EK resuming DEC interviews
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Any local pilot with who can’t fill your seat for whatever reason ( may it be convincing or not) can say just about the same about expats invading his country and taking his opportunity, but this was never the case since its known to all that it’s a matter of supply and demand and you cant run a company with emotions, so cool down or walk away.
Over and out
PS, where did your old post go?
Over and out
PS, where did your old post go?
Join Date: Feb 2005
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LHR Man, whilst most will silently agree with you, the majority are just waiting their time in the left seat to become sufficient to apply for the next decent DEC job that shows up. My advice? put up, shut up and get the hours in as P1, then show EK where your loyalties lie by getting a decent paid job as a DEC with an agency. Remember, as an expat pilot you are not loyal, neither should you expect 'loyalty' in return. Buddy, it is you against the world and the sooner you realise that the better for you and your family. Get the time in, enjoy the fun times, but do not expect anything back from this lot.
One thing that changed my perspective was that of not becoming the victim. I am now the bloodsucker on the back of this camel, not the other way around. I am the parasite, the leech, the rash on the skin. The difference between you and the likes of TCAS is that he knew that a long time ago. He is in it for himself not you, not I, but only for him. Never expect to be protected by the likes of those that occupy the 2nd floor, but admit now to yourself that it is you to whom you are loyal to. No company, no individual is worth your time now, but your time is invaluable to yourself. Accept that and you are on the path to true enlightenment! You'd pay a lot of money elsewhere for that advice!!
One thing that changed my perspective was that of not becoming the victim. I am now the bloodsucker on the back of this camel, not the other way around. I am the parasite, the leech, the rash on the skin. The difference between you and the likes of TCAS is that he knew that a long time ago. He is in it for himself not you, not I, but only for him. Never expect to be protected by the likes of those that occupy the 2nd floor, but admit now to yourself that it is you to whom you are loyal to. No company, no individual is worth your time now, but your time is invaluable to yourself. Accept that and you are on the path to true enlightenment! You'd pay a lot of money elsewhere for that advice!!
Last edited by Dissapointed; 21st Apr 2005 at 19:11.
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LRH Man
Know any BA guys do you ?
Very few content happy ones ! ( Not sub 20 years service anyway )
Different problems, but none the less plenty of them.
I.e., BA swallows up a failing airline and within a couple of years those guys are all integrated into the Mainline seniority ( remember Dan Air, City Flyer Express etc ) due to the loving union pressure.
Bingo command set back !
EK – Same thing different hat on.
Any BA / Air France boys got 777 / 330 / 340 commands in less than 10 years ?
How about cabin crew earning considerably more than pilots !
Calm down man ! Stop abusing innocent professional aviators,
Get yourself a hobby, and wait your turn.
ps
Very glad your original post has been removed
dissapointed's advice is spot on.
Know any BA guys do you ?
Very few content happy ones ! ( Not sub 20 years service anyway )
Different problems, but none the less plenty of them.
I.e., BA swallows up a failing airline and within a couple of years those guys are all integrated into the Mainline seniority ( remember Dan Air, City Flyer Express etc ) due to the loving union pressure.
Bingo command set back !
EK – Same thing different hat on.
Any BA / Air France boys got 777 / 330 / 340 commands in less than 10 years ?
How about cabin crew earning considerably more than pilots !
Calm down man ! Stop abusing innocent professional aviators,
Get yourself a hobby, and wait your turn.
ps
Very glad your original post has been removed
dissapointed's advice is spot on.
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I think the problem here is really that EK moves the goal posts all over the place, and alters conditions of service as they wish. Many of the F/O's who have been affected by the DEC's joined before DEC's were employed. They thought they were joining an airline like CX (pax fleet), that offers career progression through ranks for expats, and supplements the numbers with national cadets. But after joining, the DEC issue was thrown at them. And EK does not pay F/O's with families enough to sit around for too long in the right seat, especially given inflation here and the demise of the USD. Some of you may remember the meeting in Oct 2000, when the command requirements were altered from 4 PPC's and 4,500 hrs, to 4 years and 8,000 hrs. And as an FO at the time, I remember how p*ssed off that made me, because I could see the now airline president using it as an excuse to get DECs back then. This is not a pro or anti DEC comment, just one to say I know how the FO's feel, and how nice it would be for EK to actually leave our contracts alone.
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Its OK some of the guys are setting up a recruitment agency, its legal i think , unlike a union ........
A list of people intending to resign is being compiled so hopefully a mass resignation can be employed on a certain future date, hold back a little if you can otherwise get out of this mess.
About SIA Cargo the pay would appear to be about double what an EK Captain gets if you have no kids its a way better deal.....
A list of people intending to resign is being compiled so hopefully a mass resignation can be employed on a certain future date, hold back a little if you can otherwise get out of this mess.
