Islamist Web Site Warns U.A.E. to Expel Non-Muslims
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What happens in london or egypt recently is just barbaric terrorism,.They are absolutly no excuse for that.
The "iraq excuse" is just ridiculous. If those people as they pretend are against the war in iraq, why they donīt do there to fight american or english soldiers.. , this will make sense...instead of killing innocent people who have nothing to do with this!
Concerning Qatar and the fact they may have bought their safety by paying Al Qaida... i can berely believe it, but i heard it before as well....if itīs true, how can a country like qatar still dare to be call a muslim country..by sponsoring terrorist organisation?
Not really good for the image....??
The "iraq excuse" is just ridiculous. If those people as they pretend are against the war in iraq, why they donīt do there to fight american or english soldiers.. , this will make sense...instead of killing innocent people who have nothing to do with this!
Concerning Qatar and the fact they may have bought their safety by paying Al Qaida... i can berely believe it, but i heard it before as well....if itīs true, how can a country like qatar still dare to be call a muslim country..by sponsoring terrorist organisation?
Not really good for the image....??
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Loc22550
What a load of nonsense, go to Iraq to fight the allied forces for what?
It is said that they are there to set up the new Iraq not to fight a war.
Or perhaps we should call it a war now, shall we?
Your thinking is a reflection of the small mindedness of WASP think tanks, the same generating the aggressive policies leading to the invasion of IRAQ.
You also deem it natural to attack Iraq as if it was an obligation of the US government to rid us of a dictator, where do you get your common sense from, kaballah class, or zionism? Why don't you rid the arab world of the other dictators, mubarak, abdallah, gaddafi, Al Ali, the GCC rulers or is it different stop this multi standard indoctrinationmeant for the ignorants of the corn belt.
The average Arab/Muslim in the street speaks 2 languages and is more cultured than your average westerner who still thinks that Arabs live in Shanti, what is it with your minds are you really blind?
..
"........If you think this war is wrong you should go fight the US in Iraq........." where have you landed from with a statement like that, I bet you can't even name the 52 states making up the US and you want to come and lecture us on how we should live and greet you as saviors.
You are only here for the money and if anything is of interest to you it is because you are afraid for your life, that in your opinion is worth more than that of an Arab.
How would you feel if Iraqis invaded california and tried to impose their rule there, would you be happy about it? Or shall we call you freedom fighters then?
The middle east is paying for specialised labour to come in, but not for anyone to tell us how to live if we wnated that we would have asked, thank you.
What does the west have to bring the middle East? War, Crime, drugs, decadence, with the seven deadly sins.
Why is it that everyone who comes to the middle east like to tell middle easterners how to live their life and their faith, do muslims and arabs tell the west how to live theirs?
And finally I will also add the cherry on the cake to everyone reading this post, Anti-semitism applies to all semit people and that includes Arabs, just in case you have forgotten that Arabs are also semitic.
What a load of nonsense, go to Iraq to fight the allied forces for what?
It is said that they are there to set up the new Iraq not to fight a war.
Or perhaps we should call it a war now, shall we?
Your thinking is a reflection of the small mindedness of WASP think tanks, the same generating the aggressive policies leading to the invasion of IRAQ.
You also deem it natural to attack Iraq as if it was an obligation of the US government to rid us of a dictator, where do you get your common sense from, kaballah class, or zionism? Why don't you rid the arab world of the other dictators, mubarak, abdallah, gaddafi, Al Ali, the GCC rulers or is it different stop this multi standard indoctrinationmeant for the ignorants of the corn belt.
The average Arab/Muslim in the street speaks 2 languages and is more cultured than your average westerner who still thinks that Arabs live in Shanti, what is it with your minds are you really blind?
..
"........If you think this war is wrong you should go fight the US in Iraq........." where have you landed from with a statement like that, I bet you can't even name the 52 states making up the US and you want to come and lecture us on how we should live and greet you as saviors.
You are only here for the money and if anything is of interest to you it is because you are afraid for your life, that in your opinion is worth more than that of an Arab.
How would you feel if Iraqis invaded california and tried to impose their rule there, would you be happy about it? Or shall we call you freedom fighters then?
The middle east is paying for specialised labour to come in, but not for anyone to tell us how to live if we wnated that we would have asked, thank you.
What does the west have to bring the middle East? War, Crime, drugs, decadence, with the seven deadly sins.
Why is it that everyone who comes to the middle east like to tell middle easterners how to live their life and their faith, do muslims and arabs tell the west how to live theirs?
And finally I will also add the cherry on the cake to everyone reading this post, Anti-semitism applies to all semit people and that includes Arabs, just in case you have forgotten that Arabs are also semitic.
Last edited by AMX10; 29th Jul 2005 at 13:52.
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Fitzcarraldo
You state:
If OBL is such a heretic, why is he so revered by the average muslim in the street?
Please tell me where you got this information about Osama Bin Laden being so revered and please tell me what makes up the "average Muslim on the street"?
Can explain that one to me because i don't know the answer to that one?
Perhaps you are mixing with extremists who are pretending to be Muslims or did it say so on an Extremist website perhaps??
You are right that Osama Bin Laden is a heretic being a non Muslim who has declared that he doesn't believe in any god or the teachings of Mohammad. But i don't think he is revered by the average Muslim on the street. The Muslims i live and work with don't actually hold him in high regard and despise the man for creating the anti-Muslim culture that we are seeing today.
I see some threads referring to Saddam Hussein which i would like to add to. I do know many Iraqi Muslims who still hold Saddam in high regard. Despite all the atrocities that he did (which were many) he provided those in the cities with a high standard of living. Ok we all know he persecuted the Shia and Kurds in the later part of his dictatorship and the Sunni population had an easier time but as a nation as a whole things improved when he first came to power. I personally think he is a criminal who will pay for his crimes but consider the "average Iraqi Muslim on the street".
Saddam increased the literacy rate in children, provided state funded education for all children up to university level, state funded hospitals with excellent health care, electrical power for the major cities, telecommunication provision, clean water, jobs for life which covered their social security etc, security through an active police force and army etc. etc. (security through fear i might add)
Now consider an "average Iraqi on the street" who has no longer worked or received funding from the Iraqi Government since the downfall of the Baath Party (support which reduced due to the UN sanctions between the wars). He may have been in the army or other services which were disbanded by the US Government post OIF creating over half a million unemployed in one day. Consider also the current lack of schooling, lack of jobs, lack of good communications, lack of regular electricity, lack of water, and severe lack of security for the guy on the street.
