DEC - Disaster Entry Captain??
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Global Nomad
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don
Gee you're a good bloke, you didn't even rise to the bait. I spotted your under the radar jab at A330 and thought I might get a rise out of you but failed dismally. You probably give credit for your good landings (if it's plural) to the other guy and take the ugly one.
Cerberus
Good post, but the way things work here it will not make any difference. Besides, 411a told me that we need DEC's so it must be true.
MTOW
I'm curious but your link doesn't work...
On the thread....I know there is a lot of terrain around Nairobi, but a normal descent profile takes you nowhere near terra firma. I assume he was coming from Entebee. What gives? Speed, ROD, high drag approaches or a combination?
Gee you're a good bloke, you didn't even rise to the bait. I spotted your under the radar jab at A330 and thought I might get a rise out of you but failed dismally. You probably give credit for your good landings (if it's plural) to the other guy and take the ugly one.
Cerberus
Good post, but the way things work here it will not make any difference. Besides, 411a told me that we need DEC's so it must be true.
MTOW
I'm curious but your link doesn't work...
On the thread....I know there is a lot of terrain around Nairobi, but a normal descent profile takes you nowhere near terra firma. I assume he was coming from Entebee. What gives? Speed, ROD, high drag approaches or a combination?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For decades past and, hopefully for Emirates F/Os, for many years to come, there have been a heap of well renowned airlines who have and continue to hire DECs without all or in some cases even any of Cerberus's list of relevent experience.
And their doing just fine, thankyou.
Stop grasping at pathetic, tenuous straws to try and justify the great and noble cause of upgrades.
As it should, Emirates has done and will do dozens and dozens of upgrades so stop whining.
If there any F/Os who as WK puts it :
........then just resign, and go get your precious upgrade somewhere else leaving the position for someone who will appreciate it.
Big Hug now.
And their doing just fine, thankyou.
Stop grasping at pathetic, tenuous straws to try and justify the great and noble cause of upgrades.
As it should, Emirates has done and will do dozens and dozens of upgrades so stop whining.
If there any F/Os who as WK puts it :
are p1ssed off is due to the bullsh1t that's raining down from above!! Plus the fact that we're bailing out A FEW - (minority) of these wonderful DEC's when they are being paid almost twice as much as we are!!
Big Hug now.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No Sandpit, I'll agree der Kapitan wasn't the worst, (but I also don't think he'd ever sat on the left dide of the pedestal when airborne in his life before coming to EK - I'd even go so far as to say I think he'd only ever sat side saddle).
The link works for me, GlobalNomad, but since it doesn't for you, try this URL: http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/fun/caravan.html The original Yasser Whateverusay might be long gone, but I suspect many would say the first successful cloning must have been done many years ago.
The link works for me, GlobalNomad, but since it doesn't for you, try this URL: http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/fun/caravan.html The original Yasser Whateverusay might be long gone, but I suspect many would say the first successful cloning must have been done many years ago.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: sandbox
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I realized that it had been a year since reading this "great piece of literature". ( As a lowly effoh I found that some of the words were too big).
It is time to translate the second scroll to find out the outcome of this great history! The future of cameelers all are in the balance.
330 man
It is time to translate the second scroll to find out the outcome of this great history! The future of cameelers all are in the balance.
330 man
Registered User **
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: poll position
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When white knight has finished with his chips could i have them to chock my aeroplane please.
There used to be a proceedure to intc the nbi loc on a heading of 105 from gg and descend to 7500. I believe it is still offered at pilots discretion when radar is on, or on request. ie conditions permit.
If you leave the gg at platform and descend there is no big hill, only if you descend before the beacon, from the west. From the north a shortcut is not a track to high gnd. If you are visual and terrain isnt a factor then the boeing qrh says the warning may be considered a nuisance. It would be interesting to find out the config and actual routing.and the wx.
See white knight i have been abroad but i wouldnt give up my left seat to do it. Lifes choices mate.More to life than a few russian tarts in an arab pub. Theres PPrune for one.
