Wall Street Journal on Expat Pilots (including EK)
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For those of you who arent EK and are wondering why we are upset it is because it WAS a great job only 2-3 years ago. Since then Ts and Cs have been continually ratcheted downwards. We have seen DECs introduced (who although not unprecedented in EK history) have interfered with the career progression of very capable and experienced FOs. Many of the said DECs are marginal at best and many have less RELEVANT experience than our FOs. For the guys who want to come to EK the threads here are a warning to you. Dont expect to be treated as you will be told you will be. If you are told 3-4 years to Command take it with a grain of salt.
Dont expect to be treated like a VP as Brian states in his missive; even as a Captain that is not the case. I can only imagine that US Airways was a **** employer and a **** job if he is so happy here. I bet (which is illegal in the UAE) if he was recalled he would be off like a whore's drawers.
Dont expect to be treated like a VP as Brian states in his missive; even as a Captain that is not the case. I can only imagine that US Airways was a **** employer and a **** job if he is so happy here. I bet (which is illegal in the UAE) if he was recalled he would be off like a whore's drawers.
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Brian Murray would not have even considered Emirates if everything was ok at US Airways. I doubt that he even knew where Dubai was. Had he stayed at US Airways then I am certain that he would never have supported the recruitment of DECs into the airline. Brian, if I am wrong, then please send me a private message.
Everyone seems to have forgotten the private email sent by a certain South African DEC / Management pilot a few years back that told his mates in SQ that they should apply, DECs are on the way lads! Come over, you may even get a management job like me!! When the EK senior management found out, he offered his resignation, which was not accepted. But he did lose his role as head of training.
Today the same basic message is being written again, but this time supported by the company on the front page of the Wll Street Journal!! How times have changed.
Everyone seems to have forgotten the private email sent by a certain South African DEC / Management pilot a few years back that told his mates in SQ that they should apply, DECs are on the way lads! Come over, you may even get a management job like me!! When the EK senior management found out, he offered his resignation, which was not accepted. But he did lose his role as head of training.
Today the same basic message is being written again, but this time supported by the company on the front page of the Wll Street Journal!! How times have changed.
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Hello Guys and donpiz,
I am not ek but have a few interest in the gulf and have found this thread fascinating.Did I read somewhere that he was an f/o for all but 4 of his years at USAIR, and then on 737. (probably not even full glass, and then only efis map) It would be funny of it wasnt so outrageous. I'm not against DEC as a policy ( exhausting qualified fos at ek notwithstanding) but you would think a little bit of relevant command experience would be appropiate.
There are many like this chap, (including a brit aquaintance doing the same sort of thing at RYR). They make scousers look shy, and most people nauseous.About as sincere as a Kmart checkout girl Its just the yank self affirmation, centre of the universe must express everything, cultural way. Maybe they should put him in charge of radio phraseology, then we can hear "emirates 95 checkin in at 35oh smooth ride" Keep the vitriol coming its making my day. Guy sounds like a C0CK
I am not ek but have a few interest in the gulf and have found this thread fascinating.Did I read somewhere that he was an f/o for all but 4 of his years at USAIR, and then on 737. (probably not even full glass, and then only efis map) It would be funny of it wasnt so outrageous. I'm not against DEC as a policy ( exhausting qualified fos at ek notwithstanding) but you would think a little bit of relevant command experience would be appropiate.
There are many like this chap, (including a brit aquaintance doing the same sort of thing at RYR). They make scousers look shy, and most people nauseous.About as sincere as a Kmart checkout girl Its just the yank self affirmation, centre of the universe must express everything, cultural way. Maybe they should put him in charge of radio phraseology, then we can hear "emirates 95 checkin in at 35oh smooth ride" Keep the vitriol coming its making my day. Guy sounds like a C0CK
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Since then Ts and Cs have been continually ratcheted downwards
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B.M. Likes Publicity check this out
Hey guys do a quick google search on Brian Murry and see what you come up with....must be more than a couple of news paper articles....
Seems News Paper Articles are right up his alley
you can check the link here
The point has already been made but the WSJ article has EK damage control written all over it and had must have gone through Corporate Communications before given the stamp of approval.