This is still the case in Baghdad now over 2 years after the war ceased. Life is not good. If there is any anti US feeling here it is because things have not improved as promised and the US failed to make an effective post war rebuilding plan which has made a complete shambles of the OIF mission. Iraqis who are forced to work for western companies just to get any source of income fear for their lives on a daily basis. There is no effective security on the streets and the extremists regular set up road blocks on street corners and immediately execute those Iraqis who are found to be working for "the enemy".
I hope some of you can see why many Iraqis will state that "things were better under Saddam". A westerner may find this statement beyond belief after all that has been done for them by the coalition and maybe put it down to brainwashing under the Baath regime. However good intentions by the coalition do not provide clean water or put food on the table or allow you to walk down the street in safety.
This is a situation now but don't ignore the bigger picture with the anti west feeling caused by the anti-semitism that has been lying under the surface for years. Extremist (not necessarily Muslims) have been waiting for years for a chance to get back at the west and the Muslim-Jewish conflict will always be a main justification for anti west feeling whether we like it or not.
Being English i have seen how the British Government dealt with the IRA and the strict rules of engagement enforced to reduce the number of civilian casualties etc. The Isrealis have almost no limits on their rules of engagement.
If a British Soldier was to shoot and kill a 10 year old because he was throwing rocks at a tank there would be condemnation.
However if it happens on the west bank (and it does) there is no condemnation. An F15 can drop a guided bomb onto a terrorist's car at a road junction outside a school killing innocent people in the traffic queue and injuring children in the playground. Isreal make a statement stating the collateral damage was necessary but there is no real condemnation. The F15, the bomb and the pilot have all got made in the USA written on them.
The US is restricted in its actions by the controlling Jewish factor in its politics. The Christian bible belt in the US makes up a huge percentage of the potential votes that will be cast in any election and add this to the large Jewish population who have a strong influence in finance, law and politics. The US Christians support the Jewish in their fight against anti-semitism whole heartedly and any government who would show support for the Palestinian cause would not get voted into office.
There is no simple answer for discovering the views of the "average Muslim on the street". There is a long political history to all of this and it is a political minefield. You need to have an understanding of this history as well as Islam and their culture before know what the views of Muslims actually are. I don't know what the average Muslim is thinking because i don't fully understand these three elements. Also bear in mind that Muslims come from different cultures. OBL gets much of his support from Pakistani followers which are very different from Arab Muslims. You don't often get many suicide bombers from Qatar, Bahrain or Kuwait etc. A large number are in fact Syrian and you note that the London bombing involved those with links to Pakistan. Muslims are all very different but are all tarred with the same brush and would be persecuted equally. A Pakistani Shia extremist may attack a bus in London but an anti Islamic backlash may persecute a Sunni Muslim from Kuwait who has absolutely nothing in common with the extremist other than Islam.
I wish to point out that i am not anti-semitic or anti-Christian and repsect all faiths equally and that all the above is my opinion only. It may give an insight as to what is going on in the real world, watching local arab tv, not CNN or even Al Jazera, tends to do that or you may dismiss it as a load of old tosh. Having lived in Iraq for a few years i can tell you that most of what is in the news is b*ull****. The media have to sell a story and they all get the same briefs so they add there little titbits of information which normally is based on hear say through a contact of a contact and quickly becomes chinese whispers. The news reports in Iraq would always differ to what we knew was actually happening through the reports we would get from official sources. We all have views to share but those based on real experiences will always be more valuable and productive than those based on the news reports or internet.
As a footnote i would like to re-iterate this. Despite all that has happened to Muslims they may feel some hatred to the US but i know this much. The "average Muslim on the street" doesn't want to "kill an American". They don't want to hurt anyone, they just want to live a normal and safe life. If everyone adding to this forum had the chance to sit with old boy Muslims in a typical souk, drinking tea and smoking shesha and putting the world to rights through a Muslim's eyes i am sure everone would see them in a different light and show more understanding and perhaps see them as the victims too.
You state:
If OBL is such a heretic, why is he so revered by the average muslim in the street?
Please tell me where you got this information about Osama Bin Laden being so revered and please tell me what makes up the "average Muslim on the street"?
Can explain that one to me because i don't know the answer to that one?
Perhaps you are mixing with extremists who are pretending to be Muslims or did it say so on an Extremist website perhaps??
You are right that Osama Bin Laden is a heretic being a non Muslim who has declared that he doesn't believe in any god or the teachings of Mohammad. But i don't think he is revered by the average Muslim on the street. The Muslims i live and work with don't actually hold him in high regard and despise the man for creating the anti-Muslim culture that we are seeing today.
I see some threads referring to Saddam Hussein which i would like to add to. I do know many Iraqi Muslims who still hold Saddam in high regard. Despite all the atrocities that he did (which were many) he provided those in the cities with a high standard of living. Ok we all know he persecuted the Shia and Kurds in the later part of his dictatorship and the Sunni population had an easier time but as a nation as a whole things improved when he first came to power. I personally think he is a criminal who will pay for his crimes but consider the "average Iraqi Muslim on the street".
Saddam increased the literacy rate in children, provided state funded education for all children up to university level, state funded hospitals with excellent health care, electrical power for the major cities, telecommunication provision, clean water, jobs for life which covered their social security etc, security through an active police force and army etc. etc. (security through fear i might add)
Now consider an "average Iraqi on the street" who has no longer worked or received funding from the Iraqi Government since the downfall of the Baath Party (support which reduced due to the UN sanctions between the wars). He may have been in the army or other services which were disbanded by the US Government post OIF creating over half a million unemployed in one day. Consider also the current lack of schooling, lack of jobs, lack of good communications, lack of regular electricity, lack of water, and severe lack of security for the guy on the street.
This is still the case in Baghdad now over 2 years after the war ceased. Life is not good. If there is any anti US feeling here it is because things have not improved as promised and the US failed to make an effective post war rebuilding plan which has made a complete shambles of the OIF mission. Iraqis who are forced to work for western companies just to get any source of income fear for their lives on a daily basis. There is no effective security on the streets and the extremists regular set up road blocks on street corners and immediately execute those Iraqis who are found to be working for "the enemy".
I hope some of you can see why many Iraqis will state that "things were better under Saddam". A westerner may find this statement beyond belief after all that has been done for them by the coalition and maybe put it down to brainwashing under the Baath regime. However good intentions by the coalition do not provide clean water or put food on the table or allow you to walk down the street in safety.
This is a situation now but don't ignore the bigger picture with the anti west feeling caused by the anti-semitism that has been lying under the surface for years. Extremist (not necessarily Muslims) have been waiting for years for a chance to get back at the west and the Muslim-Jewish conflict will always be a main justification for anti west feeling whether we like it or not.