There used to be a proceedure to intc the nbi loc on a heading of 105 from gg and descend to 7500. I believe it is still offered at pilots discretion when radar is on, or on request. ie conditions permit.
If you leave the gg at platform and descend there is no big hill, only if you descend before the beacon, from the west. From the north a shortcut is not a track to high gnd. If you are visual and terrain isnt a factor then the boeing qrh says the warning may be considered a nuisance. It would be interesting to find out the config and actual routing.and the wx.
See white knight i have been abroad but i wouldnt give up my left seat to do it. Lifes choices mate.More to life than a few russian tarts in an arab pub. Theres PPrune for one.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Global Nomad
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed A330.
It's time for a sequel.
If someone can write 5 books and make a few hundred million quid for a fantasy tale, I'm sure the original author of the scrolls can continue the saga for there's no lack of material.
I just want to know if 411a will make a cameo appearance?
It's time for a sequel.
If someone can write 5 books and make a few hundred million quid for a fantasy tale, I'm sure the original author of the scrolls can continue the saga for there's no lack of material.
I just want to know if 411a will make a cameo appearance?
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just trolled through the scroll for the first time in a long time, and have come to the conclusion that the Pprune edition has to be an abridged version of the original. I can distinctly remember reading the scroll not long after its “discovery” in Knoteatinghamm not long after I first arrived here and there was a passage in it about how onions were the one vegetable that was definitely not allowed to be grown in Knoteatinghamm, as onions “brought tears to the Cherif’s eyes”. (Anyone who’s lived in Knoteatinghamm long enough to remember Yasser Whateverusay and his minions’ big panic when they heard that the Ozmates had imported an “onion” into Knoteatinghamm will be able to decode that passage quite easily.) I don’t know why the onion comment was dropped from the version that made it onto Pprune. (I know that the author just about did a back flip on learning that someone had sent it on to Danny.) Maybe there’s someone out there with an original copy who could share the onion bit with us?
If a new scroll is discovered and translated, maybe they should call it “The more things change, the more they stay the same”, for there’s an awful lot in the original that as current today as it was when it was written, and I suspect that the Cameleers over in Qatar and maybe Abu Dhabi would find it even more familiar than the Knoteatinghamm Cameleers would.
I had dinner with a mate last night and after a couple of wines, (a very dangerous time to be suggesting anything) we both thought it would be really good if someone came up with a glossary of terms and names. I know the fabled doubleparkoutsidethesharwmashoppe is certainly still there, and the conch shells, while they might have gotten smaller, are certainly thicker on the sand than ever. The Phorwhealdryves are even more numerous, as well as bigger and scarier today than they were then, and they still flash their eyes angrily as they attempt to secure their position at the head of any queue.
Edited to add the the "goleposts" are also still certainly "...on the backs of fast moving camels."
If a new scroll is discovered and translated, maybe they should call it “The more things change, the more they stay the same”, for there’s an awful lot in the original that as current today as it was when it was written, and I suspect that the Cameleers over in Qatar and maybe Abu Dhabi would find it even more familiar than the Knoteatinghamm Cameleers would.
I had dinner with a mate last night and after a couple of wines, (a very dangerous time to be suggesting anything) we both thought it would be really good if someone came up with a glossary of terms and names. I know the fabled doubleparkoutsidethesharwmashoppe is certainly still there, and the conch shells, while they might have gotten smaller, are certainly thicker on the sand than ever. The Phorwhealdryves are even more numerous, as well as bigger and scarier today than they were then, and they still flash their eyes angrily as they attempt to secure their position at the head of any queue.
Edited to add the the "goleposts" are also still certainly "...on the backs of fast moving camels."
Last edited by MTOW; 13th Aug 2005 at 09:21.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Luton
Age: 59
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anagram time....
Fed on my Hummer, die fast!!!
(My Mohamed's different)
(Well, someone's got to do strange things at 0115hrs when you can't sleep 'cos the bloody schedules screw your internal clock!)
Fed on my Hummer, die fast!!!
