124,9 New request radio show
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Base Rwy 12L
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To the drivers air frame and fellow ATC(specially the high paids down South)
One of the biggest issues conserning DXB is that we have the free far all, Sorry "open skies" policy here. This means no slots for either departures or arrivals. So NO way of regulating anything.
I sit on Arrivals and phone my Area buddies to reduce spacing as no, or only a couple of departures are moving on our ground radar.
They work hard to reduce spacing and so do the flyers, who get into profile and slow down and go down as best they can. Then without warning the holding point start to fill up and tower start pushing for more gaps.
It is time that our "great dane" (are DANES not at the moment suppose to be the villain ?) come to the party and realise that we need to start regulating things with slots for arrivals and departures specially when we are going to have work in progress.
Also making stupid rules for ILS LSA's borders on the absured ! If it is not CAT2 conditions let us use the VOR or GPS approach and the CAT 2 only in CAT 2 conditions.
The worst problem here is that the AREA guys are "not suppose to ask us for any help" another great Danish plan.
We ,well some of us, try and give as much non standard stuff to help with this but in the process put our own "round one's" on the block.
One of the biggest issues I have is that we as APP controllers have no en-route holding facility inside our airspace and are not allowed to have control over the planes in the hold.
Thus we can not shorten the hold or even take the guys out of the hold that might be in a better position for the sequence (not always the lowest in the hold) out of the hold.
We have to co-ord everything and this means a huge amount of work on both sectors. Another problem with the hold is that the profile goes out the window and that when you come out the hold sometimes you are so high that "Scenic Vectors" is needed to fit you into the sequence again.
This forum is what we need to get a better understanding of all the issues we are faced with on either side of the coin. Our managers just deal the cards and we have to play them, but they are holding all the ACE's. It would be great if we could have more pilots at our ATC meetings (it would also be great to have more ATC's at those meetings too) so your concerns can also be voiced.
It is however my believe that a couple of beers and forums like these will do a lot more than our Boss'es will achieve in a Million meetings.
Area guys let's get together for a couple of cold ones.(you may buy the first 10 rounds) so we can see Eye to I and "bury the hatchet" that was put there by our Danish friend. You guys deserve the rise and thanks for the great job!
ANSA please ask your fellow countryman (the xmas guy) to lighten up and smile now and again!
One of the biggest issues conserning DXB is that we have the free far all, Sorry "open skies" policy here. This means no slots for either departures or arrivals. So NO way of regulating anything.
I sit on Arrivals and phone my Area buddies to reduce spacing as no, or only a couple of departures are moving on our ground radar.
They work hard to reduce spacing and so do the flyers, who get into profile and slow down and go down as best they can. Then without warning the holding point start to fill up and tower start pushing for more gaps.
It is time that our "great dane" (are DANES not at the moment suppose to be the villain ?) come to the party and realise that we need to start regulating things with slots for arrivals and departures specially when we are going to have work in progress.
Also making stupid rules for ILS LSA's borders on the absured ! If it is not CAT2 conditions let us use the VOR or GPS approach and the CAT 2 only in CAT 2 conditions.
The worst problem here is that the AREA guys are "not suppose to ask us for any help" another great Danish plan.
We ,well some of us, try and give as much non standard stuff to help with this but in the process put our own "round one's" on the block.
One of the biggest issues I have is that we as APP controllers have no en-route holding facility inside our airspace and are not allowed to have control over the planes in the hold.
Thus we can not shorten the hold or even take the guys out of the hold that might be in a better position for the sequence (not always the lowest in the hold) out of the hold.
We have to co-ord everything and this means a huge amount of work on both sectors. Another problem with the hold is that the profile goes out the window and that when you come out the hold sometimes you are so high that "Scenic Vectors" is needed to fit you into the sequence again.
This forum is what we need to get a better understanding of all the issues we are faced with on either side of the coin. Our managers just deal the cards and we have to play them, but they are holding all the ACE's. It would be great if we could have more pilots at our ATC meetings (it would also be great to have more ATC's at those meetings too) so your concerns can also be voiced.
It is however my believe that a couple of beers and forums like these will do a lot more than our Boss'es will achieve in a Million meetings.
Area guys let's get together for a couple of cold ones.(you may buy the first 10 rounds) so we can see Eye to I and "bury the hatchet" that was put there by our Danish friend. You guys deserve the rise and thanks for the great job!
