Rogal

Hi,
The problem is simply - in poland only anomaloscope and ishihara are accepted for 1 class. I passed lantern test for 2 class (100% correct). I will try anomaloscope in poland...maybe i will pass - my friend have the same blindness as me and he is captain in PLL LOT. If I doesn't pass anomaloscope, i will go to USA...I can pass tower test i think.

I haven't any problems with color blindness in every day life and flying as turistic pilot so why they won't give me 1 class

Strobe lights

Thanks G/A for the link.. the problem is that I am looking for something more JAA-FCL or CAA“s official stuff, something like the JAA passsing-failing criteria for the Spectrolux lantern test. The link is very useful, but it is more research oriented.. thanks anyway..
Has anybody gone threw the Spectrolux? Does anybody knows the JAA passing-failing criteria for this specific test?

JuHan

hello everyone..
i've just got off the phone from a eye specialist doctor..(i'm CVD btw)
at first..i asked the doctor about conducting a lantern test on me..but he replied saying that he would conduct a 100 hue test on me..and certify me as colour safe for the CASA class one medical..(this is in malaysia)

i was confused by the doctor's saying..
at first..i was told by CASA would only accept ishihara,lantern and tower light tests..and also would not accept the results of 100 hue test.

but on the other hand..the eye doctor said he could give me a class one CASA medical with the 100 hue test..right now..i do not know what to do..this thing is kinda like against each other right now..

could anyone enlighten me about this issue..

thanks in advance

biggles7374

I have a colour vision deficiency and currently hold a class 2 UK JAR medical restricted to vfr flights only. I have been told my defect is marginal and failed the HW lantern by one set of lights

Sometimes I pass the ishihara plates and sometimes don't and can only put this down to the lighting conditions in the medical examiners room and the way this slightly affects the perception of the colours. I seem to do better without the 'daylight lamp' shining on the book (ie the controlled conditions that are supposed to be in place during the test).

I have read about taking medicals in other JAA countries, does anyone know, or does anyone have experience to know whether the ishihara is carried out in 'controlled' conditions in european locations such as schiphol? or whether they are just carried out in the doctors room under normal flourescant lights.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

2close

Biggles,

The Ishihara test is being improperly applied by the JAA.

It is designed to be used in a room lit with actual daylight conditions, not artificial lighting, and that is what is stated within the instructions.

The 'daylight' tubes used are as close as they can get but are still not the same as actual daylight.

Furthermore, the JAA insist on nil errors whereas the Ishihara instructions state clearly that up to TWO errors is still considered a pass.

Therefore, the JAA is operating a prescribed medical test which is not in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

Request a re-test in daylight conditions or if you go to another country tell them before you book that you want to be tested in actual daylight conditions.

Although, I would have yourself checked in these conditions at your local optometrist before going down this road.

HTH

2close

JuHan

i've just done my eye test..
my colour vision was abysmal...out of the 25 ishihara plates..i could only read one..
the doctor told me that i will fail all the other test in the world..
i know i shouldn't be let down by it...but are there any similar cases like me..
i could perceive colour fine in everyday life..but when it comes to ishihara...i'm like a blind man..

the 100 hue test is coming for me..should i try it or just forget about the whole flying career?

Bealzebub

"true when they lower the intensity of the lantern, instead of bright and intense colours... you'll see fake colours!!! a greenish red, a reddish green and so on.... I'm really thinking that the CAA tries to stop or fail you whenever they can... very sad... "


What an absolutely ridiculous comment that the CAA try to fail you whenever they can. I have had many involved dealings with the medical division of the CAA over the last 25 years and they have always, always been professional and helpful. There has never been any doubt at all that they will bend over backwards to ensure you retain the medical wherever that is possible. You need to remember that the division is comprised of medical professionals with a great deal of experience in their respective fields and who naturally have a particular focus on its application to the specific field of aviation medicine.

