Sun Express News
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Dear Xqdriver,
Thank you for more information.
Your optimism is highly remarkable! I am sure many of XQ colleagues of yours sharing this optimism with you and hoping the situation soon will change for the better.
But being just optimist alone won't solve this problem. (I don't mean to discourage you
)
As far as I know, ( just guessing) in LH, the sim instructors must be in house instructors means usual line pilots with additional sim instructor function.
In fact this is the best way, as they know what daily flying life is about. Of course in your case this is not optimum, whilst the mobbing" has priority over qualification and any other flying skills. What a shame!
Why not getting in direct contact with the new ops manager, who seems to be promising! Did you think about it?
I could imagine the 76ers will also try to have him under control, and if he is this kind of person the history will repeat itself.
Let's hope that he is not manipulable or biased and he's got a good pilot spirit.
I just hope he is already informed about this topic here, and he has all the information he needs to start!
2 or 3 pilots put all the facts together and ask for a special meeting in a natural place such a restaurant or hotel lobby but not in XQ. It's is very important that you don't get personal, don't use any names unless you are asked and don't be emotional (this is the most difficult one I know). Tell him what is going wrong in your opinion and tell him that you are concerned on behalf of all your colleagues and your company. Let the ball roll and wait and listen for couple of days.
You must take this risk! After all if he is biased and one sided, than anyway XQ is not a right place for YOU to work on the long run. Because you don't want to lose your self respect and dignity! Soon or later you will have to find something else using your valuable rating.
But at least you tried and you did not give up at the first place.
Go for it
Thank you for more information.
Your optimism is highly remarkable! I am sure many of XQ colleagues of yours sharing this optimism with you and hoping the situation soon will change for the better.
But being just optimist alone won't solve this problem. (I don't mean to discourage you
)As far as I know, ( just guessing) in LH, the sim instructors must be in house instructors means usual line pilots with additional sim instructor function.
In fact this is the best way, as they know what daily flying life is about. Of course in your case this is not optimum, whilst the mobbing" has priority over qualification and any other flying skills. What a shame!
Why not getting in direct contact with the new ops manager, who seems to be promising! Did you think about it?
I could imagine the 76ers will also try to have him under control, and if he is this kind of person the history will repeat itself.
Let's hope that he is not manipulable or biased and he's got a good pilot spirit.
I just hope he is already informed about this topic here, and he has all the information he needs to start!
2 or 3 pilots put all the facts together and ask for a special meeting in a natural place such a restaurant or hotel lobby but not in XQ. It's is very important that you don't get personal, don't use any names unless you are asked and don't be emotional (this is the most difficult one I know). Tell him what is going wrong in your opinion and tell him that you are concerned on behalf of all your colleagues and your company. Let the ball roll and wait and listen for couple of days.
You must take this risk! After all if he is biased and one sided, than anyway XQ is not a right place for YOU to work on the long run. Because you don't want to lose your self respect and dignity! Soon or later you will have to find something else using your valuable rating.
But at least you tried and you did not give up at the first place.
Go for it
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The company is out of control.
Yes of course communication is the most important thing.
In sun talking and complaining is forbidden.
THe 76 guys thought that they can the flight ops department of an airline without any experience and competency.
They thought that just a.. lick@ng is enough, like they did before.
But now they recognized that these 2 above mentioned 76 charakters are not enough, maybe General P as well.
The other thing is that P.S is a very good s@les mngr but one of the worst GM`s you can imagine.
So if we want to get back on track we have to get rid of these 76 incompetent idio.s and send General P to FRA as a S@les guys.
Sun needs a GM with some Backbone to run this airline.
Yes of course communication is the most important thing.
In sun talking and complaining is forbidden.
THe 76 guys thought that they can the flight ops department of an airline without any experience and competency.
They thought that just a.. lick@ng is enough, like they did before.
But now they recognized that these 2 above mentioned 76 charakters are not enough, maybe General P as well.
The other thing is that P.S is a very good s@les mngr but one of the worst GM`s you can imagine.
So if we want to get back on track we have to get rid of these 76 incompetent idio.s and send General P to FRA as a S@les guys.
Sun needs a GM with some Backbone to run this airline.
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Is he already in Antalya?
Just another thought:
As you may remember from your childhood, we used to complain to our parents only when we were guilty Unfortunately this effect is still valid on our grown up lives. When somebody complains to us, we immediately start to think that person has something to hide.