About SIA Cargo the pay would appear to be about double what an EK Captain gets if you have no kids its a way better deal.....
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not only is the money better but living there is a great deal more pleasant all round.
you can send your kids to good schools which cost less than in dubai.
im no great fan of SIA but it beats emirates hands down if you are a capt.
you can send your kids to good schools which cost less than in dubai.
im no great fan of SIA but it beats emirates hands down if you are a capt.
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Al-PARC???
Hi,
Trashed Aviator, what's this about a recruitment agency?? Haven't heard anything about it-would you care to elaborate? I have to say I like the sound of it. Don't seem to be that many LHS jobs out there for 'Bus drivers whatever about our 3 times 7 colleagues. BTW did not miss the significance of the joint resignation date.
Happy flying
Trashed Aviator, what's this about a recruitment agency?? Haven't heard anything about it-would you care to elaborate? I have to say I like the sound of it. Don't seem to be that many LHS jobs out there for 'Bus drivers whatever about our 3 times 7 colleagues. BTW did not miss the significance of the joint resignation date.
Happy flying
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Thanks for the words of encourgement from you thoughtful pilots. You do have well metioned points and I will try to follow them. However I have to take issue with GULFA who said that the DEC are innocent aviators. They are not innocnet and should not be treated as such. They knew the consquences of their actions when they applied (and no one forced them to apply) and even when they came to Dubai for a visit. It is industry knowledge weather fair or not that someone who jumps someones seniority or takes anothers jobs is a pretty low person with no honor. This should not change.
A fellow pilot put in his post that I should get my P1 and get out. That is my intention but I am having a hard time getting that P1 time when my commnad keeps getting further and further away from me, or at least appears to be anyway. If no DECs came the company would have to upgrade us qualified FOs who are jerking gear for DECs who never flew a widebody.
A fellow pilot put in his post that I should get my P1 and get out. That is my intention but I am having a hard time getting that P1 time when my commnad keeps getting further and further away from me, or at least appears to be anyway. If no DECs came the company would have to upgrade us qualified FOs who are jerking gear for DECs who never flew a widebody.
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LHR Rain
There are very few airlines that employ expatriates that don't have a DEC system, especially in the Middle East, although it is common practice in any rapidly expanding airline, even in Europe and Australia. Only a few airlines, like long established national carriers, are able to offer a protected seniority system, you may not like it but if you plan to stay out in the expat. world you will make life a lot easier for yourself if you get used to it. If you try and give DECs a hard time you will certainly make life very hard for yourself.
In this instance I believe that it is you that is out of step and everyone else that is in step. I agree that in a perfect world there would be no need for DEC. I too 'suffered' from them many years ago and then due to circumstances I had no control over eventually became one. Aviation is no different to any other industry, you sell your product to the highest bidder if you are working as an expat and the better your product the better the deal. I don't think honour comes into it as much as plain old family economics!
You may feel that you have been mislead and badly treated by your employer but there is nothing new to that anywhere and the quicker you drop it as an issue and get on with enjoying life the quicker the time will pass until you are in the LHS. If you dwell on it then it will eat you away like an acid or a cancer and quite possibly ruin your chances of a command.
Just a thought, when you have achieved the LHS and got some useful command time under your belt are you going to stay where you are until pension time or will you then go off looking for a job elsewhere? And if you do leave will you be looking for a job as a captain or as an F/O?
In this instance I believe that it is you that is out of step and everyone else that is in step. I agree that in a perfect world there would be no need for DEC. I too 'suffered' from them many years ago and then due to circumstances I had no control over eventually became one. Aviation is no different to any other industry, you sell your product to the highest bidder if you are working as an expat and the better your product the better the deal. I don't think honour comes into it as much as plain old family economics!
You may feel that you have been mislead and badly treated by your employer but there is nothing new to that anywhere and the quicker you drop it as an issue and get on with enjoying life the quicker the time will pass until you are in the LHS. If you dwell on it then it will eat you away like an acid or a cancer and quite possibly ruin your chances of a command.
Just a thought, when you have achieved the LHS and got some useful command time under your belt are you going to stay where you are until pension time or will you then go off looking for a job elsewhere? And if you do leave will you be looking for a job as a captain or as an F/O?
Last edited by BlueEagle; 21st Apr 2005 at 23:09.
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LHR,
it was on PPRUNE for over 2 years that EK is taking DEC's and that the time to command is more than 5 years but you did not listen, so be a man and live with your bad decision to join EK.
it was on PPRUNE for over 2 years that EK is taking DEC's and that the time to command is more than 5 years but you did not listen, so be a man and live with your bad decision to join EK.