Being English i have seen how the British Government dealt with the IRA and the strict rules of engagement enforced to reduce the number of civilian casualties etc. The Isrealis have almost no limits on their rules of engagement.
If a British Soldier was to shoot and kill a 10 year old because he was throwing rocks at a tank there would be condemnation.
However if it happens on the west bank (and it does) there is no condemnation. An F15 can drop a guided bomb onto a terrorist's car at a road junction outside a school killing innocent people in the traffic queue and injuring children in the playground. Isreal make a statement stating the collateral damage was necessary but there is no real condemnation. The F15, the bomb and the pilot have all got made in the USA written on them.
The US is restricted in its actions by the controlling Jewish factor in its politics. The Christian bible belt in the US makes up a huge percentage of the potential votes that will be cast in any election and add this to the large Jewish population who have a strong influence in finance, law and politics. The US Christians support the Jewish in their fight against anti-semitism whole heartedly and any government who would show support for the Palestinian cause would not get voted into office.
There is no simple answer for discovering the views of the "average Muslim on the street". There is a long political history to all of this and it is a political minefield. You need to have an understanding of this history as well as Islam and their culture before know what the views of Muslims actually are. I don't know what the average Muslim is thinking because i don't fully understand these three elements. Also bear in mind that Muslims come from different cultures. OBL gets much of his support from Pakistani followers which are very different from Arab Muslims. You don't often get many suicide bombers from Qatar, Bahrain or Kuwait etc. A large number are in fact Syrian and you note that the London bombing involved those with links to Pakistan. Muslims are all very different but are all tarred with the same brush and would be persecuted equally. A Pakistani Shia extremist may attack a bus in London but an anti Islamic backlash may persecute a Sunni Muslim from Kuwait who has absolutely nothing in common with the extremist other than Islam.
I wish to point out that i am not anti-semitic or anti-Christian and repsect all faiths equally and that all the above is my opinion only. It may give an insight as to what is going on in the real world, watching local arab tv, not CNN or even Al Jazera, tends to do that or you may dismiss it as a load of old tosh. Having lived in Iraq for a few years i can tell you that most of what is in the news is b*ull****. The media have to sell a story and they all get the same briefs so they add there little titbits of information which normally is based on hear say through a contact of a contact and quickly becomes chinese whispers. The news reports in Iraq would always differ to what we knew was actually happening through the reports we would get from official sources. We all have views to share but those based on real experiences will always be more valuable and productive than those based on the news reports or internet.
As a footnote i would like to re-iterate this. Despite all that has happened to Muslims they may feel some hatred to the US but i know this much. The "average Muslim on the street" doesn't want to "kill an American". They don't want to hurt anyone, they just want to live a normal and safe life. If everyone adding to this forum had the chance to sit with old boy Muslims in a typical souk, drinking tea and smoking shesha and putting the world to rights through a Muslim's eyes i am sure everone would see them in a different light and show more understanding and perhaps see them as the victims too.
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Hitler invaded Europe - people resisted - who won the war eventually?
Vietnam , Somalia . Beirut etc ....say no more!
Bush jr invades Iraq - people are resisting - biggest American f
p ever, after Vietnam. Getting close now to repeating said history.
Unless the fuel given to wouldbe bombers are taken away ,ie the Iraq invation cockup or if somebody can openly explain to them that you are not going to heaven to have endless sex , but will be poked by the Devil with a firery rod up your arse every minute for eternity - nothing will change.
Who's fueling the real fire then? Duh !!
Go Hillary - only tree years left.
Vietnam , Somalia . Beirut etc ....say no more!
Bush jr invades Iraq - people are resisting - biggest American f
p ever, after Vietnam. Getting close now to repeating said history.Unless the fuel given to wouldbe bombers are taken away ,ie the Iraq invation cockup or if somebody can openly explain to them that you are not going to heaven to have endless sex , but will be poked by the Devil with a firery rod up your arse every minute for eternity - nothing will change.
Who's fueling the real fire then? Duh !!
Go Hillary - only tree years left.
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Barfmaeister
7 virgins?
Just imagine how bad it is with one let alone 7, there would be no Arabs left, they would have all committed suicide by the time they reach the second one.
Just imagine how bad it is with one let alone 7, there would be no Arabs left, they would have all committed suicide by the time they reach the second one.
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AMX10
Islamic Fundamentalists tried to bring down the WTC in New York and there was no big US "Hammer cracking a nut" reaction fron the US' was there? Just the arrests of a few perpetrators and inciters.
In addition do you recall there was an attack that was thwarted against LAX around the start of the millenium? That resulted in a few individual arrests and convictions.
The bombing of US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania resulted in a limited strike against OBL, his assets and his shelterers in Afghanistan.
The US wants a stable, peaceful Iraq built on solid foundations NOW so that it doesn't have to come back again and again and again to sort the mess out.
As for the recent attacks and arrests in the UK, they were unwelcome but long overdue. Personally I'd give any Police/Security services far greater powers regarding surveillance, stop and search, detention and shoot-to-kill but the more effective cure has to come from within the Muslim communities around the world, not just in the US,UK, Europe or the UAE otherwise if the attacks on Christians, Jews and Hindu communities by Islamic Fundamentalists continues then the backlash will harm mainly innocent Muslims and seriously disrupt those economies so heavily dependant upon expat skills, experience, expertise and labour.
Patience and tolerance are finite commodities.
Islamic Fundamentalists tried to bring down the WTC in New York and there was no big US "Hammer cracking a nut" reaction fron the US' was there? Just the arrests of a few perpetrators and inciters.
In addition do you recall there was an attack that was thwarted against LAX around the start of the millenium? That resulted in a few individual arrests and convictions.
The bombing of US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania resulted in a limited strike against OBL, his assets and his shelterers in Afghanistan.
The US wants a stable, peaceful Iraq built on solid foundations NOW so that it doesn't have to come back again and again and again to sort the mess out.
As for the recent attacks and arrests in the UK, they were unwelcome but long overdue. Personally I'd give any Police/Security services far greater powers regarding surveillance, stop and search, detention and shoot-to-kill but the more effective cure has to come from within the Muslim communities around the world, not just in the US,UK, Europe or the UAE otherwise if the attacks on Christians, Jews and Hindu communities by Islamic Fundamentalists continues then the backlash will harm mainly innocent Muslims and seriously disrupt those economies so heavily dependant upon expat skills, experience, expertise and labour.
Patience and tolerance are finite commodities.
