Beta blockers and palpitations
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A little harsh,and, if I may say, patronising!
The only thing i was trying to say is that palpitations will be made more severe by fear. No way was I trying to say not to be checked out. Infact I would go further and say be checked out until you are convinced that your heart is healthy. Even if you have the slightest grain in your mind that the docs may be wrong the condition will be worse as many anxiety/stress conditions are generated by fear of the symptoms themselves.
There would be nothing worse fear wise than lying in bed thinking you are about to depart this world at any second with heart failure!
But having done that forget it as turning your thoughts inwards will not help at all.
Sorry you have a real "problem" but most dont.
Pace
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LOL - ok guys, play nice, this is stressing me out and yes, you guessed it - giving me an irregular heartbeat!
Seriously, thanks for the posts and advice. I think I have a bit of both, I am affected by stress, my personal and work life is generally a bit of a mess - not a happy time, but I do think there is also a bit of a chemical imbalance somewhere. Probably my own doing from years of smoking and binge drinking, I'm not getting any younger.
A bit of an odd coincidence perhaps, this only started after I had a hip resurfaced about 7 years ago, I had something like an epidural and there was obviously massive physical trauma. There was talk of the metal particles, which are bound to enter the bloodstream in small quantities, being potentially carcinogenic but I just wonder if they may affect anything else - particularly electrical impulses...?
Cheers and good health.
RobH
Seriously, thanks for the posts and advice. I think I have a bit of both, I am affected by stress, my personal and work life is generally a bit of a mess - not a happy time, but I do think there is also a bit of a chemical imbalance somewhere. Probably my own doing from years of smoking and binge drinking, I'm not getting any younger.
A bit of an odd coincidence perhaps, this only started after I had a hip resurfaced about 7 years ago, I had something like an epidural and there was obviously massive physical trauma. There was talk of the metal particles, which are bound to enter the bloodstream in small quantities, being potentially carcinogenic but I just wonder if they may affect anything else - particularly electrical impulses...?
Cheers and good health.
RobH
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hey Rob,
Ive been battling the ectopics as well. I had them 10 years ago before i was a pilot and they went away only to reappear about 2 weeks before my last class 1 renewal. (timing is everything
) I had been through an extremely stressful time and my guess is that it was the stress that brought them on again. Anyway , the ecg was flagged as abnornmal; re sinus rhythm and frequent ventricular ectopic beats. I was allowed to continue to fly by the Dame , but it was a anxious month long wait for CASA to send me the letter instructing me to see a cardio. This time with the career on the line they only worsened.
The cardio was ok with my echo and stress ecg and didnt bother with the holter. The paper work is still on the snail train at CASA , so my fate is still undecided, the wait only making it worse.
However, i have recently found a couple of breathing and relaxation exercises which i purchased on line. Being a skeptic i wasnt exactly confident that they would help, but they are. Even if its just placebo or because im taking some control of the situation, they are helping.
I would be happy to pass them onto a fellow pilot (free of course
) with a problem i well understand.
pm me if youre interested or you just want to talk about it.
Ive been battling the ectopics as well. I had them 10 years ago before i was a pilot and they went away only to reappear about 2 weeks before my last class 1 renewal. (timing is everything
) I had been through an extremely stressful time and my guess is that it was the stress that brought them on again. Anyway , the ecg was flagged as abnornmal; re sinus rhythm and frequent ventricular ectopic beats. I was allowed to continue to fly by the Dame , but it was a anxious month long wait for CASA to send me the letter instructing me to see a cardio. This time with the career on the line they only worsened. The cardio was ok with my echo and stress ecg and didnt bother with the holter. The paper work is still on the snail train at CASA , so my fate is still undecided, the wait only making it worse.
However, i have recently found a couple of breathing and relaxation exercises which i purchased on line. Being a skeptic i wasnt exactly confident that they would help, but they are. Even if its just placebo or because im taking some control of the situation, they are helping.
