124,9 New request radio show
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Planet Earth
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Oh that last one made me laugh, pleased to see we all still have our sence of humour.
Now for the good news, all of our bad R/T problems have been taken care of, rumour has it that some some our new pilots who's english was not quite as we would like it, have been sent for elocution lessons.
Just goes to show the quatily (or not) of pilots we are recruiting. QED.
Now for the good news, all of our bad R/T problems have been taken care of, rumour has it that some some our new pilots who's english was not quite as we would like it, have been sent for elocution lessons.
Just goes to show the quatily (or not) of pilots we are recruiting. QED.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dubai
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Now I know I am blissfully monolingual and not particularly proud of it, but I just flew with a newish chap who had me "gritting me teef". It was like watching frozen treacle flowing up hill, seeing him digest an instruction, translate it from English to Hurdy Gurdy and back again to English, then transmit a barely cohesive reply.
DR, you are so spot on, I have blown through the 30R localiser for EXACTLY that reason
DR, you are so spot on, I have blown through the 30R localiser for EXACTLY that reason
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: sandpit
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We ALL did radio licenses. WE PASSED! We would not be there if we didn't, correct? ATC has an issue and it's a valid one. Say the altitude, or the Flight level passing on 1st contact. Don't say passing 3000', say ALTITUDE 3000'. Similarly, don't say, level 190, say FLIGHT LEVEL 190. Quite easy. We BOTH know where we stand then.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Base Rwy 12L
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Ruserious,
I know the feeling !!!!!! And trying to put back the hair I have just pulled out has not worked (so look for the bold guy ) NO! I am not the old guy Airno is revering to I said bold !!!
Here is the instruction: Callsign ,"turn right 270 cleared I.L.S approach rwy 30 right. Report localizer establish"........................simple hey?
now .......................................silence............(L LZ closing in) callsign again........."did you copy".........(LLZ closing) .
silence........
suddenly!!!!!!! "any speed restrictions for us"... NO CALLSIGN (some where out there) .......(get's ignored)......silence .......... back to "Callsign turn right heading now 290 cleared approach".....silence......then......"aaaahhhh connfiiirmmm the last was for aaah" (forgot callsign) another voice in the background....."he said right turn cleared for the approach"
then ...........silence.........."any speed resrictions for us" with callsign this time! (gets ignored) just as.... "aaaaahhhhh right turn cleared approach confirm runway 30 Right" goes flashing through the localizer.........."Any speech restrictions for us " it echoes ,as ATC pulls hair out and try to refrain from using :"you dumb .....
" on frequency!
Offffffff ccccccause, as always
Dct no speed
I know the feeling !!!!!! And trying to put back the hair I have just pulled out has not worked (so look for the bold guy ) NO! I am not the old guy Airno is revering to I said bold !!!
Here is the instruction: Callsign ,"turn right 270 cleared I.L.S approach rwy 30 right. Report localizer establish"........................simple hey?
now .......................................silence............(L LZ closing in) callsign again........."did you copy".........(LLZ closing) .
silence........
suddenly!!!!!!! "any speed restrictions for us"... NO CALLSIGN (some where out there) .......(get's ignored)......silence .......... back to "Callsign turn right heading now 290 cleared approach".....silence......then......"aaaahhhh connfiiirmmm the last was for aaah" (forgot callsign) another voice in the background....."he said right turn cleared for the approach"
then ...........silence.........."any speed resrictions for us" with callsign this time! (gets ignored) just as.... "aaaaahhhhh right turn cleared approach confirm runway 30 Right" goes flashing through the localizer.........."Any speech restrictions for us " it echoes ,as ATC pulls hair out and try to refrain from using :"you dumb .....
" on frequency!Offffffff ccccccause, as always
Dct no speed
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dubai
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Maybe you should hold the equivalent of the Hollywood Golden Raspberry Awards, for the worst performance of the year. We could call it the RT Muppetry award for disservice to professional aviation. Nothing like a bit of name & shame, just inform the protagonists that they have been shortlisted for the awards after landing.
