Delta Flight #2423 returned to LAX - medical emergency -10-year-old
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Look, I think some of you might have reading comprehension issues. Further, in your posts you manifest the same behavior that you are purportedly concerned about.
If discussing the topic bothers you, there is no need for you to join the thread.
Yet, your suppression of the topic and mis/disinformation is exactly why the issue is under-reported.
To be clear, I have no morbid thoughts, nor am I writing an article, nor am I pushing any agenda. I've asked questions and answered a few. To the people that are civil and don't act like children, I appreciate your feedback. To the others, you are simply behaving like children and manifesting your own psychosis.
I deal with adolescent behaviors and people that have a lack of coping skills with my non-profit concerns, so it's very easy for me to see it's manifestation and manipulation....
Simply, there are people here who by their own words know nothing of the subject, nor medical training yet want to impose their beliefs of suppression.
Sadly, being relegated to a smaller subforum because some members can't behave themselves, is how facts get suppresed and lack of information is spread. You think you are doing a service spewing your arrogant rude views, and yet you bring nothing to the discussion.
Could I ask you to refrain, or is that too much?
To answer what I believe is a genuine question of why the topic of anaphylaxis is being brought up when she was reported to have a cardiac event, is two-fold. One, I think we can all agree that early reports are often wrong. Two, anaphylaxis can present with a cardiac event and can get undiagnosed as the underlying event... Isn't this something you would want explored....It's sort of akin to a medical report that says the person died of blood loss but not report that a murderer shot him 20 times...You can keep giving him blood, but unless you remove the bullets and stitch him up, he won't survive.
Since many don't have medical experience, I will also tell you I have been in ERs and in medical situations where the docs treat the cardiac event and have missed the underlying anaphylaxis.
So, why the visceral anger in this thread? Congratulations that your rudeness and lack of understanding has manifested in getting the thread moved. Perhaps some pilot or FA will miss reading this and it would be the difference between saving a life....Little things matter. Anger and your triggers have consequences. If you don't have something nice to say, a genuine question or information, perhaps you can simply move to another thread and type away.
FYI A trained medical professional came in and represented himself as such and confirmed the nexus between anaphylaxis and a cardiac event. I in no way claimed that was the case in this tragedy, but I know first hand how it is misdiagnosed and under reported. To quote the CDC is laughable...FYI my ex worked under the Head of the CDC and they are great at flying their Gulfstream around, not so great at providing real data...Unless it suits their agenda....But that's another topic.
So, whether in this case or not has anything to do with anaphylaxis or not, will be determined later. But creating awareness to crew members as to the potential might just save a life.
pilotmike , Why would you comment like that? The condescension is strong with you. I never claimed they would do so soon. But it isn't uncommon for family to want to spread awareness to an underlying medical condition and some even want to discuss to get over their grief. All I'm saying is, at some point they might come forward.
Pilot DAR , perhaps you are using this thread to express some suppressed emotions in your past. While I respect what you might feel, I disagree, obviously, with your assessment... We are on a forum which by it's very nature is discussion. The forum is specifically about aviation related events and issues, as is the tragedy in this thread... We are supposed to be adults, so I don't see the topic as the issue. I see the manifestation of some of the triggering by some posters as the issue. If I was to moderate, as you suggest, I would remove those types of comments that pose no value and degrade the thread.... You make a claim of no medical value...Says you...You just might be wrong.
"I had many very sad occasions to be present for telling a family member that someone had passed on, even children, and it's simply very sad - one of those things in life better discussed the least possible. I have retired from doing that, it got to be too much." --- So perhaps we can stop someone from having to give that news and save a life.
MechEngr , An allergic reaction can manifest with rapid onset. Meaning as soon as someone inhales, or bites, into something the reaction can start...You are correct and I think I already explained that EPI (adrenaline) only provides at most a 15 min. window....That's one of the reasons people with known reactions typically carry two....Though you would be surprised how even with having it available it is often not used as people don't recognize the signs and symptoms.
I will say this, as a former pilot, and former lifesaver / EMT trained civilian that has saved lives, who now spends a portion of my time on my non-profit initiatives, I find some posters here very troubling....Your condescension and lack of compassion is apparent and is a form of bullying...It creates an atmosphere of suppression and misinformation.