Shame the WSJ did not interview their fellow Country Man on the EK B-777 fleet who was well and truly screwed over and we all found out just how well the no fault reporting clause works here in EK.
The authors give the opinion that ALL Americans are in a continual state of ecstasy working with EK and they made the correct choice.
All ways 2 or 3 sides to a story, the WSJ article did not bother digging deeper and showing the dark side of EK just to give a more balanced opinion, but hey why let some facts get in the way of a good story.
There's allways at least one American DEC here in EK who knows that the WSJ is a P.R. exercise
(edited to correct few spelling errors)
Seems News Paper Articles are right up his alley
you can check the link here
The point has already been made but the WSJ article has EK damage control written all over it and had must have gone through Corporate Communications before given the stamp of approval.
Shame the WSJ did not interview their fellow Country Man on the EK B-777 fleet who was well and truly screwed over and we all found out just how well the no fault reporting clause works here in EK.
The authors give the opinion that ALL Americans are in a continual state of ecstasy working with EK and they made the correct choice.
All ways 2 or 3 sides to a story, the WSJ article did not bother digging deeper and showing the dark side of EK just to give a more balanced opinion, but hey why let some facts get in the way of a good story.
There's allways at least one American DEC here in EK who knows that the WSJ is a P.R. exercise
(edited to correct few spelling errors)
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Uplock
Well spotted. Seems like BRIAN is a serial spokesperson for all sorts of issues.
I also found an article from two days ago in USAtoday. So it looks like there is no doubt it was a paid gig by EK to try and counter the facts that get out there via Pprune and the like
Well done prooners for exposing BRIAN as an attention seeking management wannabee.
I also found an article from two days ago in USAtoday. So it looks like there is no doubt it was a paid gig by EK to try and counter the facts that get out there via Pprune and the like
Well done prooners for exposing BRIAN as an attention seeking management wannabee.
Last edited by Vorsicht; 8th May 2006 at 08:28.
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Gents,
Please head over to the USA today weblog and post a comment. They moderate them, so be nice
http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/0....html#comments
SyB
Please head over to the USA today weblog and post a comment. They moderate them, so be nice
http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/0....html#comments
SyB
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I always find it somewhat amusing when folks start bleating that Emirates T&Cs and that Management attitudes have only been deteriorating and eroding for the last 2-3 years, and coincidently it was only the 2-3 years since they joined.
At the time they joined it was a fantastic job...best one on the face of the earth..... only since then
Fact and reality is that Emirates has, as an employer, deliberately allowed flight crew working conditions to decline for more than 10 years now.
People have been warned of this long term trend many, many times now so if you have no choice but to join Emirates, fine , but don't keep making out that worsening conditions at EK are some new phenomenon that only manifests itself 2-3 years after you signed on for the "perfect job".
At the time they joined it was a fantastic job...best one on the face of the earth..... only since then
Fact and reality is that Emirates has, as an employer, deliberately allowed flight crew working conditions to decline for more than 10 years now.
People have been warned of this long term trend many, many times now so if you have no choice but to join Emirates, fine , but don't keep making out that worsening conditions at EK are some new phenomenon that only manifests itself 2-3 years after you signed on for the "perfect job".
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Originally Posted by radnav
Fact and reality is that Emirates has, as an employer, deliberately allowed flight crew working conditions to decline for more than 10 years now.
People have been warned of this long term trend many, many times now so if you have no choice but to join Emirates, fine , but don't keep making out that worsening conditions at EK are some new phenomenon that only manifests itself 2-3 years after you signed on for the "perfect job".
People have been warned of this long term trend many, many times now so if you have no choice but to join Emirates, fine , but don't keep making out that worsening conditions at EK are some new phenomenon that only manifests itself 2-3 years after you signed on for the "perfect job".
While I agree that the slide began much more than 3 years ago, it has certainly accelerated in the last few years. Go back 3-4 years and look at the changes in management that occurred then - both at the top and in Flight Ops. While never great, that was when things got kind of aggressive (IMHO).
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Sure I agree its an exponential decline that we are in...somewhat of a death spiral but its not new here, and for many at EK with 10 or more years of service the rot set in a long time ago...of course the million dollar question is will it ever end?....just ask those who have been here for a while......not newbies who speak from a privileged and opportunistic position and with an oh so obvious agenda.
