Dubai: "The City that Cares"
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Join Date: Aug 1998
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Sticker Shock
Those of you trying to make meaningful comparisons between various pilot opportunities might be interested to know what I spent to live in the UAE last year.
Our little family dropped $64,606 US dollars on food, gas, rent, utilities, insurance, car repairs and the other glamorous trappings of the expat lifestyle such as garden hoses and dog food.
That amount does not include any car payment, holidays, major purchases, club memberships or entertaining beyond the occasional movie or takeaway.
That's bare-bones survival, expat style.
Our little family dropped $64,606 US dollars on food, gas, rent, utilities, insurance, car repairs and the other glamorous trappings of the expat lifestyle such as garden hoses and dog food.
That amount does not include any car payment, holidays, major purchases, club memberships or entertaining beyond the occasional movie or takeaway.
That's bare-bones survival, expat style.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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mini...
Dropp's expenses include rent and utilities, so you have to add the utility allowance, which is about 26.000$ for a F/O if I'm not mistaken (still in company accomodation myself..) So that's a total income of approx $84000, so dropp should have been able to save $20000 in one year..
MR8
Dropp's expenses include rent and utilities, so you have to add the utility allowance, which is about 26.000$ for a F/O if I'm not mistaken (still in company accomodation myself..) So that's a total income of approx $84000, so dropp should have been able to save $20000 in one year..
MR8
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Dropp brings up a good point. I've always told people when deciding on a job to look at the bottom line. This holds especially true for expat jobs where the same top line can have dramatically different bottom lines depending on the airline/country/location.
That said, Emirates tends to be one of the better ones when it comes to bottom line. No income tax, no rent, no utilities, subsidized schooling, etc. Inflation has certainly eatin into our bottom line over the last few years. That would hold doubly true for those who have taken the housing allowance and are still renting.
Yet, what perplexes me most is that I saw numerous new hire F.O.s go out and buy the 135,000 Dirham car ( with a loan ), brand new plasma screen TV and surround sound stereo system and then they start complaining that they don't have enough money. Well, duh
TP
That said, Emirates tends to be one of the better ones when it comes to bottom line. No income tax, no rent, no utilities, subsidized schooling, etc. Inflation has certainly eatin into our bottom line over the last few years. That would hold doubly true for those who have taken the housing allowance and are still renting.
Yet, what perplexes me most is that I saw numerous new hire F.O.s go out and buy the 135,000 Dirham car ( with a loan ), brand new plasma screen TV and surround sound stereo system and then they start complaining that they don't have enough money. Well, duh
TP
Well the EK pilot pay survey for 2002 shows that a 1st yr EK capts package is about $US 25000 below the average for 1st yr capts of the 46 airlines used. While the Max EK capt Increment is about the max capt average for the same airlines.
For FOs it shows that a 1st years FO package is $US 8000 above the average for 1st year FOs of the same airlines, and that a Max increment EK FO is about $US 3000 below the average.
This Package is inclusive of Net Income, Employee Deductions (ie provident payment, loan payment, healthcare payment etc) and tax and Additional costs of employment (housing, pensions etc.).
When looking at just part of the package, for example Net income and Employee deductions and Tax, the EK 1st year Capt is at less than half of those for CX (old and new schemes), AA, AF, NH, CO, DL, KA, KL, JL, NW, SK, SV, UA. He does however do much better than TG, RJ, MH, AZ.
It shows a total package value for a Max increment EK Capt at $US 210000 (of which $US 140000 would be salary), while a Max increment KA Captian would be on $US 340000 (salary $US175000), a CX B scaler on $US 370000 (salary $US 230000)and a CX A scaler on $US 410000 (salary $US 260000). Average of all airlines was shown, for max increment capt is $US 210000.
For FOs it shows a 1st yr EK FOs package as $US 115000, with a salary of $US 55000.
Don
For FOs it shows that a 1st years FO package is $US 8000 above the average for 1st year FOs of the same airlines, and that a Max increment EK FO is about $US 3000 below the average.
This Package is inclusive of Net Income, Employee Deductions (ie provident payment, loan payment, healthcare payment etc) and tax and Additional costs of employment (housing, pensions etc.).
When looking at just part of the package, for example Net income and Employee deductions and Tax, the EK 1st year Capt is at less than half of those for CX (old and new schemes), AA, AF, NH, CO, DL, KA, KL, JL, NW, SK, SV, UA. He does however do much better than TG, RJ, MH, AZ.
It shows a total package value for a Max increment EK Capt at $US 210000 (of which $US 140000 would be salary), while a Max increment KA Captian would be on $US 340000 (salary $US175000), a CX B scaler on $US 370000 (salary $US 230000)and a CX A scaler on $US 410000 (salary $US 260000). Average of all airlines was shown, for max increment capt is $US 210000.
