Gulf Air Housing & Conditions of service (threads merged)
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Gulf Air Housing & Conditions of service (threads merged)
Hi. If you join as F/O on the Gulf Traveller 767 fleet - what to exspect. A while ago there many negative words in this forum about GF - but I am still tempted.
- Payment
- Days on off
- General conditions and so on...........
- How is Abu Dahbi ?
- How is it to be a F/O in GF
- Exp. upgrade - any chance.
- Anything you might think worth consider
Many thanks. Twin2040
- Payment
- Days on off
- General conditions and so on...........
- How is Abu Dahbi ?
- How is it to be a F/O in GF
- Exp. upgrade - any chance.
- Anything you might think worth consider
Many thanks. Twin2040
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hi twin, I am trying to find out the same thing for A320 drivers, but apoarently no one is willing to spend any word on GF...
good luck by the way....
cheers, Bugs
good luck by the way....
cheers, Bugs
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If you guys are looking for a good career job then I can asure you GF will not disappoint you, if however you're out looking for a quick upgrade and a move you're knocking on the wrong door. Nice airline good people, good atmosphere to work in.
We got one hell of a work-a-holick president who will make this airline work. I can assure you.
Cheers
Snails
We got one hell of a work-a-holick president who will make this airline work. I can assure you.
Cheers
Snails
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Captain Snails
I think you are being professionally irresponsible in your advice. These guys will never be promoted and how can you guarrantee the long term viability of Gulf Air?
Gentleman.
About a resignation a week at the moment from F/O's who have not been in the company for long. There is an aviation boom going on and to blow the opportunity on Gulf Air foolhardy.
The money is the worst in the Gulf and you will not be promoted. What you are promosided in your interview will not turn up-accomadation free and furnished etc.
As an F/O you will struggle financially. Bahrain, coupled with the very difficult cockpit and company work environment, is not worth the stress. Come if you have too!
You will make about 4K Canadian a month-excluding meagre allowances.
I think you are being professionally irresponsible in your advice. These guys will never be promoted and how can you guarrantee the long term viability of Gulf Air?
Gentleman.
About a resignation a week at the moment from F/O's who have not been in the company for long. There is an aviation boom going on and to blow the opportunity on Gulf Air foolhardy.
The money is the worst in the Gulf and you will not be promoted. What you are promosided in your interview will not turn up-accomadation free and furnished etc.
As an F/O you will struggle financially. Bahrain, coupled with the very difficult cockpit and company work environment, is not worth the stress. Come if you have too!
You will make about 4K Canadian a month-excluding meagre allowances.
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I have been reading these postings about GF and the conditions. But nobody really gave facts that match reality. Actually nobody gave any facts so here are my facts...
I just joined 3 months ago. I am on the B767, based in AUH.
It ain't perfect, but it does the trick and it does pay the bills.So I do disagree a bit with bagshaw crusher.
To say that you will struggle financially is not quite accurate.
It depends upon your situation.
For myself being a single guy, i do manage . I do have a mortage and a few bills to pay back home (Calif). And i still manage to put some money away. I don't splurge like crazy, But I do treat for drinks once in a while. Now if you have children, it could get tight. GF is not giving enough to pay for the schooling fees (from what i hear from those who have kids).
As far as upgrade, I don't know. I just suggest that if you join, you don't get your hopes too high, you might be disappointed.
Of course people quit all the time. (But people even quit Ek, we have a few here.) Everybody has different reasons...
But for those who are contemplating GF. I would recommend it.
Money is not all that bad.
Basically for an FO, including all the allowances (assuming single and no kids)[ you have to include the allowances, that is your pay],
you will roughly get:
the amounts are in DHs (Local UAE money) / Monthly
9780 Basic pay
1760 Tech pay
5500 Housing
2200 Per diem ( 9 Dhs per hour assuming 250 hours)
600 Transport
150 Communication
Total is 20000 Dhs. with a fixed rate of 1 US $ = 3.65 DHS
You end up with about 5400 US $ a month for an F/O. from talking to a few captains, you will get maybe about 7000 US$, but don't quote me on this.
