Medicals and Illicit Substances

[Assailant]

To the flyers of PPrune,

I have a somewhat unusual and blatantly obvious question.....

I'm commencing flight training later in the year (rotary CPL). I'm hoping to get my medical sorted out ASAP, mainly to be sure I have no underlying conditions which could ground me before I move interstate to train.

Now here's where it gets interesting. I have been informed that the Class 1 Med I need to obtain does involve blood/urine tests. I wondered what the outcome would be if any illicit substance was detected in either sample? Perhaps more specifically, marijuana.... Is this grounds to be deemed non-airworthy and automatically fail the medical - even if I'm fit and healthy and everything else is 100% fine?

I have searched on several forums for the answer and all I find is a lot of people bashing the poster for being a mutant druggo. My case is that I was in Amsterdam last week and indulged in one of the local customs.... I don't need to be told not to consider flying as a career because I have tried drugs. Obviosuly they don't mix, and I would never argue the opposite (as with alcohol, even though that seems to be accepted as fine...) - but hey, we are all young and stupid once

So please, if anyone has any insight into this I would very much appreciate replies. I can hold off for a couple of months for the medical if need be, but I just figured it may not be an issue anyway? It certainly hasn't had any effect upon my ability to do anything else....

Thanks everyone,

Jack

[Megaton]

So you tried marijuana last week? But now, seven days later, you've matured and become more responsible? That's quite some transformation!

[Assailant]

Firstly, your reply is 100% unnecessary. I'm sure you have heard the saying about having nothing good to say...

Secondly, you have no idea who I am, likewise have no idea how responsible or mature I am - so I would appreciate if you did not make misjudged and antagonistic comments toward me.

Take a step down from your mighty pedestal and realise there are millions upon billions of people out there every day smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol - neither of which would label someone immature or necessarily irresponsible even after knowing what they do to your body and mind. Yet trying some weed makes you a criminal, an idiot, a dopehead and so much else...

As I said initially, I am not posting here to find out how people feel about marijuana or its users, as I think naivety will always win in that argument. If I can't be given an answer to the question without the thread following the standard formula and someone interjecting "don't you know they call it dope for a reason" - then I guess mods, delete the post. However if anyone happens to have any actual opinions about what I asked I'd love to hear them...

Jack

[skyhaze]

I can't speak for the specifics on this medical test. But generally speaking THC byproducts are detectable up to a few months after smoking, but that assumes you had a continuous habit before you stopped. If this was the only occasion the test should be negative rather quickly.

I once smoked the day before a urine test was taken and this came out negative, although I got a verbal comment that my values were close to the cut-off. This was 20 years ago, so don't know if the tests have changed.

Maybe consider seeing a friendly doc for a quick private test first if you want to be sure. I'm not going to comment on the ethics & morality as I assume you will get feedback from others on that.

Good luck!

[Lister Noble]

Good info here

Go Ask Alice!: Marijuana: How long does it hang out in the body?

I've never used drugs but like alcohol,I don't see much difference.
Anyway just came across this thread,googled and it may help
Lister

[gingernut]

As far as I know, the class 1 medical doesn't routinely test for illicit substances. (Although post-mortems do).

Cannaboids do have a long half life, useably detectable for about 28 days.

[homonculus]

Relax. The urine test is a cheapo (you dont think the CAA do expensive tests do you!?) to test you for blood in the urine, diabetes etc. You can do EM scanning for drugs on the urine but it is expensive, takes weeks and isnt done.

So relax - I did my initial at Gatwick a day after being covered in cocaine (I am a doctor and use more cocaine than your usual Columbian drug baron, but I completed my medical LPC so it is legal!) and they didnt bat an eyelid. Rather different from trying to get through Miami one day, but that is another story....

The longer term issue is that it is very difficult to buy the pure drugs I use on the street. You are more likely to buy unpredictable isomers - or worse - which can have an effect on your brain for days and days. So please keep your recreation and your future flying very separate.

[Assailant]

Thanks for the helpful info!

I feel slightly silly, but I just did not even consider that they had to do separate tests when looking at the urine sample to find different things.... I kinda of envisaged a man in a white coat with a microscope taking a look and finding everything. But of course it makes sence that they would have to screen it for differing substances! I'll go ahead with booking it all in then.