You know I must be a sad old git really...every day I wake up and ask myself just what and why the hell am I still here.....
You know I must be a sad old git really...every day I wake up and ask myself just what and why the hell am I still here.....
Apparently there was a time when things got better rather than worse.
The introduction in the mid 90s of roster bidding, threshold for overtime payment, annual bonus and additional staff tickets improved a salary package that was already above industry average (mainly because of the tax free factor).
This package was more or less left alone until around a year after CKs arrival (02-03?). Maybe the odd nibble but nothing significant.
CKs first action was to wade through the Trainers Ts & Cs leading to large scale resignations from the training department.
Following this debacle he was reliably reported to have said that he was going to make the life of the Line pilots so miserable that they would all want to join Training.
And he sure had a good stab at that, starting 3 or 4 years ago and perpetuated by his successor.
Work still in progress bringing us up to today.
The introduction in the mid 90s of roster bidding, threshold for overtime payment, annual bonus and additional staff tickets improved a salary package that was already above industry average (mainly because of the tax free factor).
This package was more or less left alone until around a year after CKs arrival (02-03?). Maybe the odd nibble but nothing significant.
CKs first action was to wade through the Trainers Ts & Cs leading to large scale resignations from the training department.
Following this debacle he was reliably reported to have said that he was going to make the life of the Line pilots so miserable that they would all want to join Training.
And he sure had a good stab at that, starting 3 or 4 years ago and perpetuated by his successor.
Work still in progress bringing us up to today.
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Maybe the odd nibble but nothing significant
Just one example of many, as has been said many times now; decline is nothing new in Emirates.
Didn't know about the ERP changes.
Perhaps it's fair to say that at least there were some positives amongst the negatives back in the mid 90s. Not the case now.
Excuse the thread creep brian, although you're probably looking forward to the end of your 15 minutes of fame.
Perhaps it's fair to say that at least there were some positives amongst the negatives back in the mid 90s. Not the case now.
Excuse the thread creep brian, although you're probably looking forward to the end of your 15 minutes of fame.
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Mack Tuck.
Thanks for the brief to us non-EK. It is much easier to understand the anger when it is spelled out with words by an adult and not with puke from a childish.
Anyway gents, I have a question.
I am not flying for EK myself, but believe me, this does not mean that there are not issues in my company as well.
Do you guys think that EK is much different from the rest of todays airlines in the world (if we rule out BA and Virgin)?? - and why??
Outside the sandpit I can tell you that we have very similar problems in the UK companys!!
And next question, when you guys leave EK to something "better" (read different music but same taste), will you then start in the back of the queue as F/O's as right is, or will you try to get in as DEC??
Quod Boy: I feel very sorry for you. If you think you are special because you work in a big airline, then it just shows how stupid and unintelligent you are. Big planes does not make you more important than those flying small planes. We all have a mortgage to pay and we all have responsibilities when flying.
You are really a looser if you are serious about your comment!!
To the rest of you gents and ladies: I really do understand the frustration when conditions are going the wrong way, and i think as you that it is wrong. BUT, please show me a place where conditions are going towards the old times conditions.
It is history, sorry to say
Thanks for the brief to us non-EK. It is much easier to understand the anger when it is spelled out with words by an adult and not with puke from a childish.
Anyway gents, I have a question.
I am not flying for EK myself, but believe me, this does not mean that there are not issues in my company as well.
Do you guys think that EK is much different from the rest of todays airlines in the world (if we rule out BA and Virgin)?? - and why??
Outside the sandpit I can tell you that we have very similar problems in the UK companys!!
And next question, when you guys leave EK to something "better" (read different music but same taste), will you then start in the back of the queue as F/O's as right is, or will you try to get in as DEC??
Quod Boy: I feel very sorry for you. If you think you are special because you work in a big airline, then it just shows how stupid and unintelligent you are. Big planes does not make you more important than those flying small planes. We all have a mortgage to pay and we all have responsibilities when flying.
You are really a looser if you are serious about your comment!!