ANSA please ask your fellow countryman (the xmas guy) to lighten up and smile now and again!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UAE
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Originally Posted by Seaman Staynes
and we both saw each others work place
That's my experience
The only hard part is.....
You have to leave the bar in time not to oversleep the wake-up call
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: T.C.
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118.75 request show!!! I know 12L is a pain at the moment having to vacate left and cross the runway at N4. But believe me it is as much as a pain for us at the moment aswell, so if you are parking at the Tango bays or Golf bays then expect to vacate left. If possible then we let you roll to the end, however Dubai is busy so the chances are fairly slim.
Its like all the requests we are receiving, if we can do it we will, ATC is trying to provide the best service they can, and to be honest when you hear a busy frequency a stupid request can annoy!!!
For the record if we let all aircraft vacate right then the standard gap on final would have to be 15 miles!!!!!
Its like all the requests we are receiving, if we can do it we will, ATC is trying to provide the best service they can, and to be honest when you hear a busy frequency a stupid request can annoy!!!
For the record if we let all aircraft vacate right then the standard gap on final would have to be 15 miles!!!!!
Join Date: Dec 1999
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N4 or N2???
Nimmer,
Whilst we are on the subject of N4 crossings, how about letting traffic continue on to N2 to cross there as well/instead? I know this is not always possible if you have outbounds K1 and M but the traffic in DXB is often very 'one way' i.e. all arrivals/deps at the same time!! My reasoning is based on what happened the other morning. Approaching N4 to cross but traffic still out on finals so would be holding at N4 until he passed. If allowed to continue on to N2 to cross there then the waiting time would be much less and possibly frees up N4 for the traffic taxying in behind??
Also, is it just me or are there 'good days' and 'bad days' on Arrivals and Departures. Just this morning departed @ 0130 local, only aircraft in the sky (yes, that includes SHJ and arrivals) and flew the whole bloody SID until transferred to UAE who cleared us to PAPAR direct. On return sector the guy on Arrivals had ALL his ducks in a row and was getting aircraft in to 30R like it was going out of fashion. The contrast was striking
Whilst we are on the subject of N4 crossings, how about letting traffic continue on to N2 to cross there as well/instead? I know this is not always possible if you have outbounds K1 and M but the traffic in DXB is often very 'one way' i.e. all arrivals/deps at the same time!! My reasoning is based on what happened the other morning. Approaching N4 to cross but traffic still out on finals so would be holding at N4 until he passed. If allowed to continue on to N2 to cross there then the waiting time would be much less and possibly frees up N4 for the traffic taxying in behind??
Also, is it just me or are there 'good days' and 'bad days' on Arrivals and Departures. Just this morning departed @ 0130 local, only aircraft in the sky (yes, that includes SHJ and arrivals) and flew the whole bloody SID until transferred to UAE who cleared us to PAPAR direct. On return sector the guy on Arrivals had ALL his ducks in a row and was getting aircraft in to 30R like it was going out of fashion. The contrast was striking
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Unfortunately I have to agree. Just as you get guys that can and want to fly the machines and others that prefer to do absolutely everything by the numbers, you get ATC's that are the same. It will be the same all over the world. Glad you had a good experience on the return anyway.
I will let Nimmer answer you on the N2 question. I get lost between the crew gate and the tower.
I will let Nimmer answer you on the N2 question. I get lost between the crew gate and the tower.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Land of Red Light Tulips (NOT!!)
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Quote" Now for the good news, all of our bad R/T problems have been taken care of, rumour has it that some some our new pilots who's english was not quite as we would like it, have been sent for elocution lessons.
Just goes to show the quatily (or not) of pilots we are recruiting. QED.
"
You guys should see the controllers that have come to check out working in Dubai! It'll be great! Neither the Pilot or controllers will speak english!
And for the record, RAK sucks!!! Thank god a RAK tower controller working(sleeping) at 12am gets paid the same as me whist I practise "tite sphixteritis" in arrival at 12am... yeah, seeeeeee ya!
Just goes to show the quatily (or not) of pilots we are recruiting. QED.
"You guys should see the controllers that have come to check out working in Dubai! It'll be great! Neither the Pilot or controllers will speak english!
And for the record, RAK sucks!!! Thank god a RAK tower controller working(sleeping) at 12am gets paid the same as me whist I practise "tite sphixteritis" in arrival at 12am... yeah, seeeeeee ya!