Cheers

[ausdoc]

That's all very well, but you will be asked to make a legal, signed declaration as to whether you are now, or have ever used illegal drugs. That will then form the basis for further drug testing. This happens at your initial medical and every renewal. Best to be honest. You could be charged with making a false declaration which would make future medicals difficult, not to mention getting an ASIC.

Cheers,

ausdoc

[Assailant]

Thanks for the heads up Ausdoc. I wouldn't lie on a form like that as I assume if I was to lie and then be discovered it wouldn't be the best! I do wonder however, if I am to say I have tried drugs what are the consequences of this? You mentioned "forming the basis for drug testing", does this mean they would test the sample initially? I am also still a little confused as to what would happen if they were aware I had smoked it, do I fail the medical flat out?

Cheers,

J

[wantobe]

if you tell them you smoked drugs on the form, youre medical ends there.

[gingernut]

if you tell them you smoked drugs on the form, youre medical ends there

I'm not sure if that's strictly true. I'm not sure what the exact situation is regarding class1, but information gleaned from this forum suggests that an admission to drug use would, at the very least, spark a referral to a psychiatrist for specialist assessment.

Lying to your AME? It's a bit like sleeping with your best mate's mum. Seems like a good idea at the time, but bound to trip you up in the end.

Safe flying

[LH2]

Interestingly, while chatting with the AME during my last renewal, she mentioned nonchalantly that a high percentage (I didn't ask how much exactly) of tests come up positive, with marijuana being the favourite amongst PPLs, and cocaine amongst CPLs.

This kind of took me aback, as I thought it would be the other way around, with affluent people who can afford to fly privately taking the more expensive drugs, while the skint, overexploited, debt-laden professional would have to make do on the cheap stuff.

She didn't mention what the consequences of a positive result were so I can't help there, but since we were talking renewals, it's fairly obvious that illicit drug consumption amongst pilots is all but unheard of.

On the good news front for all of you druggies out there: a) they don't seem to check for glue sniffing (and neither for typewriter correcting fluid, for the white-collar amongst you), and b) alcohol and caffeine are socially accepted anyway, so hopefully you now know what to stick with.

[Shunter]

That's all very well, but you will be asked to make a legal, signed declaration as to whether you are now, or have ever used illegal drugs.

But what if you took drugs in a country in which they were not illegal?

[Assailant]

Quote:
That's all very well, but you will be asked to make a legal, signed declaration as to whether you are now, or have ever used illegal drugs.
But what if you took drugs in a country in which they were not illegal?

I wonder this as well?...

I've still been holding off booking this thing because I'm not to sure if I am going to pass it or not! And if i do happen to fail I'm not sure if I get a second go or if that's it... I have considered just biting the bullet and going to see what happens if I say I hadn't tried it, but I really don't want this to come back to bite me.

It seems crazy to me that something so minor can have such a big impact upon the medical. Durgs are bad m'kay!

[wantobe]

Then go there and do the medical ? l0l

[John_Mc]

Would be a regular cannabis user and passed the Class 2 medical without any problems. Only a blood test though, no urine.

I would imagine you'll be fine

[gingernut]

It seems crazy to me that something so minor can have such a big impact upon the medical. Durgs are bad m'kay!

It's difficult not to get on the moral high horse, some may think your actions are no worse than someone drinking alcohol. At one time, I may have thought the same, but recently I have seen a lot of people who appear f8cked up by weed.

But look at it from the AME's perspective-he's not there for the good of your health, he's there for the good of mine.

And, a one off, or not, you've taken a mind altering substance. Why should he take the risk ?

I'm not trying to get too deep into the right and wrongs, I suspect there are some differing cultural perspectives between alcohol and drugs.


Coke tends to be the drug of choice for those prone to drug testing, purely because the half life is shorter, hence staying in your system shorter. (Rife in custodial institutions I'm told).

Don't shoot the messenger

[backofthedrag]

Just tell them you didn't inhale.
I seem to remember someone else getting away with that.

[lpokijuhyt]