Saying that one of my favourite experiences in life is taxying in after a long all nighter and trying to get my tongue to readback a simple instruction, so I had better be careful
Always wanted to win an award 
Saying that one of my favourite experiences in life is taxying in after a long all nighter and trying to get my tongue to readback a simple instruction, so I had better be careful
Always wanted to win an award
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: in the clouds
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Answers simple:
Carry sh*tloads of extra fuel (no worries about fuel then)
Fly .85 enroute (rather than hi speed at the DXB end)
Descend with full speed barake (after your level off in descent)
Fly the full star at min clean speed
Enjoy the view
Give ATC a break (our view is generally better than theirs)
Carry sh*tloads of extra fuel (no worries about fuel then)
Fly .85 enroute (rather than hi speed at the DXB end)
Descend with full speed barake (after your level off in descent)
Fly the full star at min clean speed
Enjoy the view
Give ATC a break (our view is generally better than theirs)
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Seems to me a lot of these misunderstandings would be reduced if we re-introduced ATC fam lights. I know HAH at EK isn't against the idea, so a bit of a push (like an official letter) from the ATCO bosses to TCAS would probably get them up and running again.
I for one would be more than happy to have you guys in the jump seat as often as it can be arranged - particularly inbound to DXB around and just after midnight. You might, however, not be too happy with what you see on the fuel gauges in that last couple of thousand feet prior to landing on such flights after what is becoming the 'standard' DXB vectoring.
The magic word in such circumstances is "commit". Some might say that we who do so should be committed.
I for one would be more than happy to have you guys in the jump seat as often as it can be arranged - particularly inbound to DXB around and just after midnight. You might, however, not be too happy with what you see on the fuel gauges in that last couple of thousand feet prior to landing on such flights after what is becoming the 'standard' DXB vectoring.
The magic word in such circumstances is "commit". Some might say that we who do so should be committed.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UAE
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Wiley, I agree about the jumpseats and the other way round too. Would love to have you with us at midnight to see what it looks like from our side. I think we can learn quite a bit from each others problems. At the moment the ATC's are "trying" to make the best of a bit of a poo situation regarding the runways/taxiways and rules.
Will ask our bosses about requesting the jumpseats AGAIN.
Thanks for the offer.
Will ask our bosses about requesting the jumpseats AGAIN.
Thanks for the offer.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UAE
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Glueball
Will have to confirm the update rate of our radar system. If it is around 3 to 4 seconds, then it works out to around a 200ft lag (at 3500fpm) with that update rate. That will tie in with our tollerance. If we do have a major problem verifying a mode C because of a massive rate of d or climb, we can always check it when leveled off, or when you reduce the rate (as long as we verify it before using it for vertical seperation). Can't say I have had a problem with that yet, but good point.
Will have to confirm the update rate of our radar system. If it is around 3 to 4 seconds, then it works out to around a 200ft lag (at 3500fpm) with that update rate. That will tie in with our tollerance. If we do have a major problem verifying a mode C because of a massive rate of d or climb, we can always check it when leveled off, or when you reduce the rate (as long as we verify it before using it for vertical seperation). Can't say I have had a problem with that yet, but good point.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: 24 27 45.66N 54 22 42.28E
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A question to all the pilots reading this. With 20 NM in trail spacing required for the usual midnight rush straight in approaches to RWY12, it is impossible to fit the aircraft we have in without major major delays. Now some guys prefer to try and achieve this with big vectors, at least for a while and then succumb to just whacking everyone in the hold. Which do you guys prefer. Do you want a scenic tour of the gulf, or would you prefer to be kept high, whacked into the hold at DESDI and spin your way down?
Second question is with all the delays in place in Dubai, has there been a holding advisory NOTAM put out, telling aircraft to expect half an hour holding due to runway works? If there hasn't been surely there should be, because more and more often are we having pressure on us from pilots, ie. We can only hold for 10 minutes due to fuel etc. I mean we all know there will delays in the evenings so surely better for pilots to be forewarned and be carrying some extra fuel for "mum and the kids".
Second question is with all the delays in place in Dubai, has there been a holding advisory NOTAM put out, telling aircraft to expect half an hour holding due to runway works? If there hasn't been surely there should be, because more and more often are we having pressure on us from pilots, ie. We can only hold for 10 minutes due to fuel etc. I mean we all know there will delays in the evenings so surely better for pilots to be forewarned and be carrying some extra fuel for "mum and the kids".