I would be happy to pass them onto a fellow pilot (free of course
) with a problem i well understand. pm me if youre interested or you just want to talk about it.
Psychophysiological entity
It's the funniest thing, but since stress-testing my increasingly arrhythmic heart, I've not had a problem.
I wrote what was intended to be a funny thread on JetBlast, but in hindsight, I wonder just what my suicidal attempt at testing my heart did.
I'd been months with what would have been a medical-losing arrhythmia, when I put it to the test.
Have a look at the funny thread.......and then don't do anything. I really don't want to be responsible for one of you keeling over.
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4178...laying-up.html
I wrote what was intended to be a funny thread on JetBlast, but in hindsight, I wonder just what my suicidal attempt at testing my heart did.
I'd been months with what would have been a medical-losing arrhythmia, when I put it to the test.
Have a look at the funny thread.......and then don't do anything. I really don't want to be responsible for one of you keeling over.
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4178...laying-up.html
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Same age as LR and had atrial fibrillation diagnosed and an enlarged heart [viral infection from flu ] with mitral regurgitation and a stage 3 kidney problem. I had been feeling all was not well within my overweight frame.
Cardiologist at Royal Surrey said I would need a pacemaker but he wanted to give me some drugs first. I had to lose weight and no exercise! Not easy I can tell you.
So I was given digoxin, ramipril, bisoprolol, warfarin and furosemide. Doses were increased gradually and after my last echocardiogram [9 months later] my heart had returned to normal size and my cardiologist scrubbed the pacemaker op. My kidneys somehow recovered more of their function and small amounts of wine can be consumed. Still on the pills but reductions are about to be made.
Side effects are complete loss of libido!, very itchy skin at times, variable bowel movements.
Anyone who feels something is not right with their heart is usually correct as I am sure one's central nervous system knows when things are out of order. For me the uncomfortable feeling of impending disaster has faded as my heart function has improved.
Cardiologist at Royal Surrey said I would need a pacemaker but he wanted to give me some drugs first. I had to lose weight and no exercise! Not easy I can tell you.
So I was given digoxin, ramipril, bisoprolol, warfarin and furosemide. Doses were increased gradually and after my last echocardiogram [9 months later] my heart had returned to normal size and my cardiologist scrubbed the pacemaker op. My kidneys somehow recovered more of their function and small amounts of wine can be consumed. Still on the pills but reductions are about to be made.
Side effects are complete loss of libido!, very itchy skin at times, variable bowel movements.
Anyone who feels something is not right with their heart is usually correct as I am sure one's central nervous system knows when things are out of order. For me the uncomfortable feeling of impending disaster has faded as my heart function has improved.
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aviate1138... So do I understand that your AF has reached the stage that medication might be reduced? My wife has Lone AF and has been told she will be on drugs (Verapamil, Digoxin and Warfarin) for ever. Warfarin is causing serious hair loss, but none of the other problems you mention! We're hoping that she may be offered Pradaxa, which will remove the requirement for regular INR testing and hopefully get her hair back..
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HD
Everybody who has AF seems to have a different version than mine. Most AF people I meet have paroxsmal AF and that causes fainting and rushes to the hospital, mine seems more benign [thank goodness] and I note that with Warfarin, Grapefruit is not recommended as are lots of Dark Greens and Cranberry Juice and Garlic! The trick seems to be a little of everything and that is where self checking ones INR [the coagulating rate] seems to give peace of mind over invariably inconvenient visits to the surgery.
My hair is falling out now and that is a bind. I expect to be on some medication - warfarin for sure but I am going to get my own INR tester and try natural foods to control the level - my target level is 2.5 and at present I vary between 2.2 and 2.5. The NHS will supply the little [expensive and non reusable] strips that gather the blood and allow the results to be shown.
CoaguChek |PT/INR Patient self-testing |CoaguChek XS System
PS My surgery managed to give me 6 times the required daily dose of Digoxin and after 2 months I thought I was fading away. I now check every change in dosage and ask as many questions as I think reasonable. Second opinions are a right btw.