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Amx 10,
Relax, take a deap breath, and come back with a mature post.
Donīt transform my post and invent your own story....
cheers.
amx 10, mentioning i said " If you think this war is wrong you should go fight us in iraq...." no really AMX10... i donīt even want to answer this crap, your imagination is working hard!
Relax, take a deap breath, and come back with a mature post.
Donīt transform my post and invent your own story....
cheers.
amx 10, mentioning i said " If you think this war is wrong you should go fight us in iraq...." no really AMX10... i donīt even want to answer this crap, your imagination is working hard!
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HI Pontious;
Terrorism in my knowledge is crime.
Calling a terrorist or a criminal a muslim, Islamic terrorist is wrong.
Are IRA terrorist catholic? Yes they are but they are not called Catholic/christian terorists.
I have no doubt that your statements about the who is who in the trrerrorist world is right, it is not however a clear end in itself.
There are issues that relate to the credibility of the western media in general, of the security agencies that are unsolved. It is very fine to accuse and point the finger, who says that these people speak in the name of Islam? I do not see their statements as bonafide and credible as easy as it may seem and salutary for intelligence agencies who just want to come off the bandwagon and say that they are doing the work they are supposed to.
Pontious, where are the WMD's, where is the link between AL qaeda and Baath.
Where we live in the Arab world, the security is tighter than anywhere in the west, most Arabic nations are police states, and all muslim fundamentalists in the 80's were given assylum status in the UK, US etc.... Today everyone is blaming the Muslim world and Arabs, where is this logic? Why did these governments welcome them in the first place.
I am not in the business of defending terrorists or criminals, there are people I will never speak to because of their narrow views and they come from all corners of this world, don't be one of them.
Look, listen and seek knowledge prior to retracting into WTC events in 94, and embassy bombings, there is something going on that is much bigger and if you are not analytical in your survey of media exposure, you wont see much beyond the easy little ranting that gives easy answers to problems that are much bigger.
Whatever arrests in my opinion that were made then were welcome but why did it stop there? who is to blame, Arabs? What aboutr these intelligence agencies are they doing their jobs?
Why always blame the arabs and muslims for events that are the realm of crime and not religion.
Terrorism in my knowledge is crime.
Calling a terrorist or a criminal a muslim, Islamic terrorist is wrong.
Are IRA terrorist catholic? Yes they are but they are not called Catholic/christian terorists.
I have no doubt that your statements about the who is who in the trrerrorist world is right, it is not however a clear end in itself.
There are issues that relate to the credibility of the western media in general, of the security agencies that are unsolved. It is very fine to accuse and point the finger, who says that these people speak in the name of Islam? I do not see their statements as bonafide and credible as easy as it may seem and salutary for intelligence agencies who just want to come off the bandwagon and say that they are doing the work they are supposed to.
Pontious, where are the WMD's, where is the link between AL qaeda and Baath.
Where we live in the Arab world, the security is tighter than anywhere in the west, most Arabic nations are police states, and all muslim fundamentalists in the 80's were given assylum status in the UK, US etc.... Today everyone is blaming the Muslim world and Arabs, where is this logic? Why did these governments welcome them in the first place.
I am not in the business of defending terrorists or criminals, there are people I will never speak to because of their narrow views and they come from all corners of this world, don't be one of them.
Look, listen and seek knowledge prior to retracting into WTC events in 94, and embassy bombings, there is something going on that is much bigger and if you are not analytical in your survey of media exposure, you wont see much beyond the easy little ranting that gives easy answers to problems that are much bigger.
Whatever arrests in my opinion that were made then were welcome but why did it stop there? who is to blame, Arabs? What aboutr these intelligence agencies are they doing their jobs?
Why always blame the arabs and muslims for events that are the realm of crime and not religion.
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AMX10
I give you a little exercise to do, take a world map, do some little research to find where are the hot spot in this planet...then you will understand...............and don't forget Sudan please! I know everybody in the middle east like to keep it quiet about this genocide run by arabs!
I can't wait to see your excuse!!
I give you a little exercise to do, take a world map, do some little research to find where are the hot spot in this planet...then you will understand...............and don't forget Sudan please! I know everybody in the middle east like to keep it quiet about this genocide run by arabs!
I can't wait to see your excuse!!
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Billy 34's input on world terror.
Ring, Ring, Ring..........Hellllllloloooo, Billy it's time to take you fix!
Unfortunately, ignorance is not something you buy, but you can carry it a long way! (This is my quote, not Billy's in case anyone is mistaken)
Money is not enough for Billy and so he states, in blistering scientific post, forgetting the current situation and disregarding it, with Iraqi civilians dying everyday, Israel supported without condition in their oppression of Palestinians and this is what he has to say :
And then he adds to this by starting his post with:
Is he really on planet earth?
I recommend another exercise take a globe ( rotating one), flip it so it turns really fast, point your index in the air, then stick it all the way to your elbow in your right eye, and tell me what you see!
Come to Dubai if you can see it on the map , I''ll give you directions to the American hospital where you can have your weeballs relieved obviously your quest for money has taken its toll on you.
Difference between you and me is that we don't even compare, so go look for me in a busy intersection at midday on foot and see if I am there, in short GPIT, or Go Play In Traffic. And it sounds better than SPIT an acronym that I can also explain if you wish.
With Love AMX11
Unfortunately, ignorance is not something you buy, but you can carry it a long way! (This is my quote, not Billy's in case anyone is mistaken)
Money is not enough for Billy and so he states, in blistering scientific post, forgetting the current situation and disregarding it, with Iraqi civilians dying everyday, Israel supported without condition in their oppression of Palestinians and this is what he has to say :
I know everybody in the middle east like to keep it quiet about this genocide run by arabs!
take a world map, do some little research to find where are the hot spot in this planet...then you will understand...............and don't forget Sudan please!
I recommend another exercise take a globe ( rotating one), flip it so it turns really fast, point your index in the air, then stick it all the way to your elbow in your right eye, and tell me what you see!
Come to Dubai if you can see it on the map , I''ll give you directions to the American hospital where you can have your weeballs relieved obviously your quest for money has taken its toll on you.
Difference between you and me is that we don't even compare, so go look for me in a busy intersection at midday on foot and see if I am there, in short GPIT, or Go Play In Traffic. And it sounds better than SPIT an acronym that I can also explain if you wish.
With Love AMX11
Last edited by AMX10; 30th Jul 2005 at 06:14.
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You state:
If OBL is such a heretic, why is he so revered by the average muslim in the street?
