Is Ek This Bad?
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Dubai ex Brissie
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Myway,
I have 8 years at EK. If your outlook on life is the same as your callsign then may I respectfully suggest that niether Dubai nor Emirates will be your cup of tea.
Good luck with your decision.
CC.
I have 8 years at EK. If your outlook on life is the same as your callsign then may I respectfully suggest that niether Dubai nor Emirates will be your cup of tea.
Good luck with your decision.
CC.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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working in UAE
Myway
cant speak for emirates, however after working for Serco in AUH for a few years, I would not recommend it. Most private companies tend to take advantage of the lack of IR worklaws there when they can.
As I said dont know about emirates but could be much the same. As for Dubai lots of traffic apparently.
cmon you emirates lot I would be interested to hear your answers to compare with my experience.
cheers
cant speak for emirates, however after working for Serco in AUH for a few years, I would not recommend it. Most private companies tend to take advantage of the lack of IR worklaws there when they can.
As I said dont know about emirates but could be much the same. As for Dubai lots of traffic apparently.
cmon you emirates lot I would be interested to hear your answers to compare with my experience.
cheers
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info on emirates
Hi Borat
tks for the info, funny the site says they cover airfares to DXB for interview, visas and accommodation?
Re the villas, are these in a compound or are they free standing?
and if you have to move do they cover the cost of the shift to a new premises?
re the "desert camp" where exactly is that located in relation to the airport and the aviation college?
Cost of petrol (I am from Australia) is cheap at around 42c AUD per litre ...we pay around $1.20 AUD per litre!!
Please forward more info all of you emirates staffers, would be much appreciated.
rgds
Myway
tks for the info, funny the site says they cover airfares to DXB for interview, visas and accommodation?
Re the villas, are these in a compound or are they free standing?
and if you have to move do they cover the cost of the shift to a new premises?
re the "desert camp" where exactly is that located in relation to the airport and the aviation college?
Cost of petrol (I am from Australia) is cheap at around 42c AUD per litre ...we pay around $1.20 AUD per litre!!
Please forward more info all of you emirates staffers, would be much appreciated.
rgds
Myway
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Myway, I have a few friends that are grade 9 and I will answer based on what I know of their terms & conditions.
Your Grade 9 package is very dependant on what the job is. I would be surprised if a "core G9" position gets as much as 18,000 pcm. I would have thought it would be nearer to 14K. By a Core G9 position I mean a HR person or some other middle management position. In Flight Services (Cabin crew) generally get more than a core G9 position and Flight Crew Training Instructors get roughly the same basic as a First Officer (18K).
As to accommodation, if you are single or married without kids, you will almost certainly get offered a apartment. These are to a good standard usually, however you cannot guarantee location or quality. The accommodation department will dump you where they have availability and sometimes it can be really quite bad. You have little or no influence on this.
DO NOT think about finding your own accommodation, you WILL regret that.
All in all, a G9 position can be OK, but you will have to learn the company way of doing things, don't rock the boat, don't expect to or try and improve things, expect to be managed by a totally unsuitable person and treated like you are disposable.
However, if you can play the game (embrace the organisations psycopathic treatment off staff and cut costs at every corner) expect rapid promotion to SVP level
Your Grade 9 package is very dependant on what the job is. I would be surprised if a "core G9" position gets as much as 18,000 pcm. I would have thought it would be nearer to 14K. By a Core G9 position I mean a HR person or some other middle management position. In Flight Services (Cabin crew) generally get more than a core G9 position and Flight Crew Training Instructors get roughly the same basic as a First Officer (18K).
As to accommodation, if you are single or married without kids, you will almost certainly get offered a apartment. These are to a good standard usually, however you cannot guarantee location or quality. The accommodation department will dump you where they have availability and sometimes it can be really quite bad. You have little or no influence on this.
DO NOT think about finding your own accommodation, you WILL regret that.
All in all, a G9 position can be OK, but you will have to learn the company way of doing things, don't rock the boat, don't expect to or try and improve things, expect to be managed by a totally unsuitable person and treated like you are disposable.