Most of the guys open bank accounts with HSBC. there you get credit card, loans, etc....
Again i am single. If you have kids and you might want to have the spouse get a job...(to cover for the weak schooling fees provided by GF)
As far as housing is concerned, GF is not doing anything. They still are claiming to provide housing, but there is nothing for the pilots in AUH. I don't know for BAH (the Airbus guys)
I am staying at the hotel ( a bunch of us are). it is not the cheapest way, but a convenient (and fun) way.
I spend about 4500 Dhs a month for the hotel.
If you want to rent a flat. You can get one from 30000 Dhs/year (if you don't mind the neighborhood) and up. But then you may have to get a car/furniture etc.. and for these items I don't know what the costs are.
Besides housing costs, living costs ( food/telephone/taxis...) are really inexpensive in AUh ( compared to the US) .
you can have a very decent meal for 50 Dhs ( 14 US). Shopping is easy and you get anything you want. all the major chains are here. And if they aren't in AUH, there is DXB next door.
taxis are dirt cheap ( I hear the fares may go up like DXB).
For those who smoke, bad place to quit. a carton of Marlboro cost 44 DHs (12 US$)
These are facts, So for those who are interested in joining , you now have my facts. Just make your own judgement based on your own situation.
if you are married, you get a little more housing and you get a minor allowance for the wife. You also get schooling fees, which from what I hear equate to about 1/3 of what is required. So here you are at loss.
If you work on your days off you get, in AUH, an extra 1000 DHs (270 US $) a day (and you get the day off back). To me, it is quite a bit of money. And it does happen. (I had 4 last month)
As far as leave, you get 52 days per year. the contract says 42, but you also get 10 days for national hoildays and 2 days for travel. Now That doesn't sound all that bad to me. you get them in 2X26 days periods. Of course they are so short of crews, they may cancel your leave. Then it is up to you to decide what to do.You will get it back, but when is the question.
(Personally, My limits are pay and leave, don't touch either or else)
As far as schedules, everybody has roughly the same. you basically fly all the time. You get 8 days off every 28 days (sometimes 9/10). You may get standby days and you will get trips. It is not all night flying .
you will go to,
India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, bengladesh, Tanzania, Kenya, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Egypt.
That is basically it ,if you are a 767 guy bound to AUH.
You will have between 7-10 nights away every roster period.
Cockpit atmosphere. I am having a good time. I so far flew with great captains (locals/expats.And to tell you the truth, the locals are on the average more fun than some of the expats who think their S### don't stink, you know who you you are
). I am sure there are a few As#### but they are everywhere.
Medical Benefit. It is not all that great, but it does work.But It is paid for by the company including prescriptions.
No Dental (except for emergency), that I know of.
Everything here happens very slowly. Don't come here if your blood boils easily. Because you will explode !!!!
Make your decision. if you have no job ,this not a bad place to be for a while. If something better comes your way, of course, do what you have to do. I know I would..
yes the company's future is looking promising. But You all know the saying, we will believe it when we fly it. It ain't like EK or QR as far airplanes orders, but slowly it is coming along.
But if that is what you want ,go to EK or QR. Nobody is forcing anybody.
Good Luck to all.
By the way i am not management, just a new guy that is giving his first impressions on the company. It will probably change with time. it always does..
I will second Capt Snails, the CEO is a pretty cool cat. I was passing thru BAH last week and he was greeting the pax at the arrival off the airplane and in blue jeans. I haven't seen this before, (except at JetBlue
)
I just joined 3 months ago. I am on the B767, based in AUH.
It ain't perfect, but it does the trick and it does pay the bills.So I do disagree a bit with bagshaw crusher.
To say that you will struggle financially is not quite accurate.
It depends upon your situation.
For myself being a single guy, i do manage . I do have a mortage and a few bills to pay back home (Calif). And i still manage to put some money away. I don't splurge like crazy, But I do treat for drinks once in a while. Now if you have children, it could get tight. GF is not giving enough to pay for the schooling fees (from what i hear from those who have kids).
As far as upgrade, I don't know. I just suggest that if you join, you don't get your hopes too high, you might be disappointed.