I ask that you simply refrain as some of us try and help others.... Aloha
If discussing the topic bothers you, there is no need for you to join the thread.
Yet, your suppression of the topic and mis/disinformation is exactly why the issue is under-reported.
To be clear, I have no morbid thoughts, nor am I writing an article, nor am I pushing any agenda. I've asked questions and answered a few. To the people that are civil and don't act like children, I appreciate your feedback. To the others, you are simply behaving like children and manifesting your own psychosis.
I deal with adolescent behaviors and people that have a lack of coping skills with my non-profit concerns, so it's very easy for me to see it's manifestation and manipulation....
Simply, there are people here who by their own words know nothing of the subject, nor medical training yet want to impose their beliefs of suppression.
Sadly, being relegated to a smaller subforum because some members can't behave themselves, is how facts get suppresed and lack of information is spread. You think you are doing a service spewing your arrogant rude views, and yet you bring nothing to the discussion.
Could I ask you to refrain, or is that too much?
To answer what I believe is a genuine question of why the topic of anaphylaxis is being brought up when she was reported to have a cardiac event, is two-fold. One, I think we can all agree that early reports are often wrong. Two, anaphylaxis can present with a cardiac event and can get undiagnosed as the underlying event... Isn't this something you would want explored....It's sort of akin to a medical report that says the person died of blood loss but not report that a murderer shot him 20 times...You can keep giving him blood, but unless you remove the bullets and stitch him up, he won't survive.
Since many don't have medical experience, I will also tell you I have been in ERs and in medical situations where the docs treat the cardiac event and have missed the underlying anaphylaxis.
So, why the visceral anger in this thread? Congratulations that your rudeness and lack of understanding has manifested in getting the thread moved. Perhaps some pilot or FA will miss reading this and it would be the difference between saving a life....Little things matter. Anger and your triggers have consequences. If you don't have something nice to say, a genuine question or information, perhaps you can simply move to another thread and type away.
FYI A trained medical professional came in and represented himself as such and confirmed the nexus between anaphylaxis and a cardiac event. I in no way claimed that was the case in this tragedy, but I know first hand how it is misdiagnosed and under reported. To quote the CDC is laughable...FYI my ex worked under the Head of the CDC and they are great at flying their Gulfstream around, not so great at providing real data...Unless it suits their agenda....But that's another topic.
So, whether in this case or not has anything to do with anaphylaxis or not, will be determined later. But creating awareness to crew members as to the potential might just save a life.
pilotmike , Why would you comment like that? The condescension is strong with you. I never claimed they would do so soon. But it isn't uncommon for family to want to spread awareness to an underlying medical condition and some even want to discuss to get over their grief. All I'm saying is, at some point they might come forward.
Pilot DAR , perhaps you are using this thread to express some suppressed emotions in your past. While I respect what you might feel, I disagree, obviously, with your assessment... We are on a forum which by it's very nature is discussion. The forum is specifically about aviation related events and issues, as is the tragedy in this thread... We are supposed to be adults, so I don't see the topic as the issue. I see the manifestation of some of the triggering by some posters as the issue. If I was to moderate, as you suggest, I would remove those types of comments that pose no value and degrade the thread.... You make a claim of no medical value...Says you...You just might be wrong.
"I had many very sad occasions to be present for telling a family member that someone had passed on, even children, and it's simply very sad - one of those things in life better discussed the least possible. I have retired from doing that, it got to be too much." --- So perhaps we can stop someone from having to give that news and save a life.
MechEngr , An allergic reaction can manifest with rapid onset. Meaning as soon as someone inhales, or bites, into something the reaction can start...You are correct and I think I already explained that EPI (adrenaline) only provides at most a 15 min. window....That's one of the reasons people with known reactions typically carry two....Though you would be surprised how even with having it available it is often not used as people don't recognize the signs and symptoms.
I will say this, as a former pilot, and former lifesaver / EMT trained civilian that has saved lives, who now spends a portion of my time on my non-profit initiatives, I find some posters here very troubling....Your condescension and lack of compassion is apparent and is a form of bullying...It creates an atmosphere of suppression and misinformation.
I ask that you simply refrain as some of us try and help others.... Aloha
Last edited by letsjet; 28th Dec 2019 at 15:31.