Please tell me where you got this information about Osama Bin Laden being so revered and please tell me what makes up the "average Muslim on the street"?
Perhaps you are mixing with extremists who are pretending to be Muslims or did it say so on an Extremist website perhaps??
If OBL is such a heretic, why is he so revered by the average muslim in the street?
Please tell me where you got this information about Osama Bin Laden being so revered and please tell me what makes up the "average Muslim on the street"?
Perhaps you are mixing with extremists who are pretending to be Muslims or did it say so on an Extremist website perhaps??
How much evidence do you demand?
I think its disingenuous of you to deny this admiration - after all, the guy has done a lot for Islam, has he not? He struck right into the very heart of the infidel America - the persecutor of Palestine and supporter of the cursed Israelis (just quoting the usual rhetoric here by the way).
Osama is lauded in websites from here to Baghdad and back as the pious muslim who gave up his wealthy inheritance to fight against the godless Russians who invaded Afghanistan. And he DEFEATED them! What a hero! Don't try to disown him...you're talking rubbish.
Speaking of rubbish.
AMX10.
In spite of all your articulate prose and sophistry, you just revealed yourself to be a one-trick pony and as ignorant and biased as any of those you condemn.
The IRA were not a Catholic terrorist group. The ethos behind the IRA is in fact Marxism, which rejects religion. You might be familiar with Karl Marx's reference to religion as 'The Opium of the people'.
And if you need a further reminder - no IRA operation was ever carried out in the name of Jesus Christ, the Pope, the Catholic Church or anything else remotely to do with religion - you're getting confused with your muslim brothers, who like to saw peoples heads off in the name of Islam and Allah.
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what's wrong amx, UN are wrong too!
UNITED NATIONS, July 22 (AFP) - UN envoy Jan Pronk on Friday expressed cautious optimism about the situation in Sudan's western Darfur region, but urged the Khartoum government to take more forceful action to disarm Arab militias and stop rapes.
"The ceasefire seems to be kept by the parties," Pronk, the UN envoy to Sudan, told the UN Security Council, adding the African Union (AU) had helped bring more stability.
But the envoy made it clear that the situation remained delicate.
"(Government-armed) militias have not been disarmed. Arbitrary arrests and inhuman treatment of prisoners still take place," Pronk told a council debate on Sudan.
In his own report to the Security Council, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan called on Khartoum to do more "to address the disarmament of the Janjaweed (Arab militias) and other outlaw groups, which would also greatly facilitate the conclusion of a political agreement that settles the conflict in Darfur."
The UN chief also deplored the fact that recent clashes between the rebel factions "have exacerbated the difficulties faced by humanitarian organizations" in delivering aid to those who need it.
Turning to the issue of rape, Pronk said: "a new Government policy to help the victims of rape and to investigate the crimes of rape has been adopted, after long and intensive discussion with the UN, but its implementation is still deficient throughout Darfur."
The Annan report made the same point, noting that: "Sexual violence committed by soldiers, police, and Government-aligned militias remains a widespread feature of the Darfur conflict," Annan said. "Although the government has taken some action, it has not done enough to end the culture of impunity behind the widespread sexual abuse in Darfur."
Pronk for his part urged the Khartoum government to "not only arrest foot soldiers who killed and raped, but also their commanders, and their leaders who instructed them to do so."
He also underscored the need to expand the AU force in Darfur soon.
The AU plans to more than double its Darfur monitoring force to more than 7,700 by September.
An estimated 180,000 to 300,000 people have died in Darfur, with some 2.6 million civilians left homeless, since February 2003 when fighting erupted between rebels and government forces backed by local Arab militia.
UNITED NATIONS, July 22 (AFP) - UN envoy Jan Pronk on Friday expressed cautious optimism about the situation in Sudan's western Darfur region, but urged the Khartoum government to take more forceful action to disarm Arab militias and stop rapes.
"The ceasefire seems to be kept by the parties," Pronk, the UN envoy to Sudan, told the UN Security Council, adding the African Union (AU) had helped bring more stability.
But the envoy made it clear that the situation remained delicate.
"(Government-armed) militias have not been disarmed. Arbitrary arrests and inhuman treatment of prisoners still take place," Pronk told a council debate on Sudan.
In his own report to the Security Council, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan called on Khartoum to do more "to address the disarmament of the Janjaweed (Arab militias) and other outlaw groups, which would also greatly facilitate the conclusion of a political agreement that settles the conflict in Darfur."
The UN chief also deplored the fact that recent clashes between the rebel factions "have exacerbated the difficulties faced by humanitarian organizations" in delivering aid to those who need it.
Turning to the issue of rape, Pronk said: "a new Government policy to help the victims of rape and to investigate the crimes of rape has been adopted, after long and intensive discussion with the UN, but its implementation is still deficient throughout Darfur."
The Annan report made the same point, noting that: "Sexual violence committed by soldiers, police, and Government-aligned militias remains a widespread feature of the Darfur conflict," Annan said. "Although the government has taken some action, it has not done enough to end the culture of impunity behind the widespread sexual abuse in Darfur."
Pronk for his part urged the Khartoum government to "not only arrest foot soldiers who killed and raped, but also their commanders, and their leaders who instructed them to do so."
He also underscored the need to expand the AU force in Darfur soon.
The AU plans to more than double its Darfur monitoring force to more than 7,700 by September.
An estimated 180,000 to 300,000 people have died in Darfur, with some 2.6 million civilians left homeless, since February 2003 when fighting erupted between rebels and government forces backed by local Arab militia.
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Another question for you AmX 10:
I known most of the arab world (the rest of the world as well), blame american to be present in iraq, well this is one point, But during more than 20 years when Sadam was the president in iraq, how many thousands of poor iraqis were killed, massacre, torture under this brutal dictatorship and during 20 years!!
Everybody knowns that...
Why didnīt the arab or muslim react at all to stop him to do that during all this period?????Why the arab world let him do that massacre?
Are you not feeling ashamed?
I known most of the arab world (the rest of the world as well), blame american to be present in iraq, well this is one point, But during more than 20 years when Sadam was the president in iraq, how many thousands of poor iraqis were killed, massacre, torture under this brutal dictatorship and during 20 years!!
Everybody knowns that...
Why didnīt the arab or muslim react at all to stop him to do that during all this period?????Why the arab world let him do that massacre?
Are you not feeling ashamed?
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Good with charity hum!
CHARITABLE donations to help people affected by the Asian tsunami disaster are falling into the hands of radical Islamic groups linked to terrorists in Indonesia, a leading expert on the global al-Qaeda network warned yesterday.