However, if you can play the game (embrace the organisations psycopathic treatment off staff and cut costs at every corner) expect rapid promotion to SVP level
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ruserious
tks for the info. This is for an ATC instructor position (ie training ATCs at the college) at the aviation college so definitely a core HR role, so I will still assume until otherwise advised it will be in the realm of the 18,000 dhs/mth mark unless otherwise advised.
tks again.
waiting for more input ladies and gents, please step forward with your input.
cheers
Myway
tks for the info. This is for an ATC instructor position (ie training ATCs at the college) at the aviation college so definitely a core HR role, so I will still assume until otherwise advised it will be in the realm of the 18,000 dhs/mth mark unless otherwise advised.
tks again.
waiting for more input ladies and gents, please step forward with your input.
cheers
Myway
Join Date: Dec 1999
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On 18k per month if you are single? you can live reasonably well. If you have a family to take care of? Forget it!
We have three kids and running the household expenses and kids extras, comes to 15k p.m.
Every month this place experiences an escalation of costs.
The Dirham is also linked to the US. I dont think an elaborate explanation is required on that subject. Especially if we witness a further weakness of the greenback.
Expect your contract to change at will! As and when the HR and accounting team deem so. Without your consent! It's never required!
Check Six
We have three kids and running the household expenses and kids extras, comes to 15k p.m.
Every month this place experiences an escalation of costs.
The Dirham is also linked to the US. I dont think an elaborate explanation is required on that subject. Especially if we witness a further weakness of the greenback.
Expect your contract to change at will! As and when the HR and accounting team deem so. Without your consent! It's never required!
Check Six
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check 6
tks, only me, the wife and one child, struth 15K per mth for expenses seems a little on the high side, we thought we should have no probs living on around 7,500 per month considering all the other stuff they pay for!!
Obviously I must be getting incorrect information from others.
what would one expect to pay for an average trolly of groceries there, from one of the middle range supermarkets, not purchasing anything to fancy either?
more input as per my questions earlier post would be appreciated, when you have the time.
await your response!
cheers
tks, only me, the wife and one child, struth 15K per mth for expenses seems a little on the high side, we thought we should have no probs living on around 7,500 per month considering all the other stuff they pay for!!
Obviously I must be getting incorrect information from others.
what would one expect to pay for an average trolly of groceries there, from one of the middle range supermarkets, not purchasing anything to fancy either?
more input as per my questions earlier post would be appreciated, when you have the time.
I know the salary for EK09 is around 18,000 dhs pmth....are they negotiable?
I have recieved the conditions sheet (with no base salary) but everything else seems OK on outside!
I have seen some unfavourable comments re housing, as i WAS looking to use the company accommodation and some have said they have been moved numerous times, why is this and is this normal? obviously we dont want to keep having to move every so often as this a real pain in the arse!
we want to be in a villa near the city for ease of access and does an EK09 get a villa (how many bedrooms?) or apartment?
are the villas freestanding or in a compound with pool, garage or carport, etc? what sort of condition are they in (incl the furniture)?
does one get to choose the villa (accommodation) or are you just given one and lump it or like it?
Where is the desert camp, why would one want to go out that far?
cost of living question: what a normal/ average trolley of groceries cost their for a family of 2 adults/1 child?
can anyone give me a precis of the interview process (non pilot/aircrew) as I believe it is over a 2 day period and did they arrange airfare, accommodation and visa (and pay for it) and what about meals?, where is it held?
for the interview do they pick you up at the airport and drop you off again?
what is cost of petrol?
what are better areas for renting (if I go that route) ...only get around 106,000 dhs pa for rent allowance (and it seems to rent a 3 bed villa in decent area at least 150k dhs pa or more?
tips on schools for child just entering high school ?
any issues re the health, insurance side of things with the company?
re the staff profit share...for an EK09 what was that over the last few financial years and is this based on a potential of your base salary?
