Jazeera Airways
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No lie - no go ...
2 MAX...
Sorry to post - you are not frankly... Surely, couple of months and... inshallah...
Have a good luck and... do a due!
P.S. No comments, no response, please. I don't have no time for monkey business.
Sorry to post - you are not frankly... Surely, couple of months and... inshallah...
Have a good luck and... do a due!
P.S. No comments, no response, please. I don't have no time for monkey business.
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This thread is quite a lengthy one, I find it amazing that you don’t have time for monkey business and yet you managed to read it all.
I’m not really interested in your point of view, but what do you care, you wont be reading my reply anyways.
MAX
I’m not really interested in your point of view, but what do you care, you wont be reading my reply anyways.
MAX
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long time ago ... and nothing changed
Hi volks,
it is quite a while that I survived Jazeera Airways and their chains for personnel!
Well, after I opened this thread, and to see, whoever was posting, it is a good feeling
to hear, that not more FOs trusted on lies of that management.
Although, that I went through the sh*t, with some other FOs, we all are happy having left
Jazzera Airways, and who wonders, all (4) of us are Captains now, in different airlines.
However it is a bad feeling thinking back - it is a good feeling to see the present status,
with us and with Jazeera Airways.
I still feel sorry for my ex-colleagues, who couldn't get out of Kuwait and who had to stay
with them, for any reasons. And what I heard while calling them, the present status hasn't changed too much, which is the meaning of todays post, just check others airlines, if you are interested in joinging a Middle East Airline.
S-JZRc
it is quite a while that I survived Jazeera Airways and their chains for personnel!
Well, after I opened this thread, and to see, whoever was posting, it is a good feeling
to hear, that not more FOs trusted on lies of that management.
Although, that I went through the sh*t, with some other FOs, we all are happy having left
Jazzera Airways, and who wonders, all (4) of us are Captains now, in different airlines.
However it is a bad feeling thinking back - it is a good feeling to see the present status,
with us and with Jazeera Airways.
I still feel sorry for my ex-colleagues, who couldn't get out of Kuwait and who had to stay
with them, for any reasons. And what I heard while calling them, the present status hasn't changed too much, which is the meaning of todays post, just check others airlines, if you are interested in joinging a Middle East Airline.
S-JZRc
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Sure the CO is a German? Sounds and acts more like an Arab.
Spent about 3 years, on and off, working for an operator in Kuwait.
Kuwait is where all the "sleezy Iraqi's went".
They use expats like tampons.
Spent about 3 years, on and off, working for an operator in Kuwait.
Kuwait is where all the "sleezy Iraqi's went".
They use expats like tampons.
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]I agree that…………… , it's a reliable and organized, with secured and clean working environment.
Last edited by MASsenger; 16th Aug 2006 at 06:54.
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Thinking of a television career???? 
or did you mean... Jazeera Airways
http://www.jazeeraairways.com/
They might have more use for a DEC
or did you mean... Jazeera Airways
http://www.jazeeraairways.com/
They might have more use for a DEC
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all the same
Ha,ha,ha………what a joke. I`m ex-KU, same ****_ different spade!!!
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I bet this German COO is a punk. A drop out who could not make the cut in a regular airline in Germany or anywhere else. The ME seems to attract drivers of this caliber who will be Management doormats. Arab Management love fellows like these who will **** on everyone!
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Boy oh boy oh boy,SRVDJZR, I dont think you'll be happy to know that the first 4 senior copilots have been promoted to captains,2 last month and 2 this month,I guess if you'd have waited and not had your head so far up your APU,you'd be in a better situation now,
But I rekon its a good thing you left after all since your too good for us to start with
MML
But I rekon its a good thing you left after all since your too good for us to start with
MML
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Boy oh boy oh boy,SRVDJZR, I dont think you'll be happy to know that the first 4 senior copilots have been promoted to captains,2 last month and 2 this month,I guess if you'd have waited and not had your head so far up your APU,you'd be in a better situation now,
But I rekon its a good thing you left after all since your too good for us to start with
MML
But I rekon its a good thing you left after all since your too good for us to start with
MML
I ran an operation in the M.E. I spent two years beating my head against the wall trying to convince upper mgmt (the owners/ Sheiks) that the best way to run the company is to keep your word and take care of the employees (because they take care of your company/ product). I'm not saying the company needs to give away the house, rather they merely need to follow the contract and follow their word (an almost impossible proposition in the Middle East). If he was told he would upgrade, why should he expect otherwise? A verbal contract IS as good as a written one, the only problem being the burden of proof of course. Regardless, throughout the Middle East, pilots are treated like crap and expats treated like slaves (not being allowed to leave a country at your own will is tantamount to slavery... the Kuwaitis are masters at this, no pun intended). An educated man like yourself ought to at least pay some credance to this regional and cultural fact.