Relief money had become the "primary source" of income for two militant groups, including one founded by a Muslim cleric serving a prison sentence in connection with the Bali bombing in 2002 in which more than 200 people were killed.
Dr Rohan Gunaratna, head of the international centre for political violence and terrorism research at Singapore's Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, told the Asia-Pacific Financial Crime Conference that the Boxing Day disaster had given "unprecedented opportunities for these groups to expand their areas of influence".
The UK Department For International Development (Dfid) said it was "concerned" about his comments and urged him to provide more information so it could take action if necessary. However, the Red Cross, Oxfam and Cafod aid agencies insisted that strict accounting procedures saw to it that no money given to them had fallen into the wrong hands.
Dr Gunaratna, author of the book Inside al Qaeda: Global Network of Terror, said the radical Islamic groups Mujahideen Kompak and Majelis Mujahideen Indonesia, or MMI, were moving into the Aceh region, where 130,000 people were killed and entire villages demolished by the devastating tsunami.
He told the conference, organised by banks in Singapore, that steps had to be taken to ensure that charitable donations did not go astray.
"Charities are a primary source of income for these groups," he said. "That's why there has to be more accountability in where donations go."
MMI, which has been called the Indonesian equivalent of Sinn Fein, was founded by militant cleric Abu Bakar Bashir, who is serving a 30-month jail sentence for conspiracy in the Bali bombings. Its name means the Council of Mujahideen For Islamic Law Enforcement.
The Brussels-based International Crisis Group has said Mujahideen Kompak plans to wage holy war in Indonesia.
And, according to the US-based analysts Global Security, Mujahideen Kompak has been responsible for attacks on Christians, including the nail-bombing of a church in North Jakarta during evening prayers in November 2001. Its leaders are also sometimes drawn from the infamous Indonesian terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah.
Indonesian authorities have arrested scores of al-Qaeda-linked militants suspected of being involved in the Bali bombings, last year's attack on the Australian Embassy in Jakarta, or in the 2003 attack on the city's Marriott Hotel. But some critics still accuse the government of being soft on terrorists for fear of escalating conflicts in a land which is home to more Muslims than any other.
Dr Gunaratna said: "Indonesia must suffer more from terrorism for the people and their leaders to realise that terror is serious business and you can't flirt with terrorists."
Terrorism expert Professor David Capitanchik, formerly of Robert Gordon University, told The Scotsman that terrorist groups were known to have set up charities to act as money-laundering operations.
"Around mosques, there are lots of people standing outside with boxes asking people to give to charity," he said. "It is rare that people who donate money know exactly where it is going. Organisations banned in this country - like Hamas - raise funds like that here."
Patrick Nicholson, of Catholic aid agency Cafod, who was in Aceh in early this year and again in June, said that while radical Islamic groups had first tried to exploit the situation to whip up anti-Western feeling, they appeared to have given up.
"I would challenge him [Dr Gunaratna]. There aren't the same sort of groups [in Aceh] as you see in other parts of Indonesia," he said. "They [Islamic extremists] turned up after the tsunami and tried to get Western aid agencies kicked out.
CHARITABLE donations to help people affected by the Asian tsunami disaster are falling into the hands of radical Islamic groups linked to terrorists in Indonesia, a leading expert on the global al-Qaeda network warned yesterday.
Relief money had become the "primary source" of income for two militant groups, including one founded by a Muslim cleric serving a prison sentence in connection with the Bali bombing in 2002 in which more than 200 people were killed.
Dr Rohan Gunaratna, head of the international centre for political violence and terrorism research at Singapore's Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, told the Asia-Pacific Financial Crime Conference that the Boxing Day disaster had given "unprecedented opportunities for these groups to expand their areas of influence".
The UK Department For International Development (Dfid) said it was "concerned" about his comments and urged him to provide more information so it could take action if necessary. However, the Red Cross, Oxfam and Cafod aid agencies insisted that strict accounting procedures saw to it that no money given to them had fallen into the wrong hands.
Dr Gunaratna, author of the book Inside al Qaeda: Global Network of Terror, said the radical Islamic groups Mujahideen Kompak and Majelis Mujahideen Indonesia, or MMI, were moving into the Aceh region, where 130,000 people were killed and entire villages demolished by the devastating tsunami.
He told the conference, organised by banks in Singapore, that steps had to be taken to ensure that charitable donations did not go astray.
"Charities are a primary source of income for these groups," he said. "That's why there has to be more accountability in where donations go."
MMI, which has been called the Indonesian equivalent of Sinn Fein, was founded by militant cleric Abu Bakar Bashir, who is serving a 30-month jail sentence for conspiracy in the Bali bombings. Its name means the Council of Mujahideen For Islamic Law Enforcement.
The Brussels-based International Crisis Group has said Mujahideen Kompak plans to wage holy war in Indonesia.
And, according to the US-based analysts Global Security, Mujahideen Kompak has been responsible for attacks on Christians, including the nail-bombing of a church in North Jakarta during evening prayers in November 2001. Its leaders are also sometimes drawn from the infamous Indonesian terrorist group Jemaah Islamiyah.
Indonesian authorities have arrested scores of al-Qaeda-linked militants suspected of being involved in the Bali bombings, last year's attack on the Australian Embassy in Jakarta, or in the 2003 attack on the city's Marriott Hotel. But some critics still accuse the government of being soft on terrorists for fear of escalating conflicts in a land which is home to more Muslims than any other.
Dr Gunaratna said: "Indonesia must suffer more from terrorism for the people and their leaders to realise that terror is serious business and you can't flirt with terrorists."
Terrorism expert Professor David Capitanchik, formerly of Robert Gordon University, told The Scotsman that terrorist groups were known to have set up charities to act as money-laundering operations.
"Around mosques, there are lots of people standing outside with boxes asking people to give to charity," he said. "It is rare that people who donate money know exactly where it is going. Organisations banned in this country - like Hamas - raise funds like that here."
Patrick Nicholson, of Catholic aid agency Cafod, who was in Aceh in early this year and again in June, said that while radical Islamic groups had first tried to exploit the situation to whip up anti-Western feeling, they appeared to have given up.
"I would challenge him [Dr Gunaratna]. There aren't the same sort of groups [in Aceh] as you see in other parts of Indonesia," he said. "They [Islamic extremists] turned up after the tsunami and tried to get Western aid agencies kicked out.
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Salam Alaykum
NOw why would I feel ashamed?
I have one head two arms and two legs, and am quiet capable of providing for myself and my family.
Now asking of Saddam Era reaction to the suffering experienced by the poor Iraqis, I must remind you that Iraq was the trump card the US played against the Islamic Republic of Iran during the war betwen the two nations.