I also noticed they may have an additional bonus if exceed their nominated profit, has that ever happened? how is that share based?
I know there will be those of you who will have an axe to grind and I am happy for you to vent your steam, however all I ask is that you can keep it objective for me at the same time, I do need to hear all the pros and the cons from you good folk.
I have recieved the conditions sheet (with no base salary) but everything else seems OK on outside!
I have seen some unfavourable comments re housing, as i WAS looking to use the company accommodation and some have said they have been moved numerous times, why is this and is this normal? obviously we dont want to keep having to move every so often as this a real pain in the arse!
we want to be in a villa near the city for ease of access and does an EK09 get a villa (how many bedrooms?) or apartment?
are the villas freestanding or in a compound with pool, garage or carport, etc? what sort of condition are they in (incl the furniture)?
does one get to choose the villa (accommodation) or are you just given one and lump it or like it?
Where is the desert camp, why would one want to go out that far?
cost of living question: what a normal/ average trolley of groceries cost their for a family of 2 adults/1 child?
can anyone give me a precis of the interview process (non pilot/aircrew) as I believe it is over a 2 day period and did they arrange airfare, accommodation and visa (and pay for it) and what about meals?, where is it held?
for the interview do they pick you up at the airport and drop you off again?
what is cost of petrol?
what are better areas for renting (if I go that route) ...only get around 106,000 dhs pa for rent allowance (and it seems to rent a 3 bed villa in decent area at least 150k dhs pa or more?
tips on schools for child just entering high school ?
any issues re the health, insurance side of things with the company?
re the staff profit share...for an EK09 what was that over the last few financial years and is this based on a potential of your base salary?
I also noticed they may have an additional bonus if exceed their nominated profit, has that ever happened? how is that share based?
I know there will be those of you who will have an axe to grind and I am happy for you to vent your steam, however all I ask is that you can keep it objective for me at the same time, I do need to hear all the pros and the cons from you good folk.
cheers
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We have 1 kid, and are fairly careful with our money and I reckon it costs us about 12-14,000 on average each month.
The dollar will almost certainly de-value, when I arrived it was 5.6 to the pound, as of yesterday it was about 7.2, couple that with rampant inflation.
Keep suffering
...... sorry recovering
The dollar will almost certainly de-value, when I arrived it was 5.6 to the pound, as of yesterday it was about 7.2, couple that with rampant inflation.
Keep suffering
...... sorry recovering
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thanks, only 2 more questions
tks all fro those who responded.
after a fairly late night trawl of the net (incl pprune) I reckon I have just about got the picture and all the info I was looking for, plus with my 2 year experience earlier this century, the jury will be out for a while, I think.
Just want a place to see me to retirement over next 7-10 years but not sure this will do it, especially if ERP is chucked.
As I am going for an ATC instructor position, is the "pilots club" only open to EK pilots or would they welcome an EK ATC instructor into the club as well?
also, the one thing I have been able to dig up info on is the so called "waiting lists" at some schools... can someone enlighten me please?
wait foryour replies to the above.
cheers
after a fairly late night trawl of the net (incl pprune) I reckon I have just about got the picture and all the info I was looking for, plus with my 2 year experience earlier this century, the jury will be out for a while, I think.
Just want a place to see me to retirement over next 7-10 years but not sure this will do it, especially if ERP is chucked.
As I am going for an ATC instructor position, is the "pilots club" only open to EK pilots or would they welcome an EK ATC instructor into the club as well?
also, the one thing I have been able to dig up info on is the so called "waiting lists" at some schools... can someone enlighten me please?
wait foryour replies to the above.