Very recently my son failed his colour vision test based on the Ishihara plates at his class 2 initial medical. An appointment was made for the lantern tests to be conducted at the CAA today, and both he and I are delighted that he passed and had the restriction on his medical certificate removed. However the tests were conducted in a proper manner and whatever the outcome had been a full explanation was offered on conclusion.

Whatever the situation, these are the people to see, as ultimately ( in the UK at least) they will be responsible for the decision to issue the appropriate class of medical certificate. The medical division of the CAA is not Lourdes, nor do they have a magic formulae to elevate all candidates to the required standard, however I am sure they are delighted to be able offer reassurance wherever that is possible and similarly to offer advice to possibly overcome a problem. Nevertheless they are also charged with ensuring standards and inevitably that means some candidates will be disappointed with the results. I am convinced that is an occurence which gives the individual doctor no pleasure at all.

TelBoy

I took the CAA colour vision tests about 14 years ago. First was Ishihara then some coloured domino things and then the Holmes Wright test, I failed all of them and was classed CVD. Looking at the treads in this forum I feel that the test were not properly carried out - no daylight for Ishihara and dark only for HW, as for the dominos thing the examiner would not even tell me what he wanted me to acheve??? A few years after this I went to the USA got my PPL and did the FAA light signal test and passed so I have the SODA waiver and unrestricted medical.

My question is (as I would like to now do CPL or ATPL in the UK - my home) would the CAA alow me to do another test? my last was so long ago and not JAA at that time and if so and I pass and spend a fortune on training and get my CPL or ATPL, when I go to an employer they will put you through a company medical - how do they treat CVD and do their tests?

Any help would be great

davidd

I dont understand this at all, does this mean that he could get a cpl/atpl in the usa then work for an airline in the UK ?
Sorry to hear you failed, out of interest when you did the ishihara test did they do any of the wiggly lines or just the numbers ?
As I know non cvd people fail these or certainly hesitate.

Can you identify the colour of the individual dots that make up the plates?

east_sider

Davidd - the isihara plates were only numbers, no symbols. It was the same set at CAA Gatwick as at City and also found online.

Not sure what you mean by "Can you identify the colour of the individual dots that make up the plates?" I can see the individual dots, and I can see the colours are different. But I can't see they are different enough to make out a number. So as I go through the book the colour of them get closer and closer together, they look like all dots are shades of a browny/green, I can't distinguish the shades enough to see a number. On certain plates I can't see any number at all.

Hope that answers your Q.

Blinkz

Hey guys,
Does anyone have any experience of how airlines view colourvision? I have a full CAA class 1 medical with no colourvision restriction on it, only a VDL for having to wear contact lenses. However I failed the Ishihara plates and passed the beyne lantern. I'm just coming to the end of my commercial training now and will be starting to hunt for jobs in the near future.

Do airlines have a problem if you have had to pass a lantern test?
Since I have actually passed a lantern test could I just say that I'm not actually colour blind?(since I have passed one of the offical JAA tests?)

Any information anyone can give me on airline medicals and colourvision would be very greatfully received!

Bealzebub

If you passed the lantern test then that is fine. Some people do have problems with the Ishihara plates that do not manifest themselves on the more involved light tests done at the CAA. If you pass the lantern tests then obviously you are not "colour blind" or sufficiently colour deficient to fail the qualification. As such you will have no restriction on your medical certificate that is relevant to this. Most airlines in the UK will not require you to submit to an additional medical. Some overseas airlines and the odd UK one that might would need to be told of your CVD with regards to ishihara plates only if that became an issue.

On a seperate note, to those that feel it is fine to be able see the colours on an EFIS /EICAS display despite a CVD anomaly, it should be remembered that individual colour guns do fail on these displays which can make a big difference to the colours, shades and hues that are displayed and can present problems if these differences cannot be readily observed and compensated for.

In addition what happens with regards to the medical standards in other countries is academicaly interesting but not necessarily relevant. In the USA for example many of the standards