Emirates. Decision on F/O Position.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Building Site
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New Policy explained..
Ok, here we go..
You can build towards your requirements while flying EK (as mensaboy pointed out, it used to be different, but changed about 2 months ago)
The time criteria still stand though, so that's 18 months in the company for a accelerated.
Now the little loophole they created unofficially: (and I know it sounds complicated)
According to the FOM, at 10.000TT (with the needed previous command time) you are ok for a DEC position. SO if you reach the 10000hrs in the book, you don't have to wait for your 18 months anymore. Of course, EK is now advertising for DEC's with 8000TT, so únoficially' you will get to the criteria when you have 8000TT. The only difference in the unofficial policy is that for DEC you need 3000hrs command on +55t, for accelerated you need 2000 of those hours. (Done within 12 months prior to joining EK)
So things are a bit messed up here, no one really knows anymore what the criteria are since EK is not folowing the published career path as published in the FOM anymore.
Same for the order of upgrades, officially this is:
1. 6000TT and 3 years in EK
If no available or eligible F/O's that meet 1:
2. 8000TT and 1.5 years in EK and 2000hrs command on +55t (accelerated criteria)
If no available or eligible F/O's that meet 2:
3. 10000TT and 3000hrs command on +55t (DEC criteria)
Again, and I can't stress this enough, this is the official policy as published in the FOM, but since about 1 month, EK upgrades almost ad hoc. On Airbus, lots of guys with case 1 waiting, but being bypassed by guys in case 2, AGAINST THE FOM...
MR8
You can build towards your requirements while flying EK (as mensaboy pointed out, it used to be different, but changed about 2 months ago)
The time criteria still stand though, so that's 18 months in the company for a accelerated.
Now the little loophole they created unofficially: (and I know it sounds complicated)
According to the FOM, at 10.000TT (with the needed previous command time) you are ok for a DEC position. SO if you reach the 10000hrs in the book, you don't have to wait for your 18 months anymore. Of course, EK is now advertising for DEC's with 8000TT, so únoficially' you will get to the criteria when you have 8000TT. The only difference in the unofficial policy is that for DEC you need 3000hrs command on +55t, for accelerated you need 2000 of those hours. (Done within 12 months prior to joining EK)
So things are a bit messed up here, no one really knows anymore what the criteria are since EK is not folowing the published career path as published in the FOM anymore.
Same for the order of upgrades, officially this is:
1. 6000TT and 3 years in EK
If no available or eligible F/O's that meet 1:
2. 8000TT and 1.5 years in EK and 2000hrs command on +55t (accelerated criteria)
If no available or eligible F/O's that meet 2:
3. 10000TT and 3000hrs command on +55t (DEC criteria)
Again, and I can't stress this enough, this is the official policy as published in the FOM, but since about 1 month, EK upgrades almost ad hoc. On Airbus, lots of guys with case 1 waiting, but being bypassed by guys in case 2, AGAINST THE FOM...
MR8
You are correct Mr8 but also case 3 is going on the 777 as well as the case 2 why do you not mention them.
As well as the fact a large number of DECs has been found and is going to delay some fast tracks................
As well as the fact a large number of DECs has been found and is going to delay some fast tracks................
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fast track
Thanks MR8.. Your info is appreciated. I m confused though. I have got colleagues flying for EK and some of them agree with the policy u stated where as some of them are not aware of it. Infact one of them stated u need to join EK with 8000tt. He says there is no writtten policy to this effect. The reason i m so eager to know this info is because i m due for an interview and i have got 7500 tt and 2600 command time. I dont know which boat i m sailing in. Ha Ha ha
Cheers MR8 . U r a good man.
Cheers MR8 . U r a good man.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Building Site
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The policy stated in the FOM is probably as your friend claims.
End 2005, EK published FCI 2005-131, valid as from 1 Jan 2006.
Again, this is the policy today, it might be different tomorrow and will probably change again next week or so... EK management has no long term view and only short term solutions, with the known results.
MR8
End 2005, EK published FCI 2005-131, valid as from 1 Jan 2006.
ACCELERATED COMMAND CRITERIA – ON SAME TYPE
The criteria as listed in the Operations Manual – Part A remains unchanged; however, the minimum 8000
hours total time will now be amended to include flying hours experienced in Emirates.
The criteria as listed in the Operations Manual – Part A remains unchanged; however, the minimum 8000
hours total time will now be amended to include flying hours experienced in Emirates.
MR8
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The best you can do, is keep an open mind. What ever the policy it will change as history has proven. For the better or worse?? EK and the UAE is a gamble for expats, make an informed decision and try to sift out the good info from the bad. DEC's are a cotentious issue with all F/Os in any airline.