cheers
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A question for Ed
Nice to see that some single FOs like Waltair are happy since joining EK 9 months ago. However from someone who has been here considerably longer, perhaps Ed the talking horse may be able answer some of the following:
1. If EK has the pilots we need (as seen in 7days) why are we flying 100 hours a month,
2.Why is there no leave available,
3.Why Captains have 2 – 3 months of leave owing that can't be taken,
4.Why we fly around 2 crew where most other airlines would use two or three on flights with similar duty times,
5.Why we fly to New York direct in aircraft with no bunks,
6.Why no one can be bothered submitting safety reports anymore,
7.Why the company is pursuing to increase our annual flying limit to 1000hrs when the majority of Captains are already chronically fatigued,
8.Why we have to explain to a dispatcher how much fuel we want to take,
9.Why pilots are carpeted for submitting fatigue related safety reports,
10.Why our rosters come out 4 days before they start,
11.Why training captains are leaving EK to join Cathay as Second Officers, and Dragon Air, and others as FOs
12. Why pilots are leaving in record numbers.
1. If EK has the pilots we need (as seen in 7days) why are we flying 100 hours a month,
2.Why is there no leave available,
3.Why Captains have 2 – 3 months of leave owing that can't be taken,
4.Why we fly around 2 crew where most other airlines would use two or three on flights with similar duty times,
5.Why we fly to New York direct in aircraft with no bunks,
6.Why no one can be bothered submitting safety reports anymore,
7.Why the company is pursuing to increase our annual flying limit to 1000hrs when the majority of Captains are already chronically fatigued,
8.Why we have to explain to a dispatcher how much fuel we want to take,
9.Why pilots are carpeted for submitting fatigue related safety reports,
10.Why our rosters come out 4 days before they start,
11.Why training captains are leaving EK to join Cathay as Second Officers, and Dragon Air, and others as FOs
12. Why pilots are leaving in record numbers.
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Myway,
I too know several EK09 'middle managers'.
The answers & comments given by Ruseriious & co are on the mark, especially about the pay level & cost of living. You will do well to get above 14/15k.
A few other comments:
On this salary level, you will need another income source to get you any spending or saving money.... most spouse's of this income level HAVE to work as such...
Silicon Oasis, the desert camp, is a group of about 80 villa's, similar in fashion and design to Ranches / Meadows etc. They are brand new, and still not fully occupied, although I think some have been living there now for about 6 months. Key point for you however is that they are Grade 10 & above only. So not for you unless you can sway Accom in some miraculous manner...
The utilities / rental allowance will not get you good enough accomodation on the open rental market in Dubai - you will have to look at Sharjah as option, which is where most the EK subcontinent middle managers live, or even Al Ain, neither attractive for a variety of reasons. Even Mirdiff, the previous 'cheap' spot, is out of your reach unless you look at a small 2 bed place.
If you wish to buy, you will need about 40 or 50% deposit to be allow your allowance to pay your mortgage, or if you have smaller deposit, you will need to top up your mortgage to tune of 2 or 3 k per month minimum.
Schools have become busy again, and waiting lists the norm again, even after several new schools opening. You will have some limited choice, and EK employment is an advantage in some of the schools, but your choice of living location (if any) may (likely) to be in direct conflict with location of school.
The pilots club is known as EPC - now is pilots only as Associate membership has been stopped or capped (not sure which) - but either way, I doubt they will be able to accept you. If they do, it helps someway with some discounts and some beach club entrance, so the annual fee is well worth it.
And just like everyone else in the company, whether pilot, CC, or clerk, secretary or manager, EK will get their pound of flesh from you, no matter how hard you try to play it down the middle.
But Dubai is fun place to live, the weather is great for most of year, despite this weekend's 7's wash-out, and a lot of other positives. The traffic is a nightmare, but you learn to live with it just like any other city or place that has rush hours... the local laws and bureacracies are a minefield...
If it is a good career move, then take it, and manage the finances closely. If it is just for some fun in the sun, then OK too. But if you think you're coming to make some brass for old age, then forget it!
Cheers
ZZZ
I too know several EK09 'middle managers'.
The answers & comments given by Ruseriious & co are on the mark, especially about the pay level & cost of living. You will do well to get above 14/15k.
A few other comments:
On this salary level, you will need another income source to get you any spending or saving money.... most spouse's of this income level HAVE to work as such...
