GoreTex

Mutt,
the 10 min brief is an Aussie thing, I never met anybody else in EK who briefs that long and forget the most essential things.

max AB

A lot of Aussie bashing today, why would that be??? Oh yeah, we just flogged the poms at cricket!

EGGW

Meow!!!! Sorry i missed the news on that, can you quickly brief me on the cricket score?? I said brief maaaaaate

Well done to the OZ mates, but you buggers sure know how to do terminally booooooooooooring briefs. Not all i will happily admit.

EGGW

CAYNINE

Oy there mates, us colonials that arrived on these sandy shores in recent years also sit there and struggle to stay awake during monotone magnormous briefs that have so much verbalisation about the departure and everything down to the colour of the sky that embarassment sets in.

Less talk about crap and more about important things like where the blo*dy hills are would be a great start.

Lite Bulb

Forget employing 300 hour cadets, the company already has it's own scheme in place, what about all those 2000 - 3000hour Jet f/o's and turboprop Captains out there. They would be ideal to fill the right seat slots, young, keen and happy to do the years service until they swap seats. The problem EK has is finding Captains so they will be looking for dec's for sometime to come. Let's hope the standards are not relaxed so I can rest easily when my family are aboard.

Vorsicht

Why is it that everyone assumes the standards are relaxed after they are employed??

V

TangoUniform

Now that's funny. Well said. BTW, straight from the horses mouth last week, "only 20 DECs hired next year".
TU

MR8

That's 20 too much!!

MR8

Fart Master

20 DEC's, yeah right.

Just like the "DEC's will not delay anybodies upgrade"

MTOW

Isn't it funny that we've switched totally to the Boeing FCTM - except in regards to briefs, which are anything but. We insist on making sure the other guy knows our mother's maiden name, the colour of the knickers she briefly wore on her wedding night - and whether they were heirlooms handed dowm to her by her mother. And we're supposed to tell the other guy all this again and again and again.

And now we have to have the book out for each b.....r.....i....e....f.... in case we might miss one chapter of the unbrief.

I agree with the comment someone made above - you stop hearing a word that's being droned ... sorry, said after the eleventh word. Why not do it the Boeing way? - Tell the other guy what's different about the departure / arrival. The rest is SOP, and shouldn't be recited, over and and over over again.

And what's this 'Australian' thing regarding the 'War and Peace' unbriefs? Is that an Airbus thing?

square leg

I think we should optimise the usage of SOP's to our advantage. When it says "appropriate items", then only brief the appropriate items for approach.

At the CBC mention the taxi route and have a quick look at the chart on the wall and consider the the taxi route discussed. Don't forget to mention that it's "not for operational use" as stated at the bottom.

Think about it from a different angle. When doing all those gross error checks, things like flaps, flex, speeds are mentioned. There is no need to mention them again when we "brief" the departure as it's already been mentioned. While we brief from the box, I think we should think outside of the box.

CAYNINE

You will find that the "Australian thing" is a direct decendant from pre '89 Ansett and Australian Airlines. It's mainly the 14 year capts that do this. You will not see many other Ozzies in the right and newish in the left that have this tendancy.

Wiley

I can't think of too many people who fit the "Australia 89 thing" in positions of power on the Boeing. So, to repeat MTOW's question: is this insistence of mega briefings coming from the Australian checkies on the Airbus fleet?

Personally, I can't think of a more inappropriate word than "brief" for what we currently do.

Backwater

Aiming Point. Well said. When I figure out who you are I'll buy you a beer...
Rgds

Austin Holed

Aiming Point: I like what you say about the briefings, wise words, but...
"the woefully deteriorating standard of flight crew applicants over the past 10 years"
Gosh, I never realised us new joiners (only 4 years for me) were so much worse than those who joined 10 years ago.

4HolerPoler

Careful guys; avoid getting into a scrap about different nationalities and their respective foibles - we need to stick together on such issues.

Please think twice before lashing out at your colleagues.

Thanks. 4HP

chinawladi

As I seem to have kicked off this drift from the original thread, I’d like to clarify:
By saying “oz-brief” I used a common stereotype about dull and long briefs. As a matter of fact it no longer sticks to Australians only, it has become a expression that fits more than one nationality.


As for this:

Giving short briefs has nothing to do with non-compliance to FOM or SOP. These are requirements for personal knowledge but not required briefing contents. Wanting to evade any prosecution by spamming up the voice recorder would lead to singing the whole FOM before each flight.

A good brief is BRIEF, gives the essential differencies or specialities of the operation to come. The shorter it is, the closer to execution we can give the brief and the better it will be retained by both pilots. We should NOT repeat the standards or we lose all the attention of our collegue.

I assume that in the early days of EK some good soul set up ONE possible brief in the FCOM, as a examlpe to fall back for cadets and newbees. It then slowly became almost religion because it was safer to memorise and reproduce what someone else had already published without having his @.. kicked, than using ones own brain,experience and airmenship.
Let's get back to that and hear some precise briefs that address the ACTUAL operation and not some tiring, presung, heard it a thousand time "... no action below 400ft except silencing the warning and raising the gear by this handle ... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "

china

ruserious

Ahh Muttley you have been in the Middle East too long, nice bit of blame shifting and denial going on there.
There are good and bad sorts in all Nationalities and as a generalisation the Oz Mates take the bikkie for the long brief. Fair or not you (or your Nationality) generally deserve the reputation you have got.

Oblaaspop

Indeed Muttley, and I'm sure had he have briefed the entire STAR arrival route into his home base, including tracks and distances (despite the fact the FMS Database had already been in use for 3 weeks, and couldn't possibly have changed!) he would have totally prevented the said wingtip misshap!! NOT!!!

Surely you must see the point being made?

In a previous life at home base, my brief used to be "If I tell you that we're taking off from that runway over there (while pointing out the window), I've said too much"......KISS

chinawladi

Agreed Mutt, but the FOM also states:

All briefings should be clear and
concise as lengthy briefings can be
counter-productive.