For FOs it shows a 1st yr EK FOs package as $US 115000, with a salary of $US 55000.
Don
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Dropp...
Are you in company accomodation?? Do you get the utility allowance or are your rent and utility costs for a house elsewhere??
Otherwise, you would have $20000 to spend on luxury items and decent holidays...
You won't get rich of that, but you will survive..
MR8
Are you in company accomodation?? Do you get the utility allowance or are your rent and utility costs for a house elsewhere??
Otherwise, you would have $20000 to spend on luxury items and decent holidays...
You won't get rich of that, but you will survive..
MR8
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Just checked my accounts for 2004.
Family of four, two cars (both paid for, so oldish) in company housing, with Dubai school fees paid. Last year we spent US$ 61,000 on 'just surviving'.
Holidays (long summer one for family) and the end of year Xmas bash not included. No boat, golf/sailing club memberships or any other toys. No full time househelp either, itinerant gardner cum car-washer only. Most wine and beer bought on layovers so that came off the allowances.
Not bad, not good either. If you move here obviously a lot more needed. Saved a bit, but it was not easy.
Family of four, two cars (both paid for, so oldish) in company housing, with Dubai school fees paid. Last year we spent US$ 61,000 on 'just surviving'.
Holidays (long summer one for family) and the end of year Xmas bash not included. No boat, golf/sailing club memberships or any other toys. No full time househelp either, itinerant gardner cum car-washer only. Most wine and beer bought on layovers so that came off the allowances.
Not bad, not good either. If you move here obviously a lot more needed. Saved a bit, but it was not easy.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Not being the ideal, the EK package is "at the end of the day" still much better than anyone else in the region.
Even considering T&Cs have changed recently, you still have people who have learnt from their previous mistakes or strill preserve some "sights and sounds" of the airline EK was few years ago. I know nothing is perfect, but at least you have better people looking after you rather than other airline where the guys dealing with flight ops staff in general and pilots in particular don't have a clue about one's rights. Ask the guys down south.
Unless political forces have an "act" EK will be able to react in time to keep "the planes flying". This is a view from very far.
Keep flying safe.
Even considering T&Cs have changed recently, you still have people who have learnt from their previous mistakes or strill preserve some "sights and sounds" of the airline EK was few years ago. I know nothing is perfect, but at least you have better people looking after you rather than other airline where the guys dealing with flight ops staff in general and pilots in particular don't have a clue about one's rights. Ask the guys down south.
Unless political forces have an "act" EK will be able to react in time to keep "the planes flying". This is a view from very far.
Keep flying safe.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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L1011 - what the 
did you spend $usd 61,000 on??????????
If you live on caviar and employ 5 maids maybe I could understand that!! You obviously don't know what SURVIVING is all about...............................
did you spend $usd 61,000 on??????????If you live on caviar and employ 5 maids maybe I could understand that!! You obviously don't know what SURVIVING is all about...............................
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white knight
you obviously don't know why we are expats. If you are here because you just want to survive then I pity you, most of us expect a bit more. I believe even you will agree that living in Dubai has become very expensive, wages are effectively going backwards while the newspapers can't keep up with the good news of record profits, record sales, record visitor numbers and so on. No wonder the thin middle class feels unfairly squeezed, not even mentioning the worker-ants who actually build Dubai, a lot of them even doing it for free...
I have never seen nor imagined a more divided, artificial society, where the veneer of "decency" is so thin that the most casual glance through the newspaper will freak out the average reader in a western country, BUT throw enough money at people and the most appalling conditions become acceptable (Saudia being a good example). In lieu of money, lifestyle is often quoted for a reason to come to Dubai. Poor guys who base their decission on phantasy ads, depicting a "palatial life style" which in reality will pretty soon consist of life in high-rise buildings without view, traffic jams to rival the worst of Europe or the US and an environment that 6 months in a year could be used to train astronauts for a mission to Mars.
If the money is not right, small problems start to grow very big, very fast.
you obviously don't know why we are expats. If you are here because you just want to survive then I pity you, most of us expect a bit more. I believe even you will agree that living in Dubai has become very expensive, wages are effectively going backwards while the newspapers can't keep up with the good news of record profits, record sales, record visitor numbers and so on. No wonder the thin middle class feels unfairly squeezed, not even mentioning the worker-ants who actually build Dubai, a lot of them even doing it for free...
I have never seen nor imagined a more divided, artificial society, where the veneer of "decency" is so thin that the most casual glance through the newspaper will freak out the average reader in a western country, BUT throw enough money at people and the most appalling conditions become acceptable (Saudia being a good example). In lieu of money, lifestyle is often quoted for a reason to come to Dubai. Poor guys who base their decission on phantasy ads, depicting a "palatial life style" which in reality will pretty soon consist of life in high-rise buildings without view, traffic jams to rival the worst of Europe or the US and an environment that 6 months in a year could be used to train astronauts for a mission to Mars.