To the rest of you gents and ladies: I really do understand the frustration when conditions are going the wrong way, and i think as you that it is wrong. BUT, please show me a place where conditions are going towards the old times conditions.
It is history, sorry to say
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Originally Posted by Sheikh Your Bootie
Gents,
Please head over to the USA today weblog and post a comment. They moderate them, so be nice
http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/0....html#comments
SyB
Please head over to the USA today weblog and post a comment. They moderate them, so be nice
http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/0....html#comments
SyB
You just don't get it do you, Tartan guy.
The general consensus and complaint is that this gentleman went into print in a major publication with a largely fictitious slant on life in Emirates.
So a number of people have gone into print on this forum pointing out his errors.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
The general consensus and complaint is that this gentleman went into print in a major publication with a largely fictitious slant on life in Emirates.
So a number of people have gone into print on this forum pointing out his errors.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
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Tartan a very well written defence of Brian. Don't bring in personal lives of pilots into a debate about EK i can assure you there are many pilots in EK with family problems this is not the topic or forum to air them.
Brian has gone out of his way to recruit DEC's into Emirates knowing full well this will effect many of the first officers he flies with every day ( and i would even guess that some of them have had major family trauma).
He may be very happy in EK he probably joined on more money than a 5 year captain it does not mean that he should use his privilaged position to undermine his collegues. That is the reason he has got such a response on PPRUNE the only place where EK pilots can air their grievences.
Lets keep the sob stories off aviation forums.
Brian has gone out of his way to recruit DEC's into Emirates knowing full well this will effect many of the first officers he flies with every day ( and i would even guess that some of them have had major family trauma).
He may be very happy in EK he probably joined on more money than a 5 year captain it does not mean that he should use his privilaged position to undermine his collegues. That is the reason he has got such a response on PPRUNE the only place where EK pilots can air their grievences.
Lets keep the sob stories off aviation forums.
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Tartan guy, what does your post have to do with the price of beans in Germany?
The fact is that happy or not, Brian like all of us have many faces: The one we show, the one people see, the one we want people to see, the one we realy have, and the one we think we have.
Just because you saw one face of his which you liked, does not mean that there are not others at the same time that either you or us do not like
Brian has not made any friends out here after this publicity stunt as he has sh...ed on every ones shoes....
There are many guys in EK who have similar family stories to Brian, and who did not and do not work the PR and management scene to get ahead.
Brian's story is great up to the moment he started cutting corners.
Best of luck to him, I would like to be a fly on his flight deck to see the great atmosphere between him and the FOs.... after his popularity stunt...
The fact is that happy or not, Brian like all of us have many faces: The one we show, the one people see, the one we want people to see, the one we realy have, and the one we think we have.
Just because you saw one face of his which you liked, does not mean that there are not others at the same time that either you or us do not like
Brian has not made any friends out here after this publicity stunt as he has sh...ed on every ones shoes....
There are many guys in EK who have similar family stories to Brian, and who did not and do not work the PR and management scene to get ahead.
Brian's story is great up to the moment he started cutting corners.
Best of luck to him, I would like to be a fly on his flight deck to see the great atmosphere between him and the FOs.... after his popularity stunt...
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Brian's personal family life is irrelevent to any discussion here and is a very poor and desperate attempt to gain some kind of empathy for him.
To put himself up as some kind of expert and a figurehead for The Emirates Career Pilot is arrogant and offensive and shows very poor judgement on his behalf.
Just what credibility does a very newbie Direct Entry Captain, who slid into an opportunistic position at Emirates think he has on the world stage to be giving out career advice.
Amongst other reasons this may have seemed to him a great way to publicly stick it right back up his hated US Airways, on their home turf, and seek some kind of personal gratification but unfortunately it also mocks and belittles his supposed new colleagues.
To put himself up as some kind of expert and a figurehead for The Emirates Career Pilot is arrogant and offensive and shows very poor judgement on his behalf.
Just what credibility does a very newbie Direct Entry Captain, who slid into an opportunistic position at Emirates think he has on the world stage to be giving out career advice.
Amongst other reasons this may have seemed to him a great way to publicly stick it right back up his hated US Airways, on their home turf, and seek some kind of personal gratification but unfortunately it also mocks and belittles his supposed new colleagues.