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Aus Expats in Dubai

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Aus Expats in Dubai

Old 30th Jul 2006, 02:13
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Aus Expats in Dubai

G'day all.

I've read through the last four pages or so of threads and I'm getting a feel for what people are saying about Dubai and EK.

I've got a couple of young kids, wife obviously(!), live in Aus and I'm starting to look at my options as things are getting more and more uncertain here by the day.

I certainly meet the requirements for DE FO but have no jet command time.

I know there have been threads on the state of life in Dubai before but please don't respond with answers such as "use the search function" etc. as all I'm really looking for is some honest feedback and suggestions.

QUESTIONS....

1. Are things really as bad as everybody says or is it just a chance for people to vent their spleens anonymously?

2. I can read from the EK website their terms and conditions but how do you find living in Dubai with young children and a family?

3. Does your wife/ partner find it easy while you're away? Is there a reasonable support network amongst wives etc. or is it every man for himself?

4. Are there really large numbers of crew leaving or is it "refer to question 1"?

I'm looking for personal experience and not so much, "I've got a mate who knows someone who heard....". Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all for your time.


Please PM me if you feel you would like to discuss further.

Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 30th Jul 2006 at 02:57.
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Old 30th Jul 2006, 02:21
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Do not come to Emirates it is a terrible place to work for! And the Moslims are not nice to live with!
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Old 30th Jul 2006, 05:07
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You might get a few non-emotive answers at http://www.anzauae.org/

As for the first reply, I'd be guessing the poster has yet to turn thirteen.
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Old 30th Jul 2006, 05:39
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Some opinions

I have lived in Dubai for the last year and a half. I like it. I feel safe there and the locals really don't care about ex-pats one way or another unless you get out of line. Don't drink & drive, don't insult a local, behave yourself.

Having a family there is fine but expect to pay a lot for education.

I don't fly for Emirates so cannot comment on their arrangements for their employees.

Lots of nice restaurants, hot in the summer but otherwise, a great temperate climate. The landscape is boring of course if you like trees and hills. Don't bring a dog but cats are okay.

Like most places, life is what you make it and that is certainly true for Dubai. You can be bored and resentful, or you can make friends and have a nice social environment.

If you want to know more, send me a private message.
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Old 30th Jul 2006, 06:21
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Hi
1. Are things really as bad as everybody says or is it just a chance for people to vent their spleens anonymously?
My Ans: A lot of people do vent their anger here as it is the only way out here to do it. There are no unions, so take the terms and conditions or leave is the attitude of the company. The law here is also a law unto itself, it can be seen as rather strict in ways (and biased to the locals), but in other ways the police seem to do nothing (ie prevent treacherous driving on the main highway). Generally education good, weather from Oct to May good, health good, money OK. There are about 1500 pilots now with a small minority leaving. You would expect some to leave, requirements to go home either family or had enough of the M East. Also a new type experience here allows better jobs elsewhere and again peoplpe move on.
2. I can read from the EK website their terms and conditions but how do you find living in Dubai with young children and a family?
My Ans: As an F/O with a family you will not save much and you will look at about 5+ yrs now to get a command as a good guess. There is a reasonable amount of things to do here now with a family and its up to you what you get out of it by how much you embrace it and get on with living the expat life.
3. Does your wife/ partner find it easy while you're away? Is there a reasonable support network amongst wives etc. or is it every man for himself?
My Ans: Most of the wives have friends within EK or from the kids school or other links. The wives tend to get on well in Dubai, it is of course all down to how much your wife puts in, as to how much she gets from the people around her. You have got to also be careful though not to live ontop of each other at times. You tend to find that without extended family here, friendships are a little stronger than they would be at home. Remember there are a lot of nationalities here, so it will seem a bit like a home from home seeing so many fellow nationals around you.
4. Are there really large numbers of crew leaving or is it "refer to question 1"?
My Ans: As in 1. This place (LIKE ALL PLACES) has its problems and like all places people move on. In my knowledge a company of this size looses no more pilots than any other similar sized company.
I'm looking for personal experience and not so much, "I've got a mate who knows someone who heard....". Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all for your time.
Been here a while now, got to see Dubai build and become more exciting for the expat with more things to do. Bond is 3 years, but if you have often thought it would be a good move then give it a go or you will spend the next 30 or so wondering if you should have done it. Getting widebody experience can only do you a favour to help your career also, as you say that your current options are becoming less. Yes there are many search options here, but as you know sometimes the truth is not always what is written and there are some angry people around here at times.
Good luck with your decision. It is a big choice to make and all I can say it that for the MAJORITY of pilots at EK it was a reasonably good move. If 1500 guys didn't like it then these forums would be swamped I'm sure.
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Old 30th Jul 2006, 06:43
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Thanks for the answers gents. This is great stuff. Really helpful. Keep it coming please!!!
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Old 30th Jul 2006, 07:46
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You come from one of the greatest places on Earth, unfortunately you wont realise this till you live here.
Maybe you should consider a career change in Aus rather than exiling your family.................
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Old 30th Jul 2006, 07:50
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Sweeping statements that the "majority think it was a good move" do no favours to anyone looking for help.

Silence is not approval .

1500 pilots are happy??? Find that hard to believe ,admittedly based on my own personal experience..