Saddam, enjoyed the status of an untouchable dictator and no one in the Arab world would have seen it right or could have done anything about what happened inside his borders.
Also do not forget that although sentiment in the street did show concern for Iraqis, few Arab Nations then (and today) enjoyed any democracy.
Billy34-Kit
Stop reading batman cartoons, they are polluting your mind and that of others. None of your books are reference when it comes to factual writing. They all have an anti-Arab and anti Islamic bias to their studies.
However I will quote your scientist where he made a statement that actually shows how wrong you are in the interpretation of events in the region and answers a question I did ask in my previous posts that no one has been able to answer:
Although a reference on terrorism, He is however no reference on Al Qaeda.
Please advise us when the US will go into Sudan, I'll take my camera.
Fitzcarraldo,
Thank you for your correction, the point though is they are still not termed by religion. The IRA was and still is predominantly catholic, and Marxism came in much later in their plight for freedom from the Brits. My statment although not precise perssay is still not wrong.
Well at least I do speak clearly, thank you!
Finally
Many complain at the views that I expose on this forum and I am thankful for everyone's input, I feel however that very few responses are structured or sourced for evidenced and everyone seems to be in a jamboree of good ol' wave the flag feeling.
Let me reassure you that it is not and if there is one thing that disappoints me its the lack of maturity and humour of some, regardless of the sometimes insulting and bigotted comments that are posted.
I have one head two arms and two legs, and am quiet capable of providing for myself and my family.
Now asking of Saddam Era reaction to the suffering experienced by the poor Iraqis, I must remind you that Iraq was the trump card the US played against the Islamic Republic of Iran during the war betwen the two nations.
Saddam, enjoyed the status of an untouchable dictator and no one in the Arab world would have seen it right or could have done anything about what happened inside his borders.
Also do not forget that although sentiment in the street did show concern for Iraqis, few Arab Nations then (and today) enjoyed any democracy.
Billy34-Kit
Stop reading batman cartoons, they are polluting your mind and that of others. None of your books are reference when it comes to factual writing. They all have an anti-Arab and anti Islamic bias to their studies.
However I will quote your scientist where he made a statement that actually shows how wrong you are in the interpretation of events in the region and answers a question I did ask in my previous posts that no one has been able to answer:
Al-Qaeda hates the Iraqi government for the way it treated the Kurds in northern Iraq after the Gulf War. There is no reason why it should be any different now. .. Iraq has been involved with Palestinian groups such as Hamas, but not with al-Qaeda.
Please advise us when the US will go into Sudan, I'll take my camera.
Fitzcarraldo,
Thank you for your correction, the point though is they are still not termed by religion. The IRA was and still is predominantly catholic, and Marxism came in much later in their plight for freedom from the Brits. My statment although not precise perssay is still not wrong.
In spite of all your articulate prose and sophistry, you just revealed yourself to be a one-trick pony and as ignorant and biased
Finally
Many complain at the views that I expose on this forum and I am thankful for everyone's input, I feel however that very few responses are structured or sourced for evidenced and everyone seems to be in a jamboree of good ol' wave the flag feeling.
Let me reassure you that it is not and if there is one thing that disappoints me its the lack of maturity and humour of some, regardless of the sometimes insulting and bigotted comments that are posted.
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The IRA was and still is predominantly catholic
I realise as a non-Irish person the whole conflict there is probably as unfathomable to you as the subtleties of the muslim nations internal love/hate relationships are to non-muslims. But it is hypocritical of you to criticise us for our 'ignorance' while you continue to display the very same ignorance when spouting about our little internal problems.
Let me explain something to you.
The modern Irish Republican movement grew out of an organisation called The United Irishmen founded in 1790 by Wolfe Tone a PROTESTANT!.
The United Irishmen was led by a protestant, and its membership was constituted from members of both religions, catholic and protestant.
Wolfe Tone led the uprising against British rule in 1798 and was executed for it.
For that reason he remains one of modern Irish Republicans greatest heroes. And a fitting one - because he was non sectarian.
While the modern Irish Republican movement drew most of its membership from deprived catholic areas it was not a CATHOLIC organisation.
Those who joined were motivated by deprivation and oppression and a desire for freedom. Not some mad aim to make the world a catholic khallifate!
The leadership of the Irish Republican movement have always been scrupulous about separating religious identity from the conflicts causes. They NEVER harangued protestants - they addressed their criticisms to Loyalism.
The whole religious element was one introduced by the British in the 1600's, who hoped that by keeping the two sides at each others throats they'd be easier to govern.
Seems you fell for that bulls**t.
I know you muslims have great difficulty in understanding the concept of separating Church from Politics - but try to get your head around this, the Republican movement is a political one, not a religious one. We can do things that way in the West.
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Thank you for the historic brief, so I am not wrong in saying it is predominantly Catholic, I am only aware of the part under Cromwell which I understand did not go to well and perhaps is a reminder of what is happeninng today.
Is the conflict today a war of religions?
Was Henry 8's great matter a religious cause or simply a means to control the ressources of the church, by taking possession of the dime?
I don't believe today is different, the West uses religion to impose a new vision while below it is the interest of natural ressources that is the main cause.
They can demonise any leader they wish to and mediatise how horrible he is what he does to his people all that is manipulation and we need to see beyond that.
Islam as demonised as it may be is no worse than christianity or Judaism yet today it is tarnished for the sake of creating a superior, unilaterla view of the world.
Most westerners do not see this beyond their everyday fear of who is going to be next. Easy to forget the same humanist principles that gave rise during the renaissance to the modern societies of today, when everyday you are reminded that your neighbour Mr. Ahmed who you could have known for 20 years is going to be your killer, Big Brother? Well worse Great Brother, modern day feudalism etc......
this is my point.
No they just spit at one another, throw bottles and shoot, kill and maim but they don't harang.
I agree with you I know as much about Irsih politics as you do of Arabs and Islam.
Having said that, what impression you get of a Khalifat is remote from the reality, when most Arabs are living under oppression and dictatorial governments, most just want the ability to express their frustrations much like we are doing on this forum.
It does not speak of a Khalifate, this is exactly what medias are wrongly publicising and that I disagree with, can you imagine a Khalifate of the US, although they already have one with their pseudo christian organisations.
I do not doubt your knowledge and character, and the dialogue of knowledge is the way to understand better not the brushing without distinction. I do not care for a Khalifat and nor would you care for one.