Silicon Oasis, the desert camp, is a group of about 80 villa's, similar in fashion and design to Ranches / Meadows etc. They are brand new, and still not fully occupied, although I think some have been living there now for about 6 months. Key point for you however is that they are Grade 10 & above only. So not for you unless you can sway Accom in some miraculous manner...
The utilities / rental allowance will not get you good enough accomodation on the open rental market in Dubai - you will have to look at Sharjah as option, which is where most the EK subcontinent middle managers live, or even Al Ain, neither attractive for a variety of reasons. Even Mirdiff, the previous 'cheap' spot, is out of your reach unless you look at a small 2 bed place.
If you wish to buy, you will need about 40 or 50% deposit to be allow your allowance to pay your mortgage, or if you have smaller deposit, you will need to top up your mortgage to tune of 2 or 3 k per month minimum.
Schools have become busy again, and waiting lists the norm again, even after several new schools opening. You will have some limited choice, and EK employment is an advantage in some of the schools, but your choice of living location (if any) may (likely) to be in direct conflict with location of school.
The pilots club is known as EPC - now is pilots only as Associate membership has been stopped or capped (not sure which) - but either way, I doubt they will be able to accept you. If they do, it helps someway with some discounts and some beach club entrance, so the annual fee is well worth it.
And just like everyone else in the company, whether pilot, CC, or clerk, secretary or manager, EK will get their pound of flesh from you, no matter how hard you try to play it down the middle.
But Dubai is fun place to live, the weather is great for most of year, despite this weekend's 7's wash-out, and a lot of other positives. The traffic is a nightmare, but you learn to live with it just like any other city or place that has rush hours... the local laws and bureacracies are a minefield...
If it is a good career move, then take it, and manage the finances closely. If it is just for some fun in the sun, then OK too. But if you think you're coming to make some brass for old age, then forget it!
Cheers
ZZZ
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an expat born n bred in dubai ....i had been afemale cadet from dubai who finished my ab-intio training in British aerospace early this jan..
(alongside some 300 Ek/CX/JAL/KA/CAL cadets who r also mass FACTORY produced..there. )
n i tell you - its not the employee packages tat worry me in EK anymore
its how many times any EK cadet is ALLOWED to fail his CPL theory exams on subjects like MET n HPL tat leave me bewildered///
i wonder how long before safety n atitude will become "an issue" within the organization!
ps: alongwith employee morale ofcourse....which seems to be @ grnd zero from the "seems of these threads ! "
S.
(alongside some 300 Ek/CX/JAL/KA/CAL cadets who r also mass FACTORY produced..there. )
n i tell you - its not the employee packages tat worry me in EK anymore
its how many times any EK cadet is ALLOWED to fail his CPL theory exams on subjects like MET n HPL tat leave me bewildered///
i wonder how long before safety n atitude will become "an issue" within the organization!
ps: alongwith employee morale ofcourse....which seems to be @ grnd zero from the "seems of these threads ! "
S.
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sentimental
hawki --- dont get senti here-
i passed my cpl on first go - how abt u chk some records b4 u quoteas for ek - i have some very dear friends - and each of them deserve what they have. lets not get personal here. this is not a personal forum but a professional one to seek and share information! lets keep it that way-
i passed my cpl on first go - how abt u chk some records b4 u quote
as for ek - i have some very dear friends - and each of them deserve what they have. lets not get personal here. this is not a personal forum but a professional one to seek and share information! lets keep it that way-
Last edited by sofee; 4th Dec 2006 at 05:21.
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hawki --- dont get senti here-
i passed my cpl on first go - how abt u chk some records b4 u quoteas for ek - i have some very dear friends - and each of them deserve what they have. lets not get personal here. this is not a personal forum but a professional one to seek and share information! lets keep it that way-
i passed my cpl on first go - how abt u chk some records b4 u quote
as for ek - i have some very dear friends - and each of them deserve what they have. lets not get personal here. this is not a personal forum but a professional one to seek and share information! lets keep it that way-