I understand you believe in your airline, but come on. Aren't you a pilot first? Can you not relate to the broken promises so rampant in that region of the world? The "arab-trader" mentality is to delay payment, circumvent contracts and play games with employees. When those employees are the asset managers (read: pilots), such tactics always prove to be fruitless in the end.
Why is it that the Captains are always the ones to stiffle an F/Os opinion of an airline either in cockpit conversation or on forum chatrooms? Most of these Captains had the same complaints when they were F/Os yet when they upgrade it's the same mantra: "you're lukcy to be here." I am guilty of this myself, but I try minimize it as I am aware of the difficulties in being a right seater (financial, cockpit prodecures change by captains, etc).
It seems a few pilots have left Al Jazzera. How much did the company spend in recruitment/ training costs to bring those pilots on board? Surely, one with such inside knowledge as you, should know. I bet it's upwards of $60,000 US per pilot. As economies of scale grow, such mismanagement will wreck an airline; hence management's necessity to compensate more and to start following the contract (read: skilled-labor retention)
There are two ways to run an airline and ONLY TWO. 1) Cost cut to the bone and pummel every vendor/ employee/ contractor. Or 2) Provide value to your product by motivating your employees to put a positive image on your product (ala Southwest Airlines style). I'm not saying this totally equates to pay, it's a philosophical approach as well.
When I took over the company in the M.E. that I metnioed above, we had a 90% employee turnover. Against the wishes of upper mgmt and the Sheiks, I applied approach #2 to the operation and violla, we had had employee retention which reduced our overhead costs in operations (motivated employees... motivated to see the company survive) and recruitment. The pay increase wasn't huge, rather it was in line with market rates. But our philospophical approach to treating crews as a partner to the growth of the company is what turned things around for us. All zero-cost items were approved. What does it cost Al Jazzera to let an employee fly for free? ZERO.
It appears your airline has learned some recent lessons of low employee moral and you are trophying this fact to beat down your "ex-colleague". Hardly a fair assessment, what say you?
And regarding what happened to him in Lebanon. You of all people should know there are two sides to any story. Your side may indeed be true since you seem to have some inside info on the event but let's be reasonable. The company will ALWAYS use the pilot as the scapegoat. ALWAYS. And how convenient it is to blame a former employee for an event if he is no longer around to defend himself.
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Dear Geebz,
I'd be lying if I said I dont like your post,it is indeed sad but true,i will need some time to post a reply though, and since I am flying tonight, I'll postpone it a while,but I'd like to high light one item quickly,where I stand on the "way pilots should stick together code" is the same position any self respecting pilot will adopt,pilots care for each other and thats that,but when an odd pilot comes along and tries to break your image as a group of pilots who are working thier butts off and are willing to give a bit more than thier contract requires(written or oral that may be),in order to get his own personal goals achived and not giving a damn about the big picture and the higher goals we (his fellow pilots) are trying to acomplish so all of us (him included) reap the benifits of being the first batch in a start up company.
The actions done by him and other pilots who left in his wake only left us suffering loses in the Zero-cost agenda your talking about since mngmnt has a tendency to stop facilitating services that people misuse, or at least they make aquiring them a longer procedure,i.e. staff cars,staff travel,starting bank accounts, getting loans, applying for credit cards and so on.All these options now take us a lot of paper work and time only because my fellow pilots misused them,ALL OF THEM ACTUALLY,the fact that I did not state all of his and his followers actions was originating from the fact that I still believe that we must try to save some face water and integrity of each other,since, after all he was a colleague, but if I sense any trial from him to destroy a thing I've been catering for for such a long time, I will not hesitate to break the code,the one he broke in the begining to start with.
As I mentioned in the start of my reply,you stated a sad but true fact,but you cant blame me to try to stop it from occuring in the company that I'm part off now especially that its fresh and willing,having the chance,any pilot would do the same,even you, after two years beating your head against the wall of another company,if you got a fresh chance you wont hesitate to try your best all over again to avoid the negative outcome of your previous experience.
Regards,
MAX
I'd be lying if I said I dont like your post,it is indeed sad but true,i will need some time to post a reply though, and since I am flying tonight, I'll postpone it a while,but I'd like to high light one item quickly,where I stand on the "way pilots should stick together code" is the same position any self respecting pilot will adopt,pilots care for each other and thats that,but when an odd pilot comes along and tries to break your image as a group of pilots who are working thier butts off and are willing to give a bit more than thier contract requires(written or oral that may be),in order to get his own personal goals achived and not giving a damn about the big picture and the higher goals we (his fellow pilots) are trying to acomplish so all of us (him included) reap the benifits of being the first batch in a start up company.