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In a rare event, a child had a fatal medical emergency aboard a flight.
It seems to me that in a forum populated mostly by aviation people, there is legitimate interest in the case: What happened? How was it handled? Would we do anything different in a recurrence?
It is beyond me why this had to degenerate to insults and mud slinging.
It seems to me that in a forum populated mostly by aviation people, there is legitimate interest in the case: What happened? How was it handled? Would we do anything different in a recurrence?
It is beyond me why this had to degenerate to insults and mud slinging.
Last edited by obgraham; 28th Dec 2019 at 16:05.
I think it's right that this thread has ended up in the backwaters of Pprune where few will now see it.
It ticks all the boxes of how much of a mess the internet can be at times.
It ticks all the boxes of how much of a mess the internet can be at times.
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Thanks Pilot DAR for checking back in.... Further, if you instrumental in removing some of the offending posts,I appreciate that too....
To help educate further as to why I brought up the thread and wanted to understand Deltas policy, I have provided a bit of information below. The information might be of benefit to some of you trying to learn while we wait for further facts on this specific case.
From the NIH website:
"Anaphylaxis is the most dramatic clinical presentation of allergy and is frequently a medical emergency in both paediatric and adult patients [2]. ... Cardiovascular manifestations of anaphylaxis include hypotension and shock, cardiac arrhythmias, ventricular dysfunction and cardiac arrest [7]
From a CPR website:
If the person suffering from anaphylaxis is not breathing or moving, it is time to administer potentially life saving CPR while waiting for emergency responders to arrive on the scene. CPR is an invaluable tool when properly applied. The majority of cardiac arrest victims die before EMTs are able to reach them. Performing CPR on a victim of anaphylactic shock as soon as possible can greatly increase their chances of survival.
From Harvard.edu:
" A 2006 study by Harvard Medical School researchers found evidence that anaphylaxis is vastly underreported as the cause of serious allergic reactions treated in emergency rooms — a problem, because proper diagnosis is the first step in preventing another anaphylactic reaction."
Here is a news story regarding the nexus between anaphylaxis and cardiac arrest....
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/disability-41023630/amy-may-shead-was-left-with-brain-damage-following-a-severe-allergic-reaction
"“She took one taste and had a severe allergic reaction and she went immediately into anaphylactic shock. The intenisty of that was so strong it caused a cardiac arrest.”"
So, while this specific incident is still awaiting the facts, it's important to make people, esp. those that might find themselves as first response, aware of a potential cause. It might just save someone's life... Hence the reason for the thread.
This is why I bring up the awareness when it is simply reported as "cardiac arrest" of such a young patient.
It would be easy for a coroner to find the cause of death as cardiac arrest without learning what caused the event....
To help educate further as to why I brought up the thread and wanted to understand Deltas policy, I have provided a bit of information below. The information might be of benefit to some of you trying to learn while we wait for further facts on this specific case.
From the NIH website:
"Anaphylaxis is the most dramatic clinical presentation of allergy and is frequently a medical emergency in both paediatric and adult patients [2]. ... Cardiovascular manifestations of anaphylaxis include hypotension and shock, cardiac arrhythmias, ventricular dysfunction and cardiac arrest [7]
From a CPR website:
If the person suffering from anaphylaxis is not breathing or moving, it is time to administer potentially life saving CPR while waiting for emergency responders to arrive on the scene. CPR is an invaluable tool when properly applied. The majority of cardiac arrest victims die before EMTs are able to reach them. Performing CPR on a victim of anaphylactic shock as soon as possible can greatly increase their chances of survival.
From Harvard.edu:
" A 2006 study by Harvard Medical School researchers found evidence that anaphylaxis is vastly underreported as the cause of serious allergic reactions treated in emergency rooms — a problem, because proper diagnosis is the first step in preventing another anaphylactic reaction."
Here is a news story regarding the nexus between anaphylaxis and cardiac arrest....
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/disability-41023630/amy-may-shead-was-left-with-brain-damage-following-a-severe-allergic-reaction
"“She took one taste and had a severe allergic reaction and she went immediately into anaphylactic shock. The intenisty of that was so strong it caused a cardiac arrest.”"