I am not sure you would accept an Arab at your side for his/her just value, you seem to immediately reason from a perspective that is biased with mumble jumble;
How can you expect your views to be tolerated when you want to impose them on others and expect to be respected?
The difference is that I read while you jump as soon as you see a new posting from AMX.
Call me AMZ while you are at it, that way you can associate me with a famous Bulgarian motorcycle brand that never evolved beyond the 2 stroke stage.
Is the conflict today a war of religions?
Was Henry 8's great matter a religious cause or simply a means to control the ressources of the church, by taking possession of the dime?
I don't believe today is different, the West uses religion to impose a new vision while below it is the interest of natural ressources that is the main cause.
They can demonise any leader they wish to and mediatise how horrible he is what he does to his people all that is manipulation and we need to see beyond that.
Islam as demonised as it may be is no worse than christianity or Judaism yet today it is tarnished for the sake of creating a superior, unilaterla view of the world.
Most westerners do not see this beyond their everyday fear of who is going to be next. Easy to forget the same humanist principles that gave rise during the renaissance to the modern societies of today, when everyday you are reminded that your neighbour Mr. Ahmed who you could have known for 20 years is going to be your killer, Big Brother? Well worse Great Brother, modern day feudalism etc......
this is my point.
They NEVER harangued protestants - they addressed their criticisms to Loyalism.
I agree with you I know as much about Irsih politics as you do of Arabs and Islam.
Having said that, what impression you get of a Khalifat is remote from the reality, when most Arabs are living under oppression and dictatorial governments, most just want the ability to express their frustrations much like we are doing on this forum.
It does not speak of a Khalifate, this is exactly what medias are wrongly publicising and that I disagree with, can you imagine a Khalifate of the US, although they already have one with their pseudo christian organisations.
I do not doubt your knowledge and character, and the dialogue of knowledge is the way to understand better not the brushing without distinction. I do not care for a Khalifat and nor would you care for one.
I am not sure you would accept an Arab at your side for his/her just value, you seem to immediately reason from a perspective that is biased with mumble jumble;
How can you expect your views to be tolerated when you want to impose them on others and expect to be respected?
The difference is that I read while you jump as soon as you see a new posting from AMX.
Call me AMZ while you are at it, that way you can associate me with a famous Bulgarian motorcycle brand that never evolved beyond the 2 stroke stage.
Last edited by AMX10; 30th Jul 2005 at 13:03.
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The difference is that I read while you jump as soon as you see a new posting from AMX.
Its called a DIALOGUE and requires at least two contributors.
Is the conflict today a war of religions?
Islam as demonised as it may be is no worse than christianity or Judaism yet today it is tarnished for the sake of creating a superior, unilaterla view of the world.
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Everyone here seems to be focused on Islam and its killers, forgotten are China, surely making its way in.
Then there is North Korea that has suddenly become a viable dialogue partner even though they estimate that 100000 North Koreans die of hunger every year, why are the americans not there with their army? north Korea is producing WMD but I guess its ok!
NO worries we will continue turning a blind eye to all the rogue states and look after Iraq because they are the most dangerous at the moment.
The truth is The US went in thinking it was going to be easy in and out, what they have landed with is a security problem worldwide that they would like to blame on muslim extremists, that is the truth and if you do not wish to see it its your choice, its fine with me, it does not disturb me one bit mate, carry on you will be fine.
Now, where are the US going next? The largest deficit ever, Sudan? Syria....... I mean it's ok with me too but what is the point?
Fitzcarraldo, you carry on with your frame of mind I really have nothing to say to folks like you who are just wrapped in their patriotism to a point where they do not see what's coming.
Tomorrow you will look back and if you talk of dialogue you should show interest in others' perspectives but you don't still slammering away at this myth that Arabs and Muslims are there with a sole purpose in liffe to kill christians. We will see what the US will leave of Iraq, it already looks promising. Future will tell though and I hope that everyone on this forum will see better then.
I would laugh if after the US leave Iraq, all we find is either Saddam back in power or just another dictator just as bloody and cruel, it will tell us of the success of the "Allised " efforts there.
I really do not have time for people who need to be repeated to 10 times and whose only objective is to slander, and treat others with contempt.
I notice that you are very good at jumping quickly but you still have not answered any of my questions, you just like to criticise at your will without due foundation.
.
I think that you are watching too much telly mate, and in Whose names are the american killing innocent civilians? Capitalism, Democracy (And what a democracy!) Spare us theis narrow minded rethoric please!
A few recommendations to some of you here is stop reading this spinned stuff from the Heritage foundation and other right wing think tanks and get into some real history of the region, it is both interesting and will certainly give you the right perspective when analysing the issues raised here. until then talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, actually that said, a brick wall will show more of what it knows from the past than some of you
Then there is North Korea that has suddenly become a viable dialogue partner even though they estimate that 100000 North Koreans die of hunger every year, why are the americans not there with their army? north Korea is producing WMD but I guess its ok!
NO worries we will continue turning a blind eye to all the rogue states and look after Iraq because they are the most dangerous at the moment.
The truth is The US went in thinking it was going to be easy in and out, what they have landed with is a security problem worldwide that they would like to blame on muslim extremists, that is the truth and if you do not wish to see it its your choice, its fine with me, it does not disturb me one bit mate, carry on you will be fine.
Now, where are the US going next? The largest deficit ever, Sudan? Syria....... I mean it's ok with me too but what is the point?
Fitzcarraldo, you carry on with your frame of mind I really have nothing to say to folks like you who are just wrapped in their patriotism to a point where they do not see what's coming.
Tomorrow you will look back and if you talk of dialogue you should show interest in others' perspectives but you don't still slammering away at this myth that Arabs and Muslims are there with a sole purpose in liffe to kill christians. We will see what the US will leave of Iraq, it already looks promising. Future will tell though and I hope that everyone on this forum will see better then.
I would laugh if after the US leave Iraq, all we find is either Saddam back in power or just another dictator just as bloody and cruel, it will tell us of the success of the "Allised " efforts there.
I really do not have time for people who need to be repeated to 10 times and whose only objective is to slander, and treat others with contempt.
I notice that you are very good at jumping quickly but you still have not answered any of my questions, you just like to criticise at your will without due foundation.
.
And by whom is it tarnished if not the murderers who kill in its name.
A few recommendations to some of you here is stop reading this spinned stuff from the Heritage foundation and other right wing think tanks and get into some real history of the region, it is both interesting and will certainly give you the right perspective when analysing the issues raised here. until then talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, actually that said, a brick wall will show more of what it knows from the past than some of you
Last edited by AMX10; 30th Jul 2005 at 17:12.