Wall Street Journal on Expat Pilots (including EK)
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Comparing EK to a failing airline in the US is like comparing a shwarma to a sh
t sandwich....a bit of a stretch oh windy one. As for the article, when ever I've read something in the press about an issue I know about, it is always wrong. So If Capt Happy says its crap here, what will they print? Either way, if you end up in the paper, for any reason, you are fair game for some sledging. Lighten up Tartan Guy.
t sandwich....a bit of a stretch oh windy one. As for the article, when ever I've read something in the press about an issue I know about, it is always wrong. So If Capt Happy says its crap here, what will they print? Either way, if you end up in the paper, for any reason, you are fair game for some sledging. Lighten up Tartan Guy.
Last edited by max AB; 8th May 2006 at 19:27.
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Tarten Guy
You have completely lost touch with reality. I cannot see the point of your post at all. It looks to me as though you have nothing left to defend him with.
Brian has accepted the role of being the face of the American dream here at EK. With that, he endorses every word that was published, which was obviously from the PR dept. Never ever trust management!
The market is tough and its getting harder and harder to recruit the guys EK want. Emirates has to face the harsh reality that pilots want to be paid for what they do. The cost to company to recruit the right guy has a premium on it.
We as Pilot group are being screwed Tarten Guy!!! You might like it but most of us dont.
It looks to me like anything is better than what you all had at US Air and I congratulate you for enjoying Dubai and being happy....dont change.
But if you think that the majority of EK pilots are going to continue to put up with the outdated draconian management style that prevails here you will be flying single pilot in no time.
It appears ED seems to be making a few changes around here. We all know how useful TCAS has been. Lets hope for something.
In the meantime if you are a mate of this guy Brian ask him "What the hell was he thinking"
TR
You have completely lost touch with reality. I cannot see the point of your post at all. It looks to me as though you have nothing left to defend him with.
Brian has accepted the role of being the face of the American dream here at EK. With that, he endorses every word that was published, which was obviously from the PR dept. Never ever trust management!
The market is tough and its getting harder and harder to recruit the guys EK want. Emirates has to face the harsh reality that pilots want to be paid for what they do. The cost to company to recruit the right guy has a premium on it.
We as Pilot group are being screwed Tarten Guy!!! You might like it but most of us dont.
It looks to me like anything is better than what you all had at US Air and I congratulate you for enjoying Dubai and being happy....dont change.
But if you think that the majority of EK pilots are going to continue to put up with the outdated draconian management style that prevails here you will be flying single pilot in no time.
It appears ED seems to be making a few changes around here. We all know how useful TCAS has been. Lets hope for something.
In the meantime if you are a mate of this guy Brian ask him "What the hell was he thinking"
TR
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Mr. Baedke...expects to begin training next month to become a captain, a process he says could take 2½ years.
Staying in 4 and 5 star hotels, what's BNE then? 3 bloody star that's what
If you hate it here that much, than show some balls and quit
So anyway has anyone bothered to write to the WSJ editor to dispute some of the garbage in this article? If so, please post…
But then I suppose if EK have "bought" some good press coverage using Muzza's shameless trained monkey routine, then the WSJ are hardly likely to print anything that might refute it.
Last edited by Muttley Crew; 8th May 2006 at 22:30.
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I had a dog once, but he died. I still think EK management should get their heads out of their ar..e and regain touch with the reality they are in, and stop resorting to desperate propaganda campains to wow essentially dis-interested party's to the middle east.
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Tartan Guy,
Just a couple of questions in order to clear things up:
1. When your mate Brian "worked at USAirways for 23 years and flew Captain for 20 and over 4 as a check-airman", did he spend that time behind the protection of a seniority system?
2. When Brian was promoted, demoted or furloughed, did all those things happen in strict accordance with a seniority list?
I'm going to have a guess that the answer to the previous questions is yes.
Now, did Brian then completely disregard the seniority list at EK in order to jump the que straight to Captain?
Once again I'm going to say the answer is probably yes.
That my friend is the dictionary definition of a hypocrite. To then publicise his hypocrisy, and indeed attempt to glorify it, shows a startling disregard for his fellow pilots. No F/O who flies with this guy should say anything other than what is operationally required (or perhaps F**k You)! He should be treated with the same contempt he has shown his 'colleagues'.
BTW I'm an F/O for a different airline. This has no effect on me at all. I'm just shocked at the Chutzpa (are Hebrew terms allowed in this forum) and had to comment.
Just a couple of questions in order to clear things up:
1. When your mate Brian "worked at USAirways for 23 years and flew Captain for 20 and over 4 as a check-airman", did he spend that time behind the protection of a seniority system?
2. When Brian was promoted, demoted or furloughed, did all those things happen in strict accordance with a seniority list?
I'm going to have a guess that the answer to the previous questions is yes.
Now, did Brian then completely disregard the seniority list at EK in order to jump the que straight to Captain?
Once again I'm going to say the answer is probably yes.
