The Mood At EK
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: If you can pronounce my last name, I'll tell ya!
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Mood At EK
Hey everyone,
I understand there has been some comflict at EK between managment and pilots and that some people were leaving. I was wondering if this is still so or if managment and pilots have reached some kind of solution. BTW, I doubt it but does Emirates have a union?
Safe Flying!
I understand there has been some comflict at EK between managment and pilots and that some people were leaving. I was wondering if this is still so or if managment and pilots have reached some kind of solution. BTW, I doubt it but does Emirates have a union?
Safe Flying!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sandy beach
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lots of talk but little in the way of action. The reality is that vast majority are quite happy and we'd all like to make more money and work less, but it's not the case. No union, but I don't see that as a bad thing. All in all, good place to sit through the storm of aviation.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fortunately after months of soul searching and people being moved out of management positions, the management has developed a solution that seems to suit everyone.
They change our conditions of service any time they like, without consulting the work force, and if we don't like it we can leave.
Seems to be working OK so far.
Saltaire says that "the vast majority are happy".
My experience is that is not the case. The recent change in the way flying hours are recorded has, yet again, raised concerns as to where this job is headed.
In theory if you fly a full month of 4 man crews, it is possible to be rostered for 150hrs. I'm not sure if that can be physically achieved, but the rule change allows for it. On 3 man crew you can be rostered for 133 hrs.
At present it is unlikely that anyone will fly a whole month of augmented flights, but when we have 30 something 777-300ER's and 50 380's, it might be a different case.
So as soon as a few guys start earning 50 hours of overtime, you can standby for the changes as to how productivity pay is calculated. (that's just me speculating)
They change our conditions of service any time they like, without consulting the work force, and if we don't like it we can leave.
Seems to be working OK so far.
Saltaire says that "the vast majority are happy".
My experience is that is not the case. The recent change in the way flying hours are recorded has, yet again, raised concerns as to where this job is headed.
In theory if you fly a full month of 4 man crews, it is possible to be rostered for 150hrs. I'm not sure if that can be physically achieved, but the rule change allows for it. On 3 man crew you can be rostered for 133 hrs.
At present it is unlikely that anyone will fly a whole month of augmented flights, but when we have 30 something 777-300ER's and 50 380's, it might be a different case.
So as soon as a few guys start earning 50 hours of overtime, you can standby for the changes as to how productivity pay is calculated. (that's just me speculating)
6100
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What Desert Knight meant to say was:
There are plenty of pissed off people due to current rostering practices, lack of pay increases, unilateral changes in conditions. But the sad reality is that this is still one of the best expat jobs going. That is not an endorsement of this job, but a reflection on how crappy the other jobs on offer are. That is one of the reasons not too many are leaving.
It is my guess that the situation isn't going to change any time soon. So I don't think you will see many guys leaving for greener pastures, because I dont think they exist.
There are plenty of pissed off people due to current rostering practices, lack of pay increases, unilateral changes in conditions. But the sad reality is that this is still one of the best expat jobs going. That is not an endorsement of this job, but a reflection on how crappy the other jobs on offer are. That is one of the reasons not too many are leaving.
It is my guess that the situation isn't going to change any time soon. So I don't think you will see many guys leaving for greener pastures, because I dont think they exist.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More than one way to skin the cat...
If the US DOT/FAA find out about this 150/133 monthly hour business, the UAE will slip into Category Two PDQ, provided of course that a pilot actually operated these numbers.
Perhaps a word to the NY FSDO would be in order.
Perhaps a word to the NY FSDO would be in order.
Think your mood re EK is based solely upon your own terms of reference.
If you come from a country where the sun does not shine much, your passport is of the right colour to allow your kids to get a school place easily, and you luck in with accomodation, you will have a great time, and wonder why others would think of complaining.
If however, you are use to seeing the sun in the sky without the clouds, and you have to wait for months/years to get the kids a place at school or your accomodation is on the airfield cargo loading area your impression may be somewhat different.
As has been said before, the airline bean counter is the ruin of this industry. Many at EK are looking elsewhere. But they will only leave if the deal is a lot better than what they are on now. Makes sense really. Think its the same in most airlines.
To come here thinking this is holy grail of airline jobs is very wrong. It is just another airline job....with all the problems that come along with this kind of work. However you have no union to protect you, and a contract written in sand.
The mood has changed dramatically in past few years.
Many of the fellas I fly with state that things are much different from what they were lead to believe from both the company, and from their mates that were already here. Quite a few are uncertain if it was the correct decision to pack up and move to the desert. Then again, some others want to stay here forever.
If you come from a country where the sun does not shine much, your passport is of the right colour to allow your kids to get a school place easily, and you luck in with accomodation, you will have a great time, and wonder why others would think of complaining.
If however, you are use to seeing the sun in the sky without the clouds, and you have to wait for months/years to get the kids a place at school or your accomodation is on the airfield cargo loading area your impression may be somewhat different.
As has been said before, the airline bean counter is the ruin of this industry. Many at EK are looking elsewhere. But they will only leave if the deal is a lot better than what they are on now. Makes sense really. Think its the same in most airlines.
To come here thinking this is holy grail of airline jobs is very wrong. It is just another airline job....with all the problems that come along with this kind of work. However you have no union to protect you, and a contract written in sand.
The mood has changed dramatically in past few years.
Many of the fellas I fly with state that things are much different from what they were lead to believe from both the company, and from their mates that were already here. Quite a few are uncertain if it was the correct decision to pack up and move to the desert. Then again, some others want to stay here forever.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: If you can pronounce my last name, I'll tell ya!