The actions done by him and other pilots who left in his wake only left us suffering loses in the Zero-cost agenda your talking about since mngmnt has a tendency to stop facilitating services that people misuse, or at least they make aquiring them a longer procedure,i.e. staff cars,staff travel,starting bank accounts, getting loans, applying for credit cards and so on.All these options now take us a lot of paper work and time only because my fellow pilots misused them,ALL OF THEM ACTUALLY,the fact that I did not state all of his and his followers actions was originating from the fact that I still believe that we must try to save some face water and integrity of each other,since, after all he was a colleague, but if I sense any trial from him to destroy a thing I've been catering for for such a long time, I will not hesitate to break the code,the one he broke in the begining to start with.
As I mentioned in the start of my reply,you stated a sad but true fact,but you cant blame me to try to stop it from occuring in the company that I'm part off now especially that its fresh and willing,having the chance,any pilot would do the same,even you, after two years beating your head against the wall of another company,if you got a fresh chance you wont hesitate to try your best all over again to avoid the negative outcome of your previous experience.
Regards,
MAX
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@Geebz:
What you said is a very detailled description of the area. I have a strong feeling that you had worked before in Kuwait, correct?
@Maxmeldo
It is the very first time, that you are using a discreet and non-defamation style of posting. Nice and improved behaviour.
Since I am still in contact with a colleague in the company, I know what is going on.
Again, my posts are not a revenge, although you'd like to push them into that direction. My aim is to deliver information people would not get otherwise. It is the decision of anybody him/herself to join Jazeera or not. But for decision making, it is good to know what is truely going on.
You know, in my opinion it is not correct, that a few people try to get an advantage on others expense, who then join the airline and find themselves in a totally unexpected situation with a huge chance of having left a nicer job before.
Jazeera advertised a few days ago for more CPTs and FOs, stating a generous annual leave (which you are not entitled to get in the first year & which you surely won't get when you leave the airline, at least not a part of it) but - for instance - stating nothing about bonding. Of course, no company would do that, but at least, at the interview to inform about the conditions, about ALL conditions. You won't be able to deny, that although having a contract with Jazeera without a bond, and even though having been flying for several months with Jazeera as CPT, the airline forced this CPT to sign a bond retroactive for his TypeRaiting for an amount of 60.000 - 75.000 USD.
I am happy for the ex-colleagues who became CPT know, but the conditions would not have been acceptable for me. Although you are posting, 4 FOs got an upgrade - but how many of the 4 FOs had been with Jazeera from the beginning? (-> 2) The others are Kuwaitis joining later from Kuwait Airways.... What you positivly forgot to post about the Upgrade is the bond they had to sign. Although - when joining Jazeera - it was confirmed not to have a bond for the upgrade. Now they had to sign for it. So tell us, how much it is ...
That were 2 very long sentences.
Returning to the facts:
- Regarding to the use of Credit Card, I am not aware what other ex-colleagues did or did not, I can only speak fo myself and state having used it within the given limits and well within the monthly salary amount. It seems you simply were fed by companies informations without questioning them. Of course, now Jazeera is using us for any bad manner. Do you really expect me, after not being paid last months salary - which I was entitled to by Kuwait law - to balance my banc account by paying money into it?
- If you are posting about loans, for instance to buy a car, you know very well that it was not possible from the beginning. Jazeera did not help, did not support at all to get a loan. Either you had warrantor being a Kuwaiti or you did not get a loan at all. Why are you now blaming me/us for these facts?
- If you talk about "integrity of each other", I remember all of you (meaning all of the CPTs who were that time with Jazeera) called and asked the management to start upgrading, asked to stick to the contract. You were as successful as we had been. Remember, later on, we had 4 FOs for 2 A320s and no outlook at all to be upgraded within a reasonable time. Friends of the Kuwaitis CPTs from Kuwait Airways were taken, one by one, becoming a total number of around 15 CPTs to join the airline in spring 2006 blocking CPT-positions for a MIM of a year or more! And then - it was said by the DFO - THEN we start assessment, meaning, a candidate waits to this end, being THEN assessed having a great chance not to succeed. I grew up in a social environment learning and adopting social behaviour. But also this education told me that somewhen comes a point where you have to make a decision! I was sorry for my colleagues who had no opportunity but staying, because of familiy and expenses-reasons. But this does not mean that I have to stay in order to be one of two supporters! I am sure, you would not decide different, being in the same situation!
- Also when I left, it was not suddenly, not at all! After the new COO had been with us for a while, I spoke with him and told him about my personal situation. I also told him to leave the company after 3 months, if my upgrade was not in an assured schedule. This was a very clear talk and he was informed in detaills. Talking about moral aspects - it was clear for the company that I will leave after these 3 months. You can say, I did not resign formaly, I agree, but the COO fully understood the gravity of the situation. But finally, I was terminated at the end of the 3rd month, which coalated with my decision not to return.