Don't get me wrong, you had no other choice but complaining here in this forum, but probably P.S and the others were not thinking same way. Most likely 76ers had nothing to complain. apparently- It could be that you were not taken quiet serious!
In this case, when you meet the new DO, the basic of conversation should not be purely complain about the individuals and the 76ers, but mostly your general safety concerns including SOP, CRM and open communication and accident incident reporting culture.
You may challenge him even to consider reassessing every single pilot by independent source ( e.g LH or DLR) for the sake of the safety. You can tell him later that you are concerned about some rotten eggs spoiling the whole basket! Tell him that you are as concerned pilot anytime ready to take any sim reassessment by independent sim instructors if necessary as you have nothing to hide!
If he is smart enough, he would not start his new DO job on the shallow waters and investigate the whole story.
Depends on your success, you can always offer him Fish and Raki
Dear sun737pilot, it\'s nice to hear you as the initiator of this topic.
I can imagine that you concerned XQ guys are quiet competent and skilful.
If you could manage the new DO to introduce a kind of re assessment to all existing XQ pilots, you might easily get rid of them, provided that it\'s done by independent institution such as LH.
You have to convince him to introduce non-penal and anonymous accident & incident reporting system to boost the safety standards. This is standard practice in any European airline and it really helps a lot to learn from others mistake!
If you wish I can send you some more info on this topic.
Good luck.
Just another thought:
As you may remember from your childhood, we used to complain to our parents only when we were guilty
Unfortunately this effect is still valid on our grown up lives. When somebody complains to us, we immediately start to think that person has something to hide. Don't get me wrong, you had no other choice but complaining here in this forum, but probably P.S and the others were not thinking same way. Most likely 76ers had nothing to complain. apparently- It could be that you were not taken quiet serious!
In this case, when you meet the new DO, the basic of conversation should not be purely complain about the individuals and the 76ers, but mostly your general safety concerns including SOP, CRM and open communication and accident incident reporting culture.
You may challenge him even to consider reassessing every single pilot by independent source ( e.g LH or DLR) for the sake of the safety. You can tell him later that you are concerned about some rotten eggs spoiling the whole basket! Tell him that you are as concerned pilot anytime ready to take any sim reassessment by independent sim instructors if necessary as you have nothing to hide!
If he is smart enough, he would not start his new DO job on the shallow waters and investigate the whole story.
Depends on your success, you can always offer him Fish and Raki
Dear sun737pilot, it\'s nice to hear you as the initiator of this topic.
I can imagine that you concerned XQ guys are quiet competent and skilful.
If you could manage the new DO to introduce a kind of re assessment to all existing XQ pilots, you might easily get rid of them, provided that it\'s done by independent institution such as LH.
You have to convince him to introduce non-penal and anonymous accident & incident reporting system to boost the safety standards. This is standard practice in any European airline and it really helps a lot to learn from others mistake!
If you wish I can send you some more info on this topic.
Good luck.
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Hi wingletflyer,
thanks fot the great posts.
Of course we will try to explain him the situation here in sun without going too mcuh into detail.
Its not to blame anybody in this company, our aim is to work in a safe environment.
Most of the managers use Sun Ex as a stepping stone for a better career back in Lutfansa.
Only Capt Ha.. was smart enough to run the show. But it was clear for him to stay away from the 76 guys.
Our last 2 german LH guys were holiday managers, enjoying the sun and raki. No inputs at all.
General P. doesnt want anybody interfering in his family business.
I dont know the new guy. the future will tell us.
But if he has some backbone and honour he has to change things dramatically. Otherwise the second acc is around the corner.
thanks fot the great posts.
Of course we will try to explain him the situation here in sun without going too mcuh into detail.
Its not to blame anybody in this company, our aim is to work in a safe environment.
Most of the managers use Sun Ex as a stepping stone for a better career back in Lutfansa.
Only Capt Ha.. was smart enough to run the show. But it was clear for him to stay away from the 76 guys.
Our last 2 german LH guys were holiday managers, enjoying the sun and raki. No inputs at all.
General P. doesnt want anybody interfering in his family business.
I dont know the new guy. the future will tell us.
But if he has some backbone and honour he has to change things dramatically. Otherwise the second acc is around the corner.
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Hi Xqdriver,It was the best post for the last 1 month which explains all the s..t happens in our company!If someone missed the begining of this subject just check out this post.It shows the visible part of the the iceberg!Good job xqdriver.