(My Mohamed's different)
(Well, someone's got to do strange things at 0115hrs when you can't sleep 'cos the bloody schedules screw your internal clock!)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: home
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First of all I don't work for EK. I can understand the feelings of the F/Os and Capts. flying for EK about DEC.
I have been on the receiving end when I was an FO, but that is now history in another era.
When a company is expending as rapidly as the EK and does not have enough experincied FOs ready for cammand, what is the most logical thing to do ? Employ direct entry capts.
The Co. ( I hope) employs capts with a proven record, capable and well experienced. These guys should bring experience to the company.
On the other hand some of the FOs who speak against the DEC programme, should ask themselves this "other than some minor differences in SOPs and phraseology, does EK fly any different than everybody else? I dont think so. And the same FOs for the most part, the fist time they got a chance to handle a big jet was with EK. At this rate expansion, they will get their chance when the time comes. If that never happens, well c'est la vie.
First of all I don\'t work for EK. I can understand the feelings of the F/Os and Capts. flying for EK about DEC.
I have been on the receiving end when I was an FO, but that is now history in another era.
When a company is expending as rapidly as the EK and does not have enough experincied FOs ready for cammand, what is the most logical thing to do ? Employ direct entry capts.
The Co. ( I hope) employs capts with a proven record, capable and well experienced. These guys should bring experience to the company.
On the other hand some of the FOs who speak against the DEC programme, should ask themselves this "other than some minor differences in SOPs and phraseology, does EK fly any different than everybody else? I dont think so. And the same FOs for the most part, the first time they got a chance to handle a big jet was with EK. At this rate expansion, they will get their chance when the time comes. If that never happens, well c\'est la vie.
I have been on the receiving end when I was an FO, but that is now history in another era.
When a company is expending as rapidly as the EK and does not have enough experincied FOs ready for cammand, what is the most logical thing to do ? Employ direct entry capts.
The Co. ( I hope) employs capts with a proven record, capable and well experienced. These guys should bring experience to the company.
On the other hand some of the FOs who speak against the DEC programme, should ask themselves this "other than some minor differences in SOPs and phraseology, does EK fly any different than everybody else? I dont think so. And the same FOs for the most part, the fist time they got a chance to handle a big jet was with EK. At this rate expansion, they will get their chance when the time comes. If that never happens, well c'est la vie.
First of all I don\'t work for EK. I can understand the feelings of the F/Os and Capts. flying for EK about DEC.
I have been on the receiving end when I was an FO, but that is now history in another era.
When a company is expending as rapidly as the EK and does not have enough experincied FOs ready for cammand, what is the most logical thing to do ? Employ direct entry capts.
The Co. ( I hope) employs capts with a proven record, capable and well experienced. These guys should bring experience to the company.
On the other hand some of the FOs who speak against the DEC programme, should ask themselves this "other than some minor differences in SOPs and phraseology, does EK fly any different than everybody else? I dont think so. And the same FOs for the most part, the first time they got a chance to handle a big jet was with EK. At this rate expansion, they will get their chance when the time comes. If that never happens, well c\'est la vie.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Luton
Age: 59
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When a company is expending as rapidly as the EK and does not have enough experincied FOs ready for cammand, what is the most logical thing to do ? Employ direct entry capts.
Just because a guy has 10,000 hours vs. someone who has 7,000hrs, does that make him more suitable? That argument has been done to death elsewhere. Quite frankly, At 9,500hrs, I know no more than I did at 6,000hrs, with the exception that I am often humbled by the F/Os superior knowledge. As a four year Captain here in EK, I find it amazing that I still don't have the qualities to be a DEC should I resign and rejoin! Don't laugh, some F/Os have considered it!
EK made a mistake in recruiting DECs. All it achieved was to allow sufficient expansion rates at the expense of reducing crew morale even further. The DECs were only recruited as a last minute effort to crew the rather sudden appearance of the A340-300s. We were told, by our EVP, that no current F/O would be disadvantaged by the recruitment of DECs and that no Captain would be disadvantaged either. Wrong in both cases. These 'expert' pilost were brought in at higher rates than year one Captains, thus disadvantaging immediately those that had just bee promoted and every F/O with the required hours for promotion (6,000) has also been disadvantaged.