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Contacted
Try about four/five minutes max with the airspace we have and the winter winds. Any more than that it becomes a nightmare for you and I. I think that you will find now that more and more of us are using holding, particularly for 12 from the west. We can't provide EATs in the hold because we aren't allowed to use set course times for sequencing and often don't know ourselves. The best you can get normally is advice as to how many laps you will do in the hold so if you are fuel critical a latest divert/approach time from you wouldn't hurt. My only other advice for you guys who are flying here is to maintain your sense of humour, more and more you are going to need when returning home to the sandy cities.
Try about four/five minutes max with the airspace we have and the winter winds. Any more than that it becomes a nightmare for you and I. I think that you will find now that more and more of us are using holding, particularly for 12 from the west. We can't provide EATs in the hold because we aren't allowed to use set course times for sequencing and often don't know ourselves. The best you can get normally is advice as to how many laps you will do in the hold so if you are fuel critical a latest divert/approach time from you wouldn't hurt. My only other advice for you guys who are flying here is to maintain your sense of humour, more and more you are going to need when returning home to the sandy cities.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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I agree with Sandborne. A latest divert time with alternate is always appreciated ahead of time, rather than "we need to divert in 5 minutes", as that doesn't give us much time to get you through the four guys holding below you.
We sometimes know that we can give Dubai 20 NM in trail so from that we can extrapalate how long the holding will be, but when the airshow hits from both the East and the West, it can be anyones guess when and how far apart Dubai will be able to take guys out of the hold, so a lot of the time we can only give a guesstimate as to hold long you will hold.
Hopefully all these works will finish one day, and we can go back to 10 Nm in trail from both sides. Until then, it will continue to be a bun fight each evening at about midnight.
We sometimes know that we can give Dubai 20 NM in trail so from that we can extrapalate how long the holding will be, but when the airshow hits from both the East and the West, it can be anyones guess when and how far apart Dubai will be able to take guys out of the hold, so a lot of the time we can only give a guesstimate as to hold long you will hold.
Hopefully all these works will finish one day, and we can go back to 10 Nm in trail from both sides. Until then, it will continue to be a bun fight each evening at about midnight.
When given the choice I would like the hold instead of vectors. However I was vectored in front of the guys in the hold the other night, more of that if available too please.
I think the use of the 1 runway has improved a whole bunch over what it was like last time. Good work from the guys in the twr, app, UAE etc. Hope it stays like that if/when both runways open.
About time we organise another Pilot, ATC, Engineer, and anyone else work meet at Dubliners.
Don
I think the use of the 1 runway has improved a whole bunch over what it was like last time. Good work from the guys in the twr, app, UAE etc. Hope it stays like that if/when both runways open.
About time we organise another Pilot, ATC, Engineer, and anyone else work meet at Dubliners.
Don
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: 24 27 45.66N 54 22 42.28E
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Don, sometimes it's the luck of the draw, and I guess it was your lucky night. Basically if I have Number 1...10NM....Number 2.....10NM......Number 3, and I need 20 NM's, number 2 loses, and gets held. Numbers 1 and 3 run through, Number 2 does 1 hold and naturally slots 20 NM's behind number 3. Hope that makes sense. Thats why to some of the pilots it seems unfair to be held while someone behind you runs through, but it's the most efficient way to run the sequence. Cheers.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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"EKs fuel policy allows us to commit to destination provided landing with at least Final Reserve Fuel is assured (runway is open, weather sufficient, etc). This can be done only if the Maximum Delay or EAT is known."
Not true. You can also commit if you can land at two different airports with more than final reserve. At EK we meet this requirement on 99% of the arrivals in DXB.
7
Not true. You can also commit if you can land at two different airports with more than final reserve. At EK we meet this requirement on 99% of the arrivals in DXB.
7
Join Date: Jun 2001
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airbus757, if you're using Sharjah as your second airport, you may be in for a rude surprise should you ever be forced to use it.
Let me add my vote to preferring to be put high in the hold rather than being given the grand low level drag it in tour.
Let me add my vote to preferring to be put high in the hold rather than being given the grand low level drag it in tour.