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I would never take someones job and try to jump the seniority list. Simple economics does not equate to trying to screw my fellow pilot. I metioned before that this industry would be much better off if we did not have so many self centered pilots only looking out for themselves.
I was long here at EK before they announced (in a backhanded way) that they would employ DECs. Talk about moving the goalposts!
I was long here at EK before they announced (in a backhanded way) that they would employ DECs. Talk about moving the goalposts!
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Yes, but now that, they are here, so live with it...or get an ullcer(?) Nothing you say or do will change that. DEC pilots were here when you started. Loads of them. EK just hasnt recruited any for a while. ME airlines have always employed DECs from time to time. With 44 A380 and 26 B773-ER knocking on the door surely there are commands for everyone.
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I think we're all disappointed with this DEC development, but the blame is not to those that have joined. You might find yourself in the same position one day and opportunity knocks. It's a great option for those from different backgrounds, especially if you've never flown an airbus.........what a win ! That's my issue. Fine to supplement expansion with some highly qualified individuals, but we have many questionable people to say the least, and some that have zero time on type. DEC's in training if you will. There are too many highly capable F/O's that should be trained immediately and given their opportunity inside the magic three years. DEC's should be secondary to looking after current employees in good standing.
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LHR Man,
You didn’t answer Blue Eagles question
Just a thought, when you have achieved the LHS and got some useful command time under your belt, are you going to stay where you are until pension time or will you then go off looking for a job elsewhere? And if you do leave will you be looking for a job as a captain or as an F/O?
You didn’t answer Blue Eagles question
Just a thought, when you have achieved the LHS and got some useful command time under your belt, are you going to stay where you are until pension time or will you then go off looking for a job elsewhere? And if you do leave will you be looking for a job as a captain or as an F/O?
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LHR,
EK said they will hire DEC at the famous meeting 2001, when you were here that time you would have been in the left hand seat by now, but I guess you weren't, thats why slow down and take it easy.
PS: didnt you say you just want LHS time and the you are out of here? Guess then with your LHS time you just want go somehwere else as DEC.
EK said they will hire DEC at the famous meeting 2001, when you were here that time you would have been in the left hand seat by now, but I guess you weren't, thats why slow down and take it easy.
PS: didnt you say you just want LHS time and the you are out of here? Guess then with your LHS time you just want go somehwere else as DEC.
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As a start go to pilotpointer.com , links to jobs there.
still trying to set up a central base or a website , we have many pilots from all over the world here so it will have to be a team effort.
China airlines has large orders looming we may be able to approach them as a group , they tend to have offshore bases for long haul pilots and money is better....
still trying to set up a central base or a website , we have many pilots from all over the world here so it will have to be a team effort.
China airlines has large orders looming we may be able to approach them as a group , they tend to have offshore bases for long haul pilots and money is better....
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Hi LHR,
how do u feel to take an arabs F/O job here in the UAE. It doesnt matter if u are an expat fo or capt. With ur attitude u should never get an upgrade and very probably u will never get it.
I think u failed in your home country and ur previous little airline as a bush pilot otherwise you wouldnt leave. So pls tell us if u leave EK are you gonna start as a Fo or Capt.
how do u feel to take an arabs F/O job here in the UAE. It doesnt matter if u are an expat fo or capt. With ur attitude u should never get an upgrade and very probably u will never get it.
I think u failed in your home country and ur previous little airline as a bush pilot otherwise you wouldnt leave. So pls tell us if u leave EK are you gonna start as a Fo or Capt.
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First of all when I came to the middle east I didn't jump anyone on the seniroty list. I was hired at EK and went to the bottom of the list and have slowly moved up. I can't imiagine the Arabs being upset that we are taking "their jobs" when EK has a hard enough time filling their slots. When an opportunity presents itself with any airline in Europe I will be on the first plane out of the sand. Now having said that we all know that very few airlines on the continet allow DECs. Yes I know some of the charter airlines from time to time do it but I can guarentee everyone on this board that I will not take somones job or jump any seniority list.
I thought EK would be a good job with no taxes (little did I know that they have huge hidden taxes!) and a place to live. I believe we are better off on the continent with the labor laws in place even if a few pilots believe you can do better off in the sand. Just my thoughts, fire away!
I thought EK would be a good job with no taxes (little did I know that they have huge hidden taxes!) and a place to live. I believe we are better off on the continent with the labor laws in place even if a few pilots believe you can do better off in the sand. Just my thoughts, fire away!
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LHR, As you will be starting from the bottom of a senority list as an FO again it's probably best that you leave ASAP.
With the size of the hole you have dug for yourself, you must be getting close to the south pole, probably better to start looking for a job in the Southern Hemisphere.
NT
With the size of the hole you have dug for yourself, you must be getting close to the south pole, probably better to start looking for a job in the Southern Hemisphere.
NT