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wow
(As you may remember from your childhood, we used to complain to our parents only when we were guilty Unfortunately this effect is still valid on our grown up lives. When somebody complains to us, we immediately start to think that person has something to hide.)
If this effect is still valid for you dear Winglet - I'm so happy that I don't have to fly with you !!! It is sure valid for the 76'ers...
Damn, thought you got it right but than you come up with a comment like that.
Well, I know when I screw up and don't blame others for it!
This is essential to become an airline pilot, just think about the
CRM value.
What can I say? I strongly believe that you've been a manager at XQ (maybe you still are), you figured out what kind of damage the 76ers did (and still do) and you haven't done anything about it (during your time as manager or still don't do anything as a manager).
Now you're using this board to cover up your f***ups and pretend to be the helpfull Agbi...I don't buy it! Whatever, you at least got the picture by now.
I rest my case
If this effect is still valid for you dear Winglet - I'm so happy that I don't have to fly with you !!! It is sure valid for the 76'ers...
Damn, thought you got it right but than you come up with a comment like that.
Well, I know when I screw up and don't blame others for it!
This is essential to become an airline pilot, just think about the
CRM value.
What can I say? I strongly believe that you've been a manager at XQ (maybe you still are), you figured out what kind of damage the 76ers did (and still do) and you haven't done anything about it (during your time as manager or still don't do anything as a manager).
Now you're using this board to cover up your f***ups and pretend to be the helpfull Agbi...I don't buy it! Whatever, you at least got the picture by now.
I rest my case
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Mr. General P pls do yourself and us ( SUN EXPRESS) a favour and give up.
YOU ARE DEFINETELY NOT COMPETENT ENOUGH TO RUN THIS AIRLINE.
AS WE OFFERED YOU BEFORE TAKE THE CHANCE AND GO BACK TO GERMANY AS A S@LES M@anager. You can sell sell sell very good and buy you are not a good LEADER.
YOU FAILED.
YOU ARE THE MAIN REASON THAT THIS COMPANY IS RUINED.
THE 76 GUYS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF NOBODYS AND WOULD BE MANAGERS AND PILOTS. BUT YOU GAVE THEM THE POWER.
YOU ARE DEFINETELY NOT COMPETENT ENOUGH TO RUN THIS AIRLINE.
AS WE OFFERED YOU BEFORE TAKE THE CHANCE AND GO BACK TO GERMANY AS A S@LES M@anager. You can sell sell sell very good and buy you are not a good LEADER.
YOU FAILED.
YOU ARE THE MAIN REASON THAT THIS COMPANY IS RUINED.
THE 76 GUYS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF NOBODYS AND WOULD BE MANAGERS AND PILOTS. BUT YOU GAVE THEM THE POWER.
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Winglet
You keep quoting some wise men in here...you can't be that smart yourself otherwise you'd come up with some words of your own. 
Other than that:
Mutlu Yillar Arkadaslar! (Happy New Year!) - I strongly believe you'll see major changes rather soon!
Other than that:
Mutlu Yillar Arkadaslar! (Happy New Year!) - I strongly believe you'll see major changes rather soon!
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Out of 80 pilots almost 75 signed a letter for GM P.S about our dissatisfaction. Only a few most of them our 76 group friends didnt.
And guess our GM didnt accept the letter, he still thinks that he and his failed Pilot Manager group is doing a good job.
Mr. GM P.S is not accepting his and his pilot managers mistakes.
This is poor managment.
On the surface our company looks very shiny but inside it is so rotten.
And guess our GM didnt accept the letter, he still thinks that he and his failed Pilot Manager group is doing a good job.
Mr. GM P.S is not accepting his and his pilot managers mistakes.
This is poor managment.
On the surface our company looks very shiny but inside it is so rotten.
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I TOTALLY AGREE WITH SUN 737.
MR. GENERAL P. SHOULD RESIGN AND TAKE ALL THE 76 RUBBISH WITH YOU.
ONLY WHEN SUN EXPRESS IS CLEAN FROM THE BAD GUYS WE CAN START A NEW BEGINNING WITH NEW DIRECTORS AND MANAGERS.
OTHERWISE THE SAME STORY WILL START AGAIN.
WHAT IS THE NEW GUY DOING? NOTHING
WHAT IS CAPT Beckfri... doing? Nothing
THIS WILL BE AGAIN A BAD NEW YEAR.
NO HOPE.........................................??????????????? ???????????
MR. GENERAL P. SHOULD RESIGN AND TAKE ALL THE 76 RUBBISH WITH YOU.