Many of you forget that, at EK, we have had four (??) changes to the upgrade and promotion policy in as many years and I could not quote the current policy, especially the fast track, but suffice to say that the F/Os that I fly with are all totally capable and able operators, they just haven't done three years here yet. Monsieur, That is not 'C'est la vie' that is just pure unfair.
Its all about money......
What about the F/os that exceed the Dec requirement ....
The f/os promised accelerated commands , no more on Airbus but plenty on Boeing............
And quite a few 3 year F/os coming up on airbus with no planes to fly.
The only way to get a transition corse is to resign and come back and for a few F/os this is the better option...............
What about the F/os that exceed the Dec requirement ....
The f/os promised accelerated commands , no more on Airbus but plenty on Boeing............
And quite a few 3 year F/os coming up on airbus with no planes to fly.
The only way to get a transition corse is to resign and come back and for a few F/os this is the better option...............
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Global Nomad
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turnarsol
Either this is a wind up or you simply have no idea.
First of all get your facts straight.
Emirates does have enough experienced FO's to feed most, if not all of the command requirement. The requirement to spend 3 years as an FO and other policy is what restricts commands, not the FO's ability.
If the company screened the seniority list and had no FO's "capable" of command, then hire who you want.
Scooter
What about the FO's that exceed the DEC requirement or the FO's that were allegedly promised an accelerated command?
Ever considered how the 3 year FO feels about those pilots? No? I guessed as much.
You're complaining about DEC's, yet in the same breath you are trying to justify a secular groups promotion ahead of others. Good luck.
Either this is a wind up or you simply have no idea.
First of all get your facts straight.
does not have enough experincied FOs ready for cammand
If the company screened the seniority list and had no FO's "capable" of command, then hire who you want.
Scooter
What about the FO's that exceed the DEC requirement or the FO's that were allegedly promised an accelerated command?
Ever considered how the 3 year FO feels about those pilots? No? I guessed as much.
You're complaining about DEC's, yet in the same breath you are trying to justify a secular groups promotion ahead of others. Good luck.
if there was transition upgrades there would not be any problems , without them many will be disadvataged no matter what the experience .
I have already secured a new job so this is my last xmas in Dubai Goodbye.
I have already secured a new job so this is my last xmas in Dubai Goodbye.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see.......so by the time 6000 hours rolls over some of the more arrogant and conceited amongst us truly have nothing else to learn about flying. Experienced it all and several times over to, no doubt.
To actually think you can learn no more and know everything by xxxx hours only proves that you still have a lot to learn.
Aviation insurance actuaries are very good and accurate at determining risk levels and thresholds and thereby setting the premiums. Emirates is I daresay "guided" accordingly.
In many of the Flag- Carriers around the world F/Os may have to wait 10 plus years for a turboprop or a narrow body jet Command and here at Emirates guys are pouting and bitching like 10 year old girls because they have to wait 3 years for a modern wide-body jet upgrade in a pretty darn good airline. Geeezzzz.
To actually think you can learn no more and know everything by xxxx hours only proves that you still have a lot to learn.
Aviation insurance actuaries are very good and accurate at determining risk levels and thresholds and thereby setting the premiums. Emirates is I daresay "guided" accordingly.
In many of the Flag- Carriers around the world F/Os may have to wait 10 plus years for a turboprop or a narrow body jet Command and here at Emirates guys are pouting and bitching like 10 year old girls because they have to wait 3 years for a modern wide-body jet upgrade in a pretty darn good airline. Geeezzzz.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 1,026
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many of the flag carriers around the world have an F/O pay scale which makes it viable to wait 10 years for a command. For an F/O with a family at Emirates the only way to make ends meet is to get a Captain's wage as quickly as possible. How many flag carriers have DECs?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
......... and conversely and more to the point just how many Expat. airlines are there that will treat you pretty well as an F/O and then give you a B777 or A330 upgrade in just 3 years, no strings attached.
If they are out there :- then with all due respect why are you here.
If they are out there :- then with all due respect why are you here.