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well its definetly the attitude that one has. For some, its no big deal whether or not their is a union. I have worked a few (non aviation) jobs, where unions have ruined the company and it was visible by the lack of work or production made. Others have stated Emirates is not the best place to work, but for an expat its better than the majority of airlines out there.
I think whether the desert was or wasn't what you were led to believe, it could be turn out to be a great experience and adventure if you let it be. And you can move back home or elsewhere. Thats the beauty of being an expat and its what draws more and more pilots. Instead of being at home and having your company live day by day (US AIRWAYS for example), and have to be involved in all of that union dirt, you can just enjoy being somewhere else and maybe learning a new language or seeing other parts of the world that maybe your home airline doesn't fly to.
All in all, I think its the attitude of the pilot. Sometimes people fight over the luxuries they never really took advantage back home, but are used to having it all. If there is a good number of pilots that say its a great place to work, then thats good enough for me.
Happy Landings
I think whether the desert was or wasn't what you were led to believe, it could be turn out to be a great experience and adventure if you let it be. And you can move back home or elsewhere. Thats the beauty of being an expat and its what draws more and more pilots. Instead of being at home and having your company live day by day (US AIRWAYS for example), and have to be involved in all of that union dirt, you can just enjoy being somewhere else and maybe learning a new language or seeing other parts of the world that maybe your home airline doesn't fly to.
All in all, I think its the attitude of the pilot. Sometimes people fight over the luxuries they never really took advantage back home, but are used to having it all. If there is a good number of pilots that say its a great place to work, then thats good enough for me.
Happy Landings
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bound_for_dubai
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah
We've all heard it and seen it before. Take off your rose coloured glasses, smell the coffee and see it how it really is.
I'm sure your current job sucks. But so will this one. I just hope that after all the heartache of packing up and coming here you accept that you did it of your own free will, contrary to the advice you may have read here.
Hey ernie,
hows the hols dude.
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah
We've all heard it and seen it before. Take off your rose coloured glasses, smell the coffee and see it how it really is.
I'm sure your current job sucks. But so will this one. I just hope that after all the heartache of packing up and coming here you accept that you did it of your own free will, contrary to the advice you may have read here.
Hey ernie,
hows the hols dude.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: If you can pronounce my last name, I'll tell ya!
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I didn't say it was perfect there. Everyone has their issues. For someone like me with no dependants and young, the sky is the limit. For someone with a family and nearing retirement its a different story. Hope I didn't sound to optimistic 
bound for dubai...you don't know this fella EK_Dantos do you? he was that brat that was sinbinned a few months ago from this forum.
You kinda sound the same.
Or do all Canadian Kids learning to fly want to join EK...hmmm.
Don
You kinda sound the same.
Or do all Canadian Kids learning to fly want to join EK...hmmm.
Don
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dubai
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you move to Dubai with your family, then a lot depends upon the fact if they are happy or not and this irrespective of the job satisfaction.
PPRuNe will NOT give you that information.
411 A
And that goes for Ethihad too......same CAA ....interesting game EK is playing there
Now that\'s what I like about the States........if..they implement what they claim it\'s OK
PPRuNe will NOT give you that information.
411 A
More than one way to skin the cat...
If the US DOT/FAA find out about this 150/133 monthly hour business, the UAE will slip into Category Two PDQ, provided of course that a pilot actually operated these numbers.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: If you can pronounce my last name, I'll tell ya!
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Don,
There are a great number of young pilots wanting to join not only Emirates but Cathay and Singapore. I think majority want to fly for Cathay. Of course less than half ever make it anyways. The flight centre came by to do a survey last year and found out 17 out of 18 pilots want to move overseas, majority to asia.
Don't be insulted by our arrogance, I'm sure everyone was at one time the same they just don't know it. That of course changes with experience and with situations. Emirates is like gold here. The older pilots here either don't know about it, or they think its a rat hole. The younger generation sees it as the "golden opportunity" which they may be alittle misled but thats for them to figure out for themselves. But has really been advertised with their new routes and aircraft orders and to some who are used to hearing bankruptcies, layoffs and low hiring, thats a sign of hope for the industry.
Happy Flying
There are a great number of young pilots wanting to join not only Emirates but Cathay and Singapore. I think majority want to fly for Cathay. Of course less than half ever make it anyways. The flight centre came by to do a survey last year and found out 17 out of 18 pilots want to move overseas, majority to asia.
Don't be insulted by our arrogance, I'm sure everyone was at one time the same they just don't know it. That of course changes with experience and with situations. Emirates is like gold here. The older pilots here either don't know about it, or they think its a rat hole. The younger generation sees it as the "golden opportunity" which they may be alittle misled but thats for them to figure out for themselves. But has really been advertised with their new routes and aircraft orders and to some who are used to hearing bankruptcies, layoffs and low hiring, thats a sign of hope for the industry.
Happy Flying
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[
Yet again the young are choosing to relearn what the old guys alread know.
That's one of the main reasons that aircraft and stockmarkets will continue to crash.
The older pilots here either don't know about it, or they think its a rat hole
That's one of the main reasons that aircraft and stockmarkets will continue to crash.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: If you can pronounce my last name, I'll tell ya!
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So is that to say you have any personal regrets to coming to Dubai? Is it just the company or the life there? I hear from some people that the people there are nice and then I hear horror stories of people getting their teeth smashed in by the police for speeding. I can't find any info on the net so I might as well hear it from you guys.