ONLY WHEN SUN EXPRESS IS CLEAN FROM THE BAD GUYS WE CAN START A NEW BEGINNING WITH NEW DIRECTORS AND MANAGERS.
OTHERWISE THE SAME STORY WILL START AGAIN.
WHAT IS THE NEW GUY DOING? NOTHING
WHAT IS CAPT Beckfri... doing? Nothing
THIS WILL BE AGAIN A BAD NEW YEAR.
NO HOPE.........................................??????????????? ???????????
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A newsletter from combined HR/General manager/ Training department was issued:
"In order to assure the highest levels of quality and productivity from employees, as of today it will be our policy to keep all employees well trained. Through our newly implemented program of "Special High Intensity Training " ( as of now referred to as S.H.I.T.).
Like during the past 3 years our aim is to give our employees more S.H.I.T. than anyone else. If you feel that you do not receive
your share of S.H.I.T. on the job please see your manager/postholder. You will immediately be placed at the top of the S.H.I.T. list and our trained and qualified managers are especially skilled at seeing that you get all the S.H.I.T. you can handle.
Employees who on the other hand don't take their S.H.I.T. will be
placed on our specially designed programme,
'Departmental Employee Evaluation Programs' combined with S.H.I.T. (D.E.E.P.S.H.I.T.).
Since our managers took S.H.I.T. before they were promoted, they don't have to do S.H.I.T. anymore and are full of S.H.I.T. already.
If you are full of S.H.I.T. you may well be interested in a job training others. We can add your name to our
"Basic Understanding Lecture List" ( B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.)
Those, who are full of B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T will get the S.H.I.T. jobs and
can expect promotion at the earliest. Since they are eligable to apply for "Director Intensity Programming " ( D.I.P.S.H.I.T.)
If you have further questions, please direct them to our "Head Of Training" (H.O.T.S.H.I.T.).
With thanks to," Boss In General " (B.I.G.S.H.I.T.) "
Again, Happy new year to all ( incl. P.General and 76ers)
"In order to assure the highest levels of quality and productivity from employees, as of today it will be our policy to keep all employees well trained. Through our newly implemented program of "Special High Intensity Training " ( as of now referred to as S.H.I.T.).
Like during the past 3 years our aim is to give our employees more S.H.I.T. than anyone else. If you feel that you do not receive
your share of S.H.I.T. on the job please see your manager/postholder. You will immediately be placed at the top of the S.H.I.T. list and our trained and qualified managers are especially skilled at seeing that you get all the S.H.I.T. you can handle.
Employees who on the other hand don't take their S.H.I.T. will be
placed on our specially designed programme,
'Departmental Employee Evaluation Programs' combined with S.H.I.T. (D.E.E.P.S.H.I.T.).
Since our managers took S.H.I.T. before they were promoted, they don't have to do S.H.I.T. anymore and are full of S.H.I.T. already.
If you are full of S.H.I.T. you may well be interested in a job training others. We can add your name to our
"Basic Understanding Lecture List" ( B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.)
Those, who are full of B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T will get the S.H.I.T. jobs and
can expect promotion at the earliest. Since they are eligable to apply for "Director Intensity Programming " ( D.I.P.S.H.I.T.)
If you have further questions, please direct them to our "Head Of Training" (H.O.T.S.H.I.T.).
With thanks to," Boss In General " (B.I.G.S.H.I.T.) "
Again, Happy new year to all ( incl. P.General and 76ers)
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Hi everybody,
Let's just don't start blaming the new DO before we give him some time to understand what was going on until he came.And we (who really love and care about the company) must support him in a positive and affective manner.And this must be done FAST.
Wish u all the best in new year
Let's just don't start blaming the new DO before we give him some time to understand what was going on until he came.And we (who really love and care about the company) must support him in a positive and affective manner.And this must be done FAST.
Wish u all the best in new year
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YOU ARE RIGHT WE HAVE TO GIVE HIM SOME TIME BUT TO BE HONEST. I DONT BELIEVE THAT HE`S GONNA DO BIG CHANGES.
TO BRING SUN BACK TO TRACK YOU HAVE TO FIRE THE GENERAL AND HIS 76 A..LICKER.
AND THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYBODY.
ALLAH GÜNEŞI KORUSUN
TO BRING SUN BACK TO TRACK YOU HAVE TO FIRE THE GENERAL AND HIS 76 A..LICKER.
AND THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYBODY.
ALLAH GÜNEŞI KORUSUN