So, while this specific incident is still awaiting the facts, it's important to make people, esp. those that might find themselves as first response, aware of a potential cause. It might just save someone's life... Hence the reason for the thread.
This is why I bring up the awareness when it is simply reported as "cardiac arrest" of such a young patient.
It would be easy for a coroner to find the cause of death as cardiac arrest without learning what caused the event....
Thanks Pilot DAR for checking back in.... Further, if you instrumental in removing some of the offending posts,I appreciate that too....
To help educate further as to why I brought up the thread and wanted to understand Deltas policy, I have provided a bit of information below. The information might be of benefit to some of you trying to learn while we wait for further facts on this specific case.
From the NIH website:
"Anaphylaxis is the most dramatic clinical presentation of allergy and is frequently a medical emergency in both paediatric and adult patients [2]. ... Cardiovascular manifestations of anaphylaxis include hypotension and shock, cardiac arrhythmias, ventricular dysfunction and cardiac arrest [7]
From a CPR website:
If the person suffering from anaphylaxis is not breathing or moving, it is time to administer potentially life saving CPR while waiting for emergency responders to arrive on the scene. CPR is an invaluable tool when properly applied. The majority of cardiac arrest victims die before EMTs are able to reach them. Performing CPR on a victim of anaphylactic shock as soon as possible can greatly increase their chances of survival.
From Harvard.edu:
" A 2006 study by Harvard Medical School researchers found evidence that anaphylaxis is vastly underreported as the cause of serious allergic reactions treated in emergency rooms — a problem, because proper diagnosis is the first step in preventing another anaphylactic reaction."
Here is a news story regarding the nexus between anaphylaxis and cardiac arrest....
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/disability-41023630/amy-may-shead-was-left-with-brain-damage-following-a-severe-allergic-reaction
"“She took one taste and had a severe allergic reaction and she went immediately into anaphylactic shock. The intenisty of that was so strong it caused a cardiac arrest.”"
So, while this specific incident is still awaiting the facts, it's important to make people, esp. those that might find themselves as first response, aware of a potential cause. It might just save someone's life... Hence the reason for the thread.
This is why I bring up the awareness when it is simply reported as "cardiac arrest" of such a young patient.
It would be easy for a coroner to find the cause of death as cardiac arrest without learning what caused the event....
To help educate further as to why I brought up the thread and wanted to understand Deltas policy, I have provided a bit of information below. The information might be of benefit to some of you trying to learn while we wait for further facts on this specific case.
From the NIH website:
"Anaphylaxis is the most dramatic clinical presentation of allergy and is frequently a medical emergency in both paediatric and adult patients [2]. ... Cardiovascular manifestations of anaphylaxis include hypotension and shock, cardiac arrhythmias, ventricular dysfunction and cardiac arrest [7]
From a CPR website:
If the person suffering from anaphylaxis is not breathing or moving, it is time to administer potentially life saving CPR while waiting for emergency responders to arrive on the scene. CPR is an invaluable tool when properly applied. The majority of cardiac arrest victims die before EMTs are able to reach them. Performing CPR on a victim of anaphylactic shock as soon as possible can greatly increase their chances of survival.
From Harvard.edu:
" A 2006 study by Harvard Medical School researchers found evidence that anaphylaxis is vastly underreported as the cause of serious allergic reactions treated in emergency rooms — a problem, because proper diagnosis is the first step in preventing another anaphylactic reaction."
Here is a news story regarding the nexus between anaphylaxis and cardiac arrest....
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/disability-41023630/amy-may-shead-was-left-with-brain-damage-following-a-severe-allergic-reaction
"“She took one taste and had a severe allergic reaction and she went immediately into anaphylactic shock. The intenisty of that was so strong it caused a cardiac arrest.”"
So, while this specific incident is still awaiting the facts, it's important to make people, esp. those that might find themselves as first response, aware of a potential cause. It might just save someone's life... Hence the reason for the thread.
This is why I bring up the awareness when it is simply reported as "cardiac arrest" of such a young patient.
It would be easy for a coroner to find the cause of death as cardiac arrest without learning what caused the event....
Oh and before you jump to conclusions about my knowledge of medical stuff, is 22 years and still going strong as a mere doctor in charge of an emergency department good enough for you?
Now, back to aviation topics please!