Good luck with SWMBO and her Pradaxa - I must check out that too!
Everybody who has AF seems to have a different version than mine. Most AF people I meet have paroxsmal AF and that causes fainting and rushes to the hospital, mine seems more benign [thank goodness] and I note that with Warfarin, Grapefruit is not recommended as are lots of Dark Greens and Cranberry Juice and Garlic! The trick seems to be a little of everything and that is where self checking ones INR [the coagulating rate] seems to give peace of mind over invariably inconvenient visits to the surgery.
My hair is falling out now and that is a bind. I expect to be on some medication - warfarin for sure but I am going to get my own INR tester and try natural foods to control the level - my target level is 2.5 and at present I vary between 2.2 and 2.5. The NHS will supply the little [expensive and non reusable] strips that gather the blood and allow the results to be shown.
CoaguChek |PT/INR Patient self-testing |CoaguChek XS System
PS My surgery managed to give me 6 times the required daily dose of Digoxin and after 2 months I thought I was fading away. I now check every change in dosage and ask as many questions as I think reasonable. Second opinions are a right btw.
Good luck with SWMBO and her Pradaxa - I must check out that too!
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My heart really goes out to those suffering Palpitations/AF/PAF/Ectopic beats. I had suffered with a heart condition that was never really diagnosed properly from the age of 13.
Every clinician I met told me to rub my eyelids, don't drink caffiene, don't stress out etc etc. No one believed I had real problem!
At the age of 19, I had a cardiologist say I had AF and he prescribed various different beta blockers until my face went red and I couldn't step out in daylight, not to mention the other problems these drugs cause in a young mans life.
I gave up asking for help until I found a cardiologist working out of Leicester. He referred me to a cardiologist whom he thought could actually help. It took a while for an appointment to come through but he actually offered me a diagnosis. What I suffered from was re-entrant tachycardia triggered by ectopic beats.
Within 2 years I had EP studies and ablation therapy. Cured the problem and I could get on with my life.
The biggest relief I must say was being taken seriously.
Every clinician I met told me to rub my eyelids, don't drink caffiene, don't stress out etc etc. No one believed I had real problem!
At the age of 19, I had a cardiologist say I had AF and he prescribed various different beta blockers until my face went red and I couldn't step out in daylight, not to mention the other problems these drugs cause in a young mans life.
I gave up asking for help until I found a cardiologist working out of Leicester. He referred me to a cardiologist whom he thought could actually help. It took a while for an appointment to come through but he actually offered me a diagnosis. What I suffered from was re-entrant tachycardia triggered by ectopic beats.
Within 2 years I had EP studies and ablation therapy. Cured the problem and I could get on with my life.
The biggest relief I must say was being taken seriously.
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HD "So do I understand that your AF has reached the stage that medication might be reduced?"
Until this week - yes. Now my surgery has told me that despite my cholesterol level being on the low side of average, they want me to take statins as well - because their garbage in/garbage out computer says so. I have said no and I am getting a second opinion as I feel I take enough pills now and statins have unpleasant side effects - on top of the itchy skin - no libido - hair loss i get at present!
aviate
Until this week - yes. Now my surgery has told me that despite my cholesterol level being on the low side of average, they want me to take statins as well - because their garbage in/garbage out computer says so. I have said no and I am getting a second opinion as I feel I take enough pills now and statins have unpleasant side effects - on top of the itchy skin - no libido - hair loss i get at present!
aviate
Rob,
There is so much conflicting information here because there are so many different forms of palpitations. I started with paroxysmal atrial fibrillation a few years ago. Because they were only there for a few hours at a time, I could have a medical and nothing would show. However, as they got more frequent, I decided to have them checked out. They could find nothing until one day I got to the doctors whilst in AF and had an ECG. I eventually got referred to a surgeon at Papworth who tried an ablation procedure but could not fix me. Flecainide was prescribed to me and after a period of grounding I got a multi-crew medical. Some years later the AF gradually got worse and I went back to Papworth. This time with medical science having moved on I had a pulmonary vein isolation operation and have been hugely better since.