Emirates is a financial trap for many people, almost half of our pilots are still bonded, out of he other half, many are in their last few years till retirement and a move is not a good option, we also have lots of white Africans who would love to go home, same for the canucks..but who to???

We have lost a large number of the people who can move easily, out of the rest, well we have lost quite few of them too..

Being an expat has a certain amount of inertia attached to it, once you are here it is difficult to move. Family to uproot, the actual cost of the move in and out to be factored into the equation, but as the other post says "still they move" , despite of the factors I have mentioned.

Financially it has been a black hole for me, and that is with the prospect of command fairly soon..

Guys joining now , at best guess will be 5 years to command , 5 years on F/o's wages would be a real struggle, not impossible but why put yourself and family through it, like most of us you have no doubt had financial hardship in your career, why do it again voluntarily??

Dubai is what you make of it, same as any place.
Day to day living is survivable for most, apart form traffic, that is not survivable for all ...It's just that when you have to deal with any form of "management" in EK, or any sort of officialdom that involves Locals/Nationals .It can very,very frustrating .It's very hard to keep your cool, at least with our own management you wont end up in jail for being "rude" to them...just lose you profit share

Dubai is built on one premiss..."Fleece foreigners for money...".....it saves the locals from having to work..
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Old 30th Jul 2006, 18:05
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Gday Digger

life is ok in Dubai....wife and kids love it. a bit hot but so is Darwin. Traffic is S#@t. cars are cheap. petrol is still cheaper than downundy......but schools are very expensive ....food is very expensive....eating out is very expensive.....buying booze is a ripp off.....and an fo salary is just enough to keep you hanging on for the next bonus.

Roster has been ok as an FO on the Bus I am averaging 80hrs a month and get leave during off peak times which suits at the moment.

Some guys are doing more and are getting very tired...........the flying is interesting and the company is going through its growth pains.

Flying Standby to Aus is a nightmare as all flights to all Aus ports are chocker...so dont rely on commuting back.

come and look at Dubai before you make the big move and make sure its for you

145 has a few points you may want to consider.

TR
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Old 31st Jul 2006, 05:13
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"1. Are things really as bad as everybody says or is it just a chance for people to vent their spleens anonymously?"

and

2. "Sweeping statements that the "majority think it was a good move" do no favours to anyone looking for help."

Goes to prove just how warped the information is on prune.

DirectAnywhere has made a "sweeping assumption" that "everybody says things are really bad".

Jack Schidt has stated his opinion by saying that "the majority think it was a good move". At least he has offered some degree of qualification with his remarks about the 1500 that aren't writing here.

Silence means that the majority can't be bothered with some of the Cr*p that is written here.

People will like this place to varying degrees, I have my opinion and keep it to myself because I see no point in ranting or raving here.
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Old 1st Aug 2006, 05:59
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Just to add my 2 cents worth.
Came from a couple of small islands 3 hrs east of you, did 3 years as an F/O and have done 5 yrs total.
Dubai is what you make it, we did alright as an F/O managed to save and travel with 2 kids. EK cover most of the education. Did not live like monks, but were careful. You can go for dinner and spend 150 Dhs or 500
The traffic is bad unless you grew up in latin America or southern europe or a large asian city, but it is managable, just need to allow time and plan ahead.
Support will be what u make it. Come here with the attitude that dubai s***ks and it will!! come with the intention to suck the good things out of it, travel, expose your family to a wonderful multicultural experience ( which means the good and the bad), to save but not to go without and you will enjoy.
U should come and check the place. What ever u decide, do not look back over your shoulder, the grass is always greener, but it is still just grass.
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Old 1st Aug 2006, 11:07
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Enildoc said

"People will like this place to varying degrees, I have my opinion and keep it to myself because I see no point in ranting or raving here."

In which case you made no real comment and so keep your opinions to yourself, why post here if your best advice is meant for yourself.

A lot more people read these forums than you think, but not so many are bothered to post. If there was a real negative answer to this thread then as there are many Aus EK pilots then I am sure there would be many more posts as the Aussies like to verbally vent their opinions. Remember, its more for their benefit than yours mate.

Time to get back to the thread without petty anonymous ranting.
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 03:13
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Just wondering if any of you Aus Expat gents would have a wife who'd be willing to communicate with Mrs. DA via email so she would be able to ask some questions.

She's got a heap that I really can't help with and would appreciate it if she could get some answers "from the horse's mouth" as it were.

Thanks.
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 03:58
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Just looking for Mr Ed's email now......
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 04:42
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Yeah thanks. About as helpful as your last reply....
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 05:48
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Worth a read for Mrs DA.

http://www.expatwoman.com/
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 05:50
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Suggest she tries www.expatwoman.com and go to the Dubai board. Plenty of info on there and probably a better forum for her to ask questions about things which will concern her.
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Old 3rd Aug 2006, 09:33
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And a real thank you to Jack and Sandy. I appreciate the link.

Cheers.
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Old 4th Aug 2006, 12:09
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DirectAnywhere, Did you take the job?
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Old 4th Aug 2006, 12:23
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Check it out for yourself

The best way for you to evaluate the place is come over to DXB yourself preferably with the wife for a little longer than the 3 day interview. Leave the kids at home (if possible) as it is not easy to see it all and get a feel for the place with the kids. Look at the cost of living closely as it is not easy for a family to survive on an F/O's wage especially for up to 5 years and with inflation out of control.
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