That my friend is the dictionary definition of a hypocrite. To then publicise his hypocrisy, and indeed attempt to glorify it, shows a startling disregard for his fellow pilots. No F/O who flies with this guy should say anything other than what is operationally required (or perhaps F**k You)! He should be treated with the same contempt he has shown his 'colleagues'.
BTW I'm an F/O for a different airline. This has no effect on me at all. I'm just shocked at the Chutzpa (are Hebrew terms allowed in this forum) and had to comment.
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Tartan Guy
That just about says it all. The yanks have been here two years and now trying to start their own association.
I guess you'll be trying to get a Burger King at CBC next.
On another note. Thanks for taking the heat off all the Aussies, Jarpies and Brits. I think you and BRIAN are going to head the list of people we love to hate for quite some time.
I guess you'll be trying to get a Burger King at CBC next.
On another note. Thanks for taking the heat off all the Aussies, Jarpies and Brits. I think you and BRIAN are going to head the list of people we love to hate for quite some time.
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scoot. U may be closer the truth than u think. Many I/O's are in such positions, Introductions to the best golf clubs/partners etc thru an old air force buddy at the embassy.Worked (s) in africa. Perfect propierty cover.Why else would a bunch of yanks want to move to the middleeat. Bit like a bunch of orthodox jews moving to saudi.
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Tartan Guy
When do you and Mrs Murray's little boy Brian go on the Oprah Winfrey show to bleat about your sufferings to a wider audience?
Your post is pathetic.
Suffering and personal sorrow do not purify, or make one's soul special. Anyone who has ever suffered already knows that.
A wise person would have the integrity and humility to not say one single word about those matters to anyone save one's closest friends or family.
To attempt to exploit tragic circumstances using Mr Murray's personal history and the story of his child is beyond comprehension. Have a little decency and speak to the facts. Do not pimp for sympathy, you emotionally retarded thug.
You seem to want to defend Mrs Murray's little boy Brian... you are tilting at windmills.
Mrs Murray's little boy Brian must face the consequences of his decision to go public with falsehood at the expense of the limited amount of professional currency we have left in this declining profession of ours. All we have left to do battle with is our integrity, murderous stunning truthfulness, and determination. Mr Murray has undermined the first two, but not the latter.
When do you and Mrs Murray's little boy Brian go on the Oprah Winfrey show to bleat about your sufferings to a wider audience?
Your post is pathetic.
Suffering and personal sorrow do not purify, or make one's soul special. Anyone who has ever suffered already knows that.
A wise person would have the integrity and humility to not say one single word about those matters to anyone save one's closest friends or family.
To attempt to exploit tragic circumstances using Mr Murray's personal history and the story of his child is beyond comprehension. Have a little decency and speak to the facts. Do not pimp for sympathy, you emotionally retarded thug.
You seem to want to defend Mrs Murray's little boy Brian... you are tilting at windmills.
Mrs Murray's little boy Brian must face the consequences of his decision to go public with falsehood at the expense of the limited amount of professional currency we have left in this declining profession of ours. All we have left to do battle with is our integrity, murderous stunning truthfulness, and determination. Mr Murray has undermined the first two, but not the latter.
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Originally Posted by Tartan guy
Well, I've made a promise to myself that this will be the last time I will visit or post on this site. I will leave all the "Glass is half-full" guys to drown in their misery and sorrows.
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was tartan guy one of the guys in the video clip posted earlier...perhaps that is why the glass is half full!!!
lets hope he can take a joke
strange thing is it has been deleted again....
anyone know why a comical video clip would be deleted?
lets hope he can take a joke
strange thing is it has been deleted again....
anyone know why a comical video clip would be deleted?
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Tartan Guy
You and your ilk (Brian) have completely missed the point that everyone here is trying to tell you.
Most of the comments here come from people who have been here many years longer than you, so have the credibility of experience at EK.
The point is that the company continues to erode our conditions and we cant do anything about it.
Most of us were happy when we came too. The reason that we are not now is that we are working harder now for less money than when we arrived and our only choice is to laccept it or leave. Nobody particularly likes either of those options, although more and more are choosing the latter.
This will not stop. You are also going to have T+C's reduced with no consultation and no means of redress.
Those of us who have done some time here have found that this forum is about the only useful means of dealing with our management. We can't directly influence their policies, but we can make sure that the real message is getting out there. Sure, much of what Brian says may be technically true, but the fact is that two years ago it was better, and two years before that it was better again. 15 years ago it was comparable to Cathay A scale.
You two are just helping the management continue with their policies. You will get no thanks for it. You too will get screwed at the next round of cuts.
Most of the comments here come from people who have been here many years longer than you, so have the credibility of experience at EK.
The point is that the company continues to erode our conditions and we cant do anything about it.
Most of us were happy when we came too. The reason that we are not now is that we are working harder now for less money than when we arrived and our only choice is to laccept it or leave. Nobody particularly likes either of those options, although more and more are choosing the latter.
This will not stop. You are also going to have T+C's reduced with no consultation and no means of redress.
Those of us who have done some time here have found that this forum is about the only useful means of dealing with our management. We can't directly influence their policies, but we can make sure that the real message is getting out there. Sure, much of what Brian says may be technically true, but the fact is that two years ago it was better, and two years before that it was better again. 15 years ago it was comparable to Cathay A scale.
You two are just helping the management continue with their policies. You will get no thanks for it. You too will get screwed at the next round of cuts.
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Tartan guy,
Nobody has a problem with you or Brian being happy. That is great. People are not happy with the way Brian is trying to get ahead, and with the way that you are defending him.
I like the way you try to change the real point of the posts in the same way the your president tried to mislead the people: "you are either with us or against us". What happened to the initial argument did they have WMD and all the lies that followed since?
Same as the Original Brian question? What the f...k was he thinking when he did an interview which was not authorised by EK to get himself in a VP position? Did he think that people would not see through him? Did he realy believe that it would not come out that he plays golf and socializes with our esteemed management to get a nice comfortable chair?
Brian is smart enough to realize that he cannot stick it till he is 60 and fly the back side of the clock 100 hours a month. He wants a comfortable chair in an office to enjoy his golf game.
That in itself is not bad, but if he wants to do it without anyone having anything to say, then he needs to fall in line and follow procedures and apply through the channels like every one else.
The sad thing is that you and your society has such values that find it ok to do such things, and you think that it is fine to make a mockery of everyone else who has been here before you.
As for big picture training and amazing CRM and safety culture lets not talk about your USair....
This is the issue, and not the happy not happy you try to pull.
Nobbody cares that you like staying on the concierge floor, and nobody cares that you enjoy being driven around. You should consider though that the guy who is driving you around is made to work 18 hours, and besides being unhumane it is also dangerous for your own safety...
What people care about, and what all of you coming from the States seem not to get is the fact that little Brian is willing to sell his soul to get ahead and you find it ok.
Hope this sinks is in your shallow attention span, and that you do not need a repeat again.
Final Closing point. Brian did something which was not upfront and honest to better himself in management's eyes to get a shot for VP position. You try to defend him by giving us a sob story and when that does not work you come back and tell us that you and he are happy and we are not what is wrong with you being happy?
Point, he should not have done what he did if he was a person with integrity, hard working, rule following, respectful of his peers, and greatfull for getting a job after unemployment.... I guess the USair experience did not humble him.
Nobody has a problem with you or Brian being happy. That is great. People are not happy with the way Brian is trying to get ahead, and with the way that you are defending him.
I like the way you try to change the real point of the posts in the same way the your president tried to mislead the people: "you are either with us or against us". What happened to the initial argument did they have WMD and all the lies that followed since?
Same as the Original Brian question? What the f...k was he thinking when he did an interview which was not authorised by EK to get himself in a VP position? Did he think that people would not see through him? Did he realy believe that it would not come out that he plays golf and socializes with our esteemed management to get a nice comfortable chair?
Brian is smart enough to realize that he cannot stick it till he is 60 and fly the back side of the clock 100 hours a month. He wants a comfortable chair in an office to enjoy his golf game.
That in itself is not bad, but if he wants to do it without anyone having anything to say, then he needs to fall in line and follow procedures and apply through the channels like every one else.
The sad thing is that you and your society has such values that find it ok to do such things, and you think that it is fine to make a mockery of everyone else who has been here before you.
As for big picture training and amazing CRM and safety culture lets not talk about your USair....
This is the issue, and not the happy not happy you try to pull.
Nobbody cares that you like staying on the concierge floor, and nobody cares that you enjoy being driven around. You should consider though that the guy who is driving you around is made to work 18 hours, and besides being unhumane it is also dangerous for your own safety...
What people care about, and what all of you coming from the States seem not to get is the fact that little Brian is willing to sell his soul to get ahead and you find it ok.
Hope this sinks is in your shallow attention span, and that you do not need a repeat again.
Final Closing point. Brian did something which was not upfront and honest to better himself in management's eyes to get a shot for VP position. You try to defend him by giving us a sob story and when that does not work you come back and tell us that you and he are happy and we are not what is wrong with you being happy?
Point, he should not have done what he did if he was a person with integrity, hard working, rule following, respectful of his peers, and greatfull for getting a job after unemployment.... I guess the USair experience did not humble him.
Last edited by captainjohndo; 10th May 2006 at 17:00.
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Originally Posted by captainjohndo
Nobody has a problem with you or Brian being happy. That is great. People are not happy with the way Brian is trying to get ahead, and with the way that you are defending him.
I already proved the point that the multiple articles in US newspapers were all reproductions of the WSJ article. It is common for one news agency to sell reprint rights on stories to others.
Goforit
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No doubt in my mind that this is a media exercise by EK PR possibly initiated by Captain Murray (at the golf club) in order to promote EK in the States and by default Captain Murray in Emirates.
Another thread confirms that EK recruitment are active in the US as we write. Perfect timing.
A certain amount of shooting in the foot on Captain Murrays part though.
Shame.
Another thread confirms that EK recruitment are active in the US as we write. Perfect timing.
A certain amount of shooting in the foot on Captain Murrays part though.
Shame.