The AF I had was never debilitating (a colleague of mine had it so badly, he could not get up out of a chair!) and I could cope with it pretty well just felt generally shabby and under the weather. I was told by the Papworth surgeon a number of very interesting things. For example they have never found any connection between stress or caffeine and the sort of AF I experienced. Interestingly, along the lines of another poster, my AF only ever came on when I was resting even mental stimulus seemed to keep it at bay but sometimes physical pressure on my heart, such as leaning forward after a large meal or even turning on to my left side whilst in bed, would set it off.
I am sure that there are many different variations, but from the advice I have been given over the years, AF is definitely not good for your heart it is not working efficiently when you are in non-sinus rhythm and there is an increased risk of blood clotting hence why some people are on warfarin.
My advice would be to get an ECG whilst you are in AF and get those results to a real expert. My heart appeared perfect when I was not in AF, so they could find nothing to work on until I got there at the right time and they slapped an ECG machine on me. I have had numerous 24/ 48/72 hour halters since which have showed nothing except the odd ectopic beat, however on 2 occasions I have gone into AF whilst wearing the halter and that allowed them to move forward with my diagnosis and treatment. The surgeon at Papworth was very supportive and after all the tests were done on me initially, he said that AF would not be the cause of my demise, because basically my heart was in good condition and could cope with it. His advice in the years before my operation were to try all things in moderation if anything brought the AF on, cut back on it!
By the way, I have heard that ventricular fibrillation is far more serious!
AF can be a very worrying condition, but the right drugs can help a lot, and in my case surgery was extremely beneficial.
There is so much conflicting information here because there are so many different forms of palpitations. I started with paroxysmal atrial fibrillation a few years ago. Because they were only there for a few hours at a time, I could have a medical and nothing would show. However, as they got more frequent, I decided to have them checked out. They could find nothing until one day I got to the doctors whilst in AF and had an ECG. I eventually got referred to a surgeon at Papworth who tried an ablation procedure but could not fix me. Flecainide was prescribed to me and after a period of grounding I got a multi-crew medical. Some years later the AF gradually got worse and I went back to Papworth. This time with medical science having moved on I had a pulmonary vein isolation operation and have been hugely better since.
The AF I had was never debilitating (a colleague of mine had it so badly, he could not get up out of a chair!) and I could cope with it pretty well just felt generally shabby and under the weather. I was told by the Papworth surgeon a number of very interesting things. For example they have never found any connection between stress or caffeine and the sort of AF I experienced. Interestingly, along the lines of another poster, my AF only ever came on when I was resting even mental stimulus seemed to keep it at bay but sometimes physical pressure on my heart, such as leaning forward after a large meal or even turning on to my left side whilst in bed, would set it off.
I am sure that there are many different variations, but from the advice I have been given over the years, AF is definitely not good for your heart it is not working efficiently when you are in non-sinus rhythm and there is an increased risk of blood clotting hence why some people are on warfarin.
My advice would be to get an ECG whilst you are in AF and get those results to a real expert. My heart appeared perfect when I was not in AF, so they could find nothing to work on until I got there at the right time and they slapped an ECG machine on me. I have had numerous 24/ 48/72 hour halters since which have showed nothing except the odd ectopic beat, however on 2 occasions I have gone into AF whilst wearing the halter and that allowed them to move forward with my diagnosis and treatment. The surgeon at Papworth was very supportive and after all the tests were done on me initially, he said that AF would not be the cause of my demise, because basically my heart was in good condition and could cope with it. His advice in the years before my operation were to try all things in moderation if anything brought the AF on, cut back on it!
By the way, I have heard that ventricular fibrillation is far more serious!
AF can be a very worrying condition, but the right drugs can help a lot, and in my case surgery was extremely beneficial.
