 rejections so far (beating the 1% average) This alone speaks volumes. I wouldn't reject again, if he was one of our guys he could do the walk around...! I agree with GMDS though, another "trophy" but can't see it affecting me and its always nice to talk to someone else for a few hours. BTW, he was on the GD so as an Operations staff member he is allowed on the Jump seat...