- Please explain why staff travel is a problem which relates to us (fellow pilots who misused them) ?
I wish all (ex-colleagues, fellow pilots and management) Merry Christmas
S-JZR
What you said is a very detailled description of the area. I have a strong feeling that you had worked before in Kuwait, correct?
@Maxmeldo
It is the very first time, that you are using a discreet and non-defamation style of posting. Nice and improved behaviour.
Since I am still in contact with a colleague in the company, I know what is going on.
Again, my posts are not a revenge, although you'd like to push them into that direction. My aim is to deliver information people would not get otherwise. It is the decision of anybody him/herself to join Jazeera or not. But for decision making, it is good to know what is truely going on.
You know, in my opinion it is not correct, that a few people try to get an advantage on others expense, who then join the airline and find themselves in a totally unexpected situation with a huge chance of having left a nicer job before.
Jazeera advertised a few days ago for more CPTs and FOs, stating a generous annual leave (which you are not entitled to get in the first year & which you surely won't get when you leave the airline, at least not a part of it) but - for instance - stating nothing about bonding. Of course, no company would do that, but at least, at the interview to inform about the conditions, about ALL conditions. You won't be able to deny, that although having a contract with Jazeera without a bond, and even though having been flying for several months with Jazeera as CPT, the airline forced this CPT to sign a bond retroactive for his TypeRaiting for an amount of 60.000 - 75.000 USD.
I am happy for the ex-colleagues who became CPT know, but the conditions would not have been acceptable for me. Although you are posting, 4 FOs got an upgrade - but how many of the 4 FOs had been with Jazeera from the beginning? (-> 2) The others are Kuwaitis joining later from Kuwait Airways.... What you positivly forgot to post about the Upgrade is the bond they had to sign. Although - when joining Jazeera - it was confirmed not to have a bond for the upgrade. Now they had to sign for it. So tell us, how much it is ...
The actions done by him and other pilots who left in his wake only left us suffering loses in the Zero-cost agenda your talking about since mngmnt has a tendency to stop facilitating services that people misuse, or at least they make aquiring them a longer procedure,i.e. staff cars,staff travel,starting bank accounts, getting loans, applying for credit cards and so on.All these options now take us a lot of paper work and time only because my fellow pilots misused them,ALL OF THEM ACTUALLY,the fact that I did not state all of his and his followers actions was originating from the fact that I still believe that we must try to save some face water and integrity of each other,since, after all he was a colleague, but if I sense any trial from him to destroy a thing I've been catering for for such a long time, I will not hesitate to break the code,the one he broke in the begining to start with.
That were 2 very long sentences. Returning to the facts:
- Regarding to the use of Credit Card, I am not aware what other ex-colleagues did or did not, I can only speak fo myself and state having used it within the given limits and well within the monthly salary amount. It seems you simply were fed by companies informations without questioning them. Of course, now Jazeera is using us for any bad manner. Do you really expect me, after not being paid last months salary - which I was entitled to by Kuwait law - to balance my banc account by paying money into it?
- If you are posting about loans, for instance to buy a car, you know very well that it was not possible from the beginning. Jazeera did not help, did not support at all to get a loan. Either you had warrantor being a Kuwaiti or you did not get a loan at all. Why are you now blaming me/us for these facts?
- If you talk about "integrity of each other", I remember all of you (meaning all of the CPTs who were that time with Jazeera) called and asked the management to start upgrading, asked to stick to the contract. You were as successful as we had been. Remember, later on, we had 4 FOs for 2 A320s and no outlook at all to be upgraded within a reasonable time. Friends of the Kuwaitis CPTs from Kuwait Airways were taken, one by one, becoming a total number of around 15 CPTs to join the airline in spring 2006 blocking CPT-positions for a MIM of a year or more! And then - it was said by the DFO - THEN we start assessment, meaning, a candidate waits to this end, being THEN assessed having a great chance not to succeed. I grew up in a social environment learning and adopting social behaviour. But also this education told me that somewhen comes a point where you have to make a decision! I was sorry for my colleagues who had no opportunity but staying, because of familiy and expenses-reasons. But this does not mean that I have to stay in order to be one of two supporters! I am sure, you would not decide different, being in the same situation!
- Also when I left, it was not suddenly, not at all! After the new COO had been with us for a while, I spoke with him and told him about my personal situation. I also told him to leave the company after 3 months, if my upgrade was not in an assured schedule. This was a very clear talk and he was informed in detaills. Talking about moral aspects - it was clear for the company that I will leave after these 3 months. You can say, I did not resign formaly, I agree, but the COO fully understood the gravity of the situation. But finally, I was terminated at the end of the 3rd month, which coalated with my decision not to return.
I wish all (ex-colleagues, fellow pilots and management) Merry Christmas
S-JZR