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I've suffered from SVT's (SupraVentricularTachycardia) all my life. It wasn't until I was 18 that the hospital actally confirmed it; until then everyone thought it was all in my head! It does annoy me when people say it's brought on by stress or caffeine - it isn't at all. Stress and stimulants can cause palpitations (ectopic beats) and a racing heart, but SVT's are totally different. I suspect the OP is suffering from SVT by the way he described the whooshing feeling he sometimes gets preceded by a thumping beat - that is how my SVT's start. They will come on for no reason whatsoever, and are very alarming. The heart will beat at 180 bpm and you can even see it thumping in your chest. There are various techniques you can do to stop them; holding your nose and mouth closed and blowing as hard as possible; pressing your eyelids gently; massaging ONE side of your neck along the artery (the pulse) but you have to be shown how to do this as it can be dangerous - and NEVER massage both sides as that can cause cardiac arrest.
Ectopic beats (flutters) are particularly horrible too. Some people swear by brisk walking to stop them, but if they do persist for hours you should go to A&E where they will re-set your heart rhythm. When my SVT's used to suddenly come on I couldn't do much as I felt giddy and faint. Usually, they would stop as suddenly as they started, but if they went on for too long, or I began getting a dull pain in my neck I would call an ambulance, and A&E would connect me to a heart moniter and put a butterfly in my hand, then slowly inject a drug to slow my heart down. They usually try to use other methods before doing that (I'm not sure why they only do that as a last resort) but it will slow the heart down eventually. They have to slow it down otherwise your heart would pack up - or you'd develop a bloodclot.
They eventually prescribed me Betablockers, though with me being young they weren't keen at first. But I insisted as the attacks were ruining my life. I've been lucky in that I've had no adverse effects through taking them, and they have stopped the attacks. I have been on them now for over 25 years.
I am still monitored every few years at the cardiac clinic, and a few years back was offered ablation therapy (same as what Tony Blair had) but felt a tad nervous having an op - and as the BB's have been so good in treating it I declined. However, we have left it open to review, in case my condition worsens, say, or the BB's started to cause issues. I'd also want the op whilst relatively young, not just to reap the benefits, but because I'd probably be in better health.
I found a link to the ablation therapy:
Cardiac Ablation
I'm actually not sure which SVT I have after reading that little lot, I only know it's Supra Ventricular Tachycardia - so when I read that Ventricular Tachycardia was the most dangerous I've decided to see my GP and ask him to look on my notes. If I do have that one I think I'll get the op down yesterday!
Ectopic beats (flutters) are particularly horrible too. Some people swear by brisk walking to stop them, but if they do persist for hours you should go to A&E where they will re-set your heart rhythm. When my SVT's used to suddenly come on I couldn't do much as I felt giddy and faint. Usually, they would stop as suddenly as they started, but if they went on for too long, or I began getting a dull pain in my neck I would call an ambulance, and A&E would connect me to a heart moniter and put a butterfly in my hand, then slowly inject a drug to slow my heart down. They usually try to use other methods before doing that (I'm not sure why they only do that as a last resort) but it will slow the heart down eventually. They have to slow it down otherwise your heart would pack up - or you'd develop a bloodclot.
They eventually prescribed me Betablockers, though with me being young they weren't keen at first. But I insisted as the attacks were ruining my life. I've been lucky in that I've had no adverse effects through taking them, and they have stopped the attacks. I have been on them now for over 25 years.
I am still monitored every few years at the cardiac clinic, and a few years back was offered ablation therapy (same as what Tony Blair had) but felt a tad nervous having an op - and as the BB's have been so good in treating it I declined. However, we have left it open to review, in case my condition worsens, say, or the BB's started to cause issues. I'd also want the op whilst relatively young, not just to reap the benefits, but because I'd probably be in better health.
I found a link to the ablation therapy:
Cardiac Ablation
I'm actually not sure which SVT I have after reading that little lot, I only know it's Supra Ventricular Tachycardia - so when I read that Ventricular Tachycardia was the most dangerous I've decided to see my GP and ask him to look on my notes. If I do have that one I think I'll get the op down yesterday!