If the money is not right, small problems start to grow very big, very fast.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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nixisfix - you misread what I'm saying. I'm certainly here to do more than "survive"!!
I just can't for the life of me see how $61,000 is bare bones scraping through "just surviving"
I just can't for the life of me see how $61,000 is bare bones scraping through "just surviving"
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Well if you have kids especially 3 or more you will never save a thing, and never afford a maid.
F/Os are garbage in this company , not even in the same league as a captain and not worthy of a command ,its like the 2 jobs are not related.
F/Os are garbage in this company , not even in the same league as a captain and not worthy of a command ,its like the 2 jobs are not related.
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Trashey
Sounds like you have some serious issues. If I was THAT bitter about my employer, I wouldn't be hanging around mate. With an attitude like that, you'll never know what it's like as a Captain here.
Sounds like you have some serious issues. If I was THAT bitter about my employer, I wouldn't be hanging around mate. With an attitude like that, you'll never know what it's like as a Captain here.
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nixisfix, all great points but that is the problem with places that everyone wants to go to. I understand places like Miami, Los Angeles, Vancouver, Puerto Vallarta all used to be sleepy, attractive and affordable places for middle income families decades ago. If everyone wants to be there, the magic wears off after a while.
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I think the numbers are about right, I didn't do the survival thing as an F/O just added the ex-pat bits to my UK life. When I first arrived, bought a second hand car for 95k, got a maid and went to work. 2 kids, a holiday/year (home not abroad) and went out to do Dubai. i.e Couple of times/month had a nice meal with friends in a swish restaurant, had family and friends over to stay, and a club membership. Over 3 years, I was a nett contributor to Dubai of over US$50,000.
I was debt free on arrival and this year finally hope to clear up the F/O debts. Don, my bottom line was that I had a maid and twice a month went to nicer restaurants than I would have frequented in the UK. Other than that my lifestyle was the same. Played with the kids, played golf etc. The staples of my life are more expensive here than they were in the UK and I didn't want to change them.
Had Dubai put into perspective the other day. Was out playing golf with a Kiwi passing thru to the UK to see his new outlaws. He said 'what is there to do in Dubai?' I said 'well obviously golf, the rugby 7s and the beach and grrreat hospitality and uh, uh, shopping!' Now I realise how much my actually limited life cost me..but..at least its sunny!
Ghost
I was debt free on arrival and this year finally hope to clear up the F/O debts. Don, my bottom line was that I had a maid and twice a month went to nicer restaurants than I would have frequented in the UK. Other than that my lifestyle was the same. Played with the kids, played golf etc. The staples of my life are more expensive here than they were in the UK and I didn't want to change them.
Had Dubai put into perspective the other day. Was out playing golf with a Kiwi passing thru to the UK to see his new outlaws. He said 'what is there to do in Dubai?' I said 'well obviously golf, the rugby 7s and the beach and grrreat hospitality and uh, uh, shopping!' Now I realise how much my actually limited life cost me..but..at least its sunny!
Ghost
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But what if you don't play golf...?
Whilst talking to some crew on a recent layover, a British girl, who has only been here two months, asked 'what is there to do?' So after the obvious answers, I struggled to find something to add to the list already mentioned by Ghostie. I hadn't really thought about it before...
Whilst talking to some crew on a recent layover, a British girl, who has only been here two months, asked 'what is there to do?' So after the obvious answers, I struggled to find something to add to the list already mentioned by Ghostie. I hadn't really thought about it before...
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i'm non-pilot, but been looking at the nos and have managed to work outthe following:
All figures Dhs per annum:
rent 125k
school for 1 young kid 30k
petrol 3.6k
car loan 18k
utilities 12k
medical/dental ins 18k
club membership 15k
maid 25k
Sat TV 3k
Internet 3k
Basic home food 25k
total: 277.6k
or GBP 41,640 / USD 77,034
Obviously all above figures are generalisations, rent can be lower if you want, you don't HAVE to have a maid, you can buy a cheap old car etc etc... take some of these out or down a bit and you get to about USD 60k which seems to agree with previous numbers submitted by other posteurs...
Can anyone corroborate these figures?
Thks
All figures Dhs per annum:
rent 125k
school for 1 young kid 30k
petrol 3.6k
car loan 18k
utilities 12k
medical/dental ins 18k
club membership 15k
maid 25k
Sat TV 3k
Internet 3k
Basic home food 25k
total: 277.6k
or GBP 41,640 / USD 77,034
Obviously all above figures are generalisations, rent can be lower if you want, you don't HAVE to have a maid, you can buy a cheap old car etc etc... take some of these out or down a bit and you get to about USD 60k which seems to agree with previous numbers submitted by other posteurs...
Can anyone corroborate these figures?
Thks