Of course people quit all the time. (But people even quit Ek, we have a few here.) Everybody has different reasons...
But for those who are contemplating GF. I would recommend it.
Money is not all that bad.
Basically for an FO, including all the allowances (assuming single and no kids)[ you have to include the allowances, that is your pay],
you will roughly get:
the amounts are in DHs (Local UAE money) / Monthly
9780 Basic pay
1760 Tech pay
5500 Housing
2200 Per diem ( 9 Dhs per hour assuming 250 hours)
600 Transport
150 Communication
Total is 20000 Dhs. with a fixed rate of 1 US $ = 3.65 DHS
You end up with about 5400 US $ a month for an F/O. from talking to a few captains, you will get maybe about 7000 US$, but don't quote me on this.
Most of the guys open bank accounts with HSBC. there you get credit card, loans, etc....
Again i am single. If you have kids and you might want to have the spouse get a job...(to cover for the weak schooling fees provided by GF)
As far as housing is concerned, GF is not doing anything. They still are claiming to provide housing, but there is nothing for the pilots in AUH. I don't know for BAH (the Airbus guys)
I am staying at the hotel ( a bunch of us are). it is not the cheapest way, but a convenient (and fun) way.
I spend about 4500 Dhs a month for the hotel.
If you want to rent a flat. You can get one from 30000 Dhs/year (if you don't mind the neighborhood) and up. But then you may have to get a car/furniture etc.. and for these items I don't know what the costs are.
Besides housing costs, living costs ( food/telephone/taxis...) are really inexpensive in AUh ( compared to the US) .
you can have a very decent meal for 50 Dhs ( 14 US). Shopping is easy and you get anything you want. all the major chains are here. And if they aren't in AUH, there is DXB next door.
taxis are dirt cheap ( I hear the fares may go up like DXB).
For those who smoke, bad place to quit. a carton of Marlboro cost 44 DHs (12 US$)
These are facts, So for those who are interested in joining , you now have my facts. Just make your own judgement based on your own situation.
if you are married, you get a little more housing and you get a minor allowance for the wife. You also get schooling fees, which from what I hear equate to about 1/3 of what is required. So here you are at loss.
If you work on your days off you get, in AUH, an extra 1000 DHs (270 US $) a day (and you get the day off back). To me, it is quite a bit of money. And it does happen. (I had 4 last month)
As far as leave, you get 52 days per year. the contract says 42, but you also get 10 days for national hoildays and 2 days for travel. Now That doesn't sound all that bad to me. you get them in 2X26 days periods. Of course they are so short of crews, they may cancel your leave. Then it is up to you to decide what to do.You will get it back, but when is the question.
(Personally, My limits are pay and leave, don't touch either or else)
As far as schedules, everybody has roughly the same. you basically fly all the time. You get 8 days off every 28 days (sometimes 9/10). You may get standby days and you will get trips. It is not all night flying .
you will go to,
India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, bengladesh, Tanzania, Kenya, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Egypt.
That is basically it ,if you are a 767 guy bound to AUH.
You will have between 7-10 nights away every roster period.
Cockpit atmosphere. I am having a good time. I so far flew with great captains (locals/expats.And to tell you the truth, the locals are on the average more fun than some of the expats who think their S### don't stink, you know who you you are
). I am sure there are a few As#### but they are everywhere.Medical Benefit. It is not all that great, but it does work.But It is paid for by the company including prescriptions.
No Dental
(except for emergency), that I know of.Everything here happens very slowly. Don't come here if your blood boils easily. Because you will explode !!!!
Make your decision. if you have no job ,this not a bad place to be for a while. If something better comes your way, of course, do what you have to do. I know I would..
yes the company's future is looking promising. But You all know the saying, we will believe it when we fly it. It ain't like EK or QR as far airplanes orders, but slowly it is coming along.
But if that is what you want ,go to EK or QR. Nobody is forcing anybody.
Good Luck to all.
By the way i am not management, just a new guy that is giving his first impressions on the company. It will probably change with time. it always does..
I will second Capt Snails, the CEO is a pretty cool cat. I was passing thru BAH last week and he was greeting the pax at the arrival off the airplane and in blue jeans. I haven't seen this before, (except at JetBlue
)
Last edited by NTM; 27th Jan 2004 at 05:49.
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Bagshaw
Which part of my post did you find "professionally irresponsible" ?
Perhaps the part about long term career, well I've had one till now and frankly it was during the years of mis-management and I'm still here and so is GF stronger than ever. Unlike you I refuse to knock the airline behind the cloack of anonymity. I refuse to see the glass half empty in life, to me it's half full. I refuse to sit and bitch about everything on Pprune, I choose to do my job the best I can and feel happy about what I do have. I guess that makes me "professionally irresponsible"
For the first time ever in GF we have a professional PCE (President and Chief Executive for those who don't know) who has actually run an airline before. For the first time we have a solid management platform that Mr Hogan set up and monitors. Gone are the days of idle managers, Hogan has given his VP's and managers specific goals and timelines in which to deliver these goals, and he expects results from each and everyone.
In the short time he has the airline under his command we have come a long way and have improved our product and our image.
I say again that I for one am very confident that Hogan will make this airline shine and profit. It's not about how long to command or any of that crap it's about creating an airline that will succeed and prosper in the long run, if it does we all prosper with it. Open your eyes to the big picture and don't focus on trivial details.
If an f/o joining today is more preoccupied with when he'll get command frankly for me he has the wrong attitude. It shows me he is an opportunist and does not display long term commitment to his career and employer. In the career of any airline pilot command is a eventual and natural conclussion. It will happen but that is not the defining factor behind any job. Look at QR, I know many f/o's that left GF to go to QR for quick command, they became captains,and now they're like you Bagshaw, bitching everyday on Pprune and totally unhappy. So what's more important, career prospects or fast command, please draw your own conclusions based on your own priorities.
My friend scan touched on another subject which I would like to elaborate on as I find it intriguing. He was absolutely right in saying that many GF pilots left to go to SIN. What he failed to mention is that these people are calling our VPO daily and begging to come back to GF as the bubble of SIN burst in their face.
Without wanting to sound condescending I've been in aviation quite some time, perhaps less than others but enough to realise one thing. The grass is not always greener on the other side. It's best to work hard and develop what you have than pack it in and go in search of paradise and dreams.
I wish all F/O's thinking of GF good luck, come have a look at us if you like what you see then fine, if not we wish you all the best in your future endeavours.
Cheers
Snails
Which part of my post did you find "professionally irresponsible" ?
Perhaps the part about long term career, well I've had one till now and frankly it was during the years of mis-management and I'm still here and so is GF stronger than ever. Unlike you I refuse to knock the airline behind the cloack of anonymity. I refuse to see the glass half empty in life, to me it's half full. I refuse to sit and bitch about everything on Pprune, I choose to do my job the best I can and feel happy about what I do have. I guess that makes me "professionally irresponsible"
For the first time ever in GF we have a professional PCE (President and Chief Executive for those who don't know) who has actually run an airline before. For the first time we have a solid management platform that Mr Hogan set up and monitors. Gone are the days of idle managers, Hogan has given his VP's and managers specific goals and timelines in which to deliver these goals, and he expects results from each and everyone.
In the short time he has the airline under his command we have come a long way and have improved our product and our image.
I say again that I for one am very confident that Hogan will make this airline shine and profit. It's not about how long to command or any of that crap it's about creating an airline that will succeed and prosper in the long run, if it does we all prosper with it. Open your eyes to the big picture and don't focus on trivial details.
If an f/o joining today is more preoccupied with when he'll get command frankly for me he has the wrong attitude. It shows me he is an opportunist and does not display long term commitment to his career and employer. In the career of any airline pilot command is a eventual and natural conclussion. It will happen but that is not the defining factor behind any job. Look at QR, I know many f/o's that left GF to go to QR for quick command, they became captains,and now they're like you Bagshaw, bitching everyday on Pprune and totally unhappy. So what's more important, career prospects or fast command, please draw your own conclusions based on your own priorities.
My friend scan touched on another subject which I would like to elaborate on as I find it intriguing. He was absolutely right in saying that many GF pilots left to go to SIN. What he failed to mention is that these people are calling our VPO daily and begging to come back to GF as the bubble of SIN burst in their face.
Without wanting to sound condescending I've been in aviation quite some time, perhaps less than others but enough to realise one thing. The grass is not always greener on the other side. It's best to work hard and develop what you have than pack it in and go in search of paradise and dreams.
I wish all F/O's thinking of GF good luck, come have a look at us if you like what you see then fine, if not we wish you all the best in your future endeavours.
Cheers
Snails
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Snails
What I found unprofessional is your used car salesman beat up of Gulf Air. Young people will move families half way around the world believing they are joining a career airline due your drivel.
I believed it when I joined Gulf Air. I beleived the CEO when he told us he wanted to invest in his pilots and would never hire direct entry Captains.
I did not realise I would not be paid for almost two months nor would have to scratch, bite and kick for my basic contractual rights.
A family man will live an existance in Bahrain on an F/O's slary. He will never be promoted and who wants to live in a boring place like Bahrain and wallow in financial misery?
I am not bitching. I am a pilot giving a heads up. I am where I want to be now but had a choice before joining Gulf. I believed drivel like yours initially and joined Gulf Air. If I knew the truth I would not have.
Gulf Air is a stepping stone for all but Direct Entry Captains.
What I found unprofessional is your used car salesman beat up of Gulf Air. Young people will move families half way around the world believing they are joining a career airline due your drivel.
I believed it when I joined Gulf Air. I beleived the CEO when he told us he wanted to invest in his pilots and would never hire direct entry Captains.
I did not realise I would not be paid for almost two months nor would have to scratch, bite and kick for my basic contractual rights.
A family man will live an existance in Bahrain on an F/O's slary. He will never be promoted and who wants to live in a boring place like Bahrain and wallow in financial misery?
I am not bitching. I am a pilot giving a heads up. I am where I want to be now but had a choice before joining Gulf. I believed drivel like yours initially and joined Gulf Air. If I knew the truth I would not have.
Gulf Air is a stepping stone for all but Direct Entry Captains.
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Bagshaw,
There are a few of your countrymen still here who did not get to move on like yourself despite trying. I'm sure they are happier here than being back home doing a post round so don't be so condescending about GF. Yes you are somewhere better but GF is still better than a lot of other jobs.
What other offers did you have when you came to GF anyway? i think you'd been on the ground for a while. at least a year if my memory serves me. so GF gave you an airplane, sim training and manuals, you borrowed research material from those already here, got your hand back in to flying and subsequently passed you selection at dragon air if i'm correct.
don't knock us, you came , you took what was on offer and useful to you, and you left to a much better place. but at least be a little bit curteous to those who helped you.
And maybe start hanging around on the far east forum.
Thats it from me. i don't like saying anything unles i've just come back from the pub. which i haven't. honest.
There are a few of your countrymen still here who did not get to move on like yourself despite trying. I'm sure they are happier here than being back home doing a post round so don't be so condescending about GF. Yes you are somewhere better but GF is still better than a lot of other jobs.
What other offers did you have when you came to GF anyway? i think you'd been on the ground for a while. at least a year if my memory serves me. so GF gave you an airplane, sim training and manuals, you borrowed research material from those already here, got your hand back in to flying and subsequently passed you selection at dragon air if i'm correct.
don't knock us, you came , you took what was on offer and useful to you, and you left to a much better place. but at least be a little bit curteous to those who helped you.
And maybe start hanging around on the far east forum.
Thats it from me. i don't like saying anything unles i've just come back from the pub. which i haven't. honest.
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Bagshaw
I'll refrain from giving you the answere you deserve however I would like to say that had I known you're one of the one's that we scraped off the bottom of the barrel then perhaps I wouldn't have wasted my time with you.
Good luck to you mate in your quest to knock the company who put you back in flying. Now how professional is that?
I'll refrain from giving you the answere you deserve however I would like to say that had I known you're one of the one's that we scraped off the bottom of the barrel then perhaps I wouldn't have wasted my time with you.
Good luck to you mate in your quest to knock the company who put you back in flying. Now how professional is that?
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From what I've seen in GF in the last 18 yrs., I think North Americans especially find it very difficult to settle in as expats in the Middle East and in GF. Most of us have to give ourselves a really good talking to when we arrive, because the culture and the way things are done are so, so different. GF has given many of my erstwhile friends solid employment along with a lot of heartache, but, at the end of the day, I always found it amazing how many people who left came back inquiring about reemployment.
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ia166
Bit rich from a bloke who stood at the bar telling new joiners they should leave due no promotional prospects-as a gentleman I wont divulge the rest of your conversation.
Snails.
There was little discussion of hard contractual conditions for those interested. Gulf Air is a nicely presented airline but just giving a heads up on lack of any hope of promotion. People may get the wrong idea.
Pprune is an opportunity to reveal the real conditions of various airlines. It is not an attack ( though you take it personally ) on a company but a tangible perception and experience of a contract-
for those who may move halfway around the world.
I doubt if we know each other as your post would suggest.
Bit rich from a bloke who stood at the bar telling new joiners they should leave due no promotional prospects-as a gentleman I wont divulge the rest of your conversation.
Snails.
There was little discussion of hard contractual conditions for those interested. Gulf Air is a nicely presented airline but just giving a heads up on lack of any hope of promotion. People may get the wrong idea.
Pprune is an opportunity to reveal the real conditions of various airlines. It is not an attack ( though you take it personally ) on a company but a tangible perception and experience of a contract-
for those who may move halfway around the world.
I doubt if we know each other as your post would suggest.
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Rem,
No not at all, I'm not implying any such thing. In fact from discussions I've had I'm told that the standard is quite high.
New joining F/O's can expect to have the seniority for command (if no more fleet expansion happens) in about 6.5 - 7 years. Before someone jumps on me (and I know who) and calls me a liar I just had a discussion with an F/O from Jordan on the A340 who is in the company for 5.5 years and checked his seniority and will get his chance for command end of 2004 or beginning 2005 (as he told me).
As far as the statement "you will never be promoted" is concerned, it is utter nonsence and I speak from own experience.
Snails
No not at all, I'm not implying any such thing. In fact from discussions I've had I'm told that the standard is quite high.
New joining F/O's can expect to have the seniority for command (if no more fleet expansion happens) in about 6.5 - 7 years. Before someone jumps on me (and I know who) and calls me a liar I just had a discussion with an F/O from Jordan on the A340 who is in the company for 5.5 years and checked his seniority and will get his chance for command end of 2004 or beginning 2005 (as he told me).
As far as the statement "you will never be promoted" is concerned, it is utter nonsence and I speak from own experience.
Snails
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scanscanscan I do not believe this talk of large numbers of SQ Captains who left GF wanting to return to GF.
Of the 50+ Captains who joined SQ, certainly the first of the large batch were all B767 Captains and that was 8 years ago mostly and they all went on the B744. I cannot imagine that they want to join Gulf Traveller at Abu Dhabi flying around the Indian Sub Continent and Africa. They would not get a look in at GF on the A340 or A330.
There were a few mostly A320 Captains who went on the A340 at SQ and just 2 ex A340 Captains if my memory serves me right who left GF to go on the A340 so I suppose some of them might be interested in GF but they were the last to go on the B744 at SQ so will still be under " Bondage"
They would be better off joining EK but perhaps the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know!!!
Of the 50+ Captains who joined SQ, certainly the first of the large batch were all B767 Captains and that was 8 years ago mostly and they all went on the B744. I cannot imagine that they want to join Gulf Traveller at Abu Dhabi flying around the Indian Sub Continent and Africa. They would not get a look in at GF on the A340 or A330.
There were a few mostly A320 Captains who went on the A340 at SQ and just 2 ex A340 Captains if my memory serves me right who left GF to go on the A340 so I suppose some of them might be interested in GF but they were the last to go on the B744 at SQ so will still be under " Bondage"
They would be better off joining EK but perhaps the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know!!!