One thing is sure about all pilots we are trained to complain about things that upset us and feel that is our god given right to fix it, unfortunately we are not trained how to turn it of and go with the flow. If you want to survive the Gulf you will need this skill.
If EK had secure contracts, unions fighting for our rights and demands it could not survive the rapid expansion that drives it. You just have to suck it in and keep your head down. When you have had enough of the crappp you just move on. simple really.
Commands will come to all those who can survive and are good enough. Many high hour expat F/Os have failed command upgrades for good reasons, there is a lot to learn with such a vast network of destinations and you need to have your sh_t sorted out.
Three years or four years is not long at all, and certainly not worth getting stressed out over in my opinion. Especially if you are getting close to this time in EK, Relax guys, there will be more than enough stress comming your way soon, don't blow the opportunities that will be presented to you.
One thing is sure about all pilots we are trained to complain about things that upset us and feel that is our god given right to fix it, unfortunately we are not trained how to turn it of and go with the flow. If you want to survive the Gulf you will need this skill.
If EK had secure contracts, unions fighting for our rights and demands it could not survive the rapid expansion that drives it. You just have to suck it in and keep your head down. When you have had enough of the crappp you just move on. simple really.
Commands will come to all those who can survive and are good enough. Many high hour expat F/Os have failed command upgrades for good reasons, there is a lot to learn with such a vast network of destinations and you need to have your sh_t sorted out.
Three years or four years is not long at all, and certainly not worth getting stressed out over in my opinion. Especially if you are getting close to this time in EK, Relax guys, there will be more than enough stress comming your way soon, don't blow the opportunities that will be presented to you.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Endiloc
Thanks mate.
If I could remember what I'd been drinking I would recommend it to everyone.
This whole F/O upgrade thing is tragically important to those involved but once it is over and you become a Captain, it's amaizing how quickly you forget.
Consiquently the same old anxiety issues arise over and over again with each new batch of F/Os. If you step back in time with Prune you can read almost identical threads occuring every few months for the past 6 years or so. The good point is that almost all of those who complained (rightfully so) then are now Widebody Captains flying great aircraft in a challenging, diversified environment. That means a great deal to me, I enjoy my job, and overall my family and I still enjoy Dubai. Otherwise we would not still be here.
Those of you who may be thinking of comming here must realise that nothing is guaranteed, but then you have to admit that no matter how strong your union, or westernized your present airline is, unfortunately they can not guarantee anything either.
Any F/O working here has one of the highest probabillities of upgrading to a wide body command in a realistically short time than any other place on the planet that I am aware of.
It took me 16 years with other airlines and 3 1/2 with EK, it is worth the waite in my opinion. Nothing quite like turning up to work and taking a big jet out for a cruize!
If I could remember what I'd been drinking I would recommend it to everyone.
This whole F/O upgrade thing is tragically important to those involved but once it is over and you become a Captain, it's amaizing how quickly you forget.
Consiquently the same old anxiety issues arise over and over again with each new batch of F/Os. If you step back in time with Prune you can read almost identical threads occuring every few months for the past 6 years or so. The good point is that almost all of those who complained (rightfully so) then are now Widebody Captains flying great aircraft in a challenging, diversified environment. That means a great deal to me, I enjoy my job, and overall my family and I still enjoy Dubai. Otherwise we would not still be here.
Those of you who may be thinking of comming here must realise that nothing is guaranteed, but then you have to admit that no matter how strong your union, or westernized your present airline is, unfortunately they can not guarantee anything either.
Any F/O working here has one of the highest probabillities of upgrading to a wide body command in a realistically short time than any other place on the planet that I am aware of.
It took me 16 years with other airlines and 3 1/2 with EK, it is worth the waite in my opinion. Nothing quite like turning up to work and taking a big jet out for a cruize!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Joobs
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by yardman
...they recently changed the policy. You are in fact allowed to count your time at EK towards meeting the Accelerated Command requirements......and I know at least one person who was short a few hundred hours total time, and who now qualifies.
You come to EK with a lot of command time under your belt but not enough total time for Accel. Command.
So you sit in the RHS as FO for 6-9 months until you have built up more time as a First Officer, so that your previous command time will enable you to be promoted to Captain faster than otherwise????
And this makes sense? Lucky I'm not in management (or am I???) because I could never dream up such a dunder-headed, fcuked-up concept as that no matter how long I warmed a desk...
Anyway I'm still not sure why everyone is so happy with the Accel. program but so against the DEC program. Same end result as far as I'm concerned. Qualified FOs being leap-frogged. The same guys who complain bitterly about DECs are happy to jump ahead via Accelerated Command. Smacks of hypocrisy.
Originally Posted by shockwave
Many high hour expat F/Os have failed command upgrades for good reasons
