Operations into Dubai - can they be improved?
Join Date: Feb 2005
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snady
first you offer
then you find all the excuses not to follow through.
not to worry. i'll have a chat to the sim guys and pop you into the sim runs that are just to practice vectoring/holding. no ojt permit required, no contract, acc course etc etc just a chance for you to show me how its done.......
first you offer
Do you want me to replace you
I'm no Gods gift, just professional in my spacing and job.
then you find all the excuses not to follow through.
You should know that people just can't walz into the centre a plug in without an OJT permit, a contract, acc course etc. Stop wasting your time on this subject. I don't have an Area rating and I'm not looking for one either.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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first you offer
Call it excuses or whatever, I just didn't consider the sim since you probably booked it for yourself and a few others
Enough said in this matter I believe. This thread have lost its intension because you and me. Sorry to others but just as a last comment people can read that it isn't only ATC vs Pilots its also ATC vs ATC.
I will stand firm on this one: UAE doesn't foster the sharpest knives in ATC
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Sorry for interrupting your friendly little chat, but could somebody please raise the DXB ATIS antenna? The range is now extremely limited.
As for the single runway ops into DXB, I have only one thing to say; Job well done, ATC! It's a nice and tight operation. The only problems I've encountered have been caused by fellow drivers, not ATC.
Over all, I don't have much to complain about. Sure, speed control can be a bit confusing at times, but that doesn't bother me much. Very seldom do I get long vectors and holding does not happen.
I really don't like the long initial call to DBX arrival, but that’s probably written down as a local requirement somewhere. How hard can it be to do it right?
We want local ATC to operate like European ATC. OK. Shouldn't we operate to the European standard as well? You would NEVER EVER line up in LHR or FRA without being completely ready. You would NEVER EVER sit on the runway for 60 seconds after being cleared for immediate take off on any of those airports. When you're told a speed, you maintain it. You bloody well know you're going to fark it up for somebody if you don't.
Why should operating in and out of DXB be any different?
As for the single runway ops into DXB, I have only one thing to say; Job well done, ATC! It's a nice and tight operation. The only problems I've encountered have been caused by fellow drivers, not ATC.
Over all, I don't have much to complain about. Sure, speed control can be a bit confusing at times, but that doesn't bother me much. Very seldom do I get long vectors and holding does not happen.
I really don't like the long initial call to DBX arrival, but that’s probably written down as a local requirement somewhere. How hard can it be to do it right?
We want local ATC to operate like European ATC. OK. Shouldn't we operate to the European standard as well? You would NEVER EVER line up in LHR or FRA without being completely ready. You would NEVER EVER sit on the runway for 60 seconds after being cleared for immediate take off on any of those airports. When you're told a speed, you maintain it. You bloody well know you're going to fark it up for somebody if you don't.
Why should operating in and out of DXB be any different?
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Nice to see a post from someone who's making a constructive suggestion rather than trading insults. Pity we couldn't just cut out all the name calling posts and stick with the subject of the thread.
I have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised lately at the way DXB Twr has been handling departures lately, squeezing one in between arrivals with absolute minimum tolerances. I was cleared to line up a day or two ago with an A330 at 7 miles final. Wouldn't have happened a few weeks ago. Keep it up gents, and please disregard the comments from those very few EK pilots who unfortunately have dominated this thread.
I have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised lately at the way DXB Twr has been handling departures lately, squeezing one in between arrivals with absolute minimum tolerances. I was cleared to line up a day or two ago with an A330 at 7 miles final. Wouldn't have happened a few weeks ago. Keep it up gents, and please disregard the comments from those very few EK pilots who unfortunately have dominated this thread.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Hey all,
I can see from all the posts /threads on Dubai that NOTHING has changed in the years that i have left. The same pilot bitching and comparing to other ATC units worldwide.
Dubai , unfortunately is governed by the GCAA and that does tie their hands somewhat. So if the operators are that concerned about procedures and delays , etc. they should direct any anger towards them and not at the ATCO's.
We're all out there trying to do what is the best for all concerned and a bit of understanding from both sides tends to make things run just that little bit smoother.
Does EK still send it's pilots to the ATC when they are doing type conversions /ratings??
I can see from all the posts /threads on Dubai that NOTHING has changed in the years that i have left. The same pilot bitching and comparing to other ATC units worldwide.
Dubai , unfortunately is governed by the GCAA and that does tie their hands somewhat. So if the operators are that concerned about procedures and delays , etc. they should direct any anger towards them and not at the ATCO's.
We're all out there trying to do what is the best for all concerned and a bit of understanding from both sides tends to make things run just that little bit smoother.
Does EK still send it's pilots to the ATC when they are doing type conversions /ratings??
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Yakkity....
Whilst GCAA are the administrators, the current flow control requirements (up to 30 miles every arrival at the busier times) are instigated by Dubai.
Their reasons may or may not be justified as it varies from crew to crew and whether the moon is lined up with Jupiter!
At the end of the day whilst we have independant administrations and everybody running their own programs, outdated equipment, not enough staff and everyone operating from different centres....the shambles will continue.
Given the chance for all the coal face controllers to catch up for a beer, wine or spritzer, solve our differences and then given the opportunity to influence management policy we might get things on the rails....
till then we will just have to put up with things deteoriating on a daily basis...
The good news the regional airlines are all expanding at an unmanageble rate and we should be really excited about that!
Their reasons may or may not be justified as it varies from crew to crew and whether the moon is lined up with Jupiter!
At the end of the day whilst we have independant administrations and everybody running their own programs, outdated equipment, not enough staff and everyone operating from different centres....the shambles will continue.
Given the chance for all the coal face controllers to catch up for a beer, wine or spritzer, solve our differences and then given the opportunity to influence management policy we might get things on the rails....
till then we will just have to put up with things deteoriating on a daily basis... The good news the regional airlines are all expanding at an unmanageble rate and we should be really excited about that!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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fox......
Yes i agree with all you say, but the main point i should have brought up is that policy is handed down from GCAA....even though the flow spacing is Dubai's the holds etc were moved by the GCAA and Dubai's airsapce was REDUCED in size when asked for more ....go figure.
Was just trying to say that a better understanding of policy by all would maybe lighten up the die hards.....
You say short staffed , believe the quota for the year is filled ???? Pm me with more info...i'll come back
Was just trying to say that a better understanding of policy by all would maybe lighten up the die hards.....
You say short staffed , believe the quota for the year is filled ???? Pm me with more info...i'll come back
Join Date: Aug 2000
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The quota is based on an academic figure of controllers plucked from the depths of statistics..... Not what the industry norm dictates throughout the real world...
The fact is no position has a permanent planner. If you do use planner on your undermanned crew (ie. less than 6 when it suits) ...then you have ummmm no breaks and God forbid you need 2 planners for the 4 permanent positions!, no stand alone supervisor and 1200- 1300 moves a day with this figure increasing relative to the inflation rate we enjoy here in the Capital!
Ho hum....one of my two buckets is filling up rapidly...
Not what the industry norm dictates throughout the real world...The fact is no position has a permanent planner. If you do use planner on your undermanned crew (ie. less than 6 when it suits) ...then you have ummmm no breaks and God forbid you need 2 planners for the 4 permanent positions!, no stand alone supervisor and 1200- 1300 moves a day with this figure increasing relative to the inflation rate we enjoy here in the Capital!
Ho hum....one of my two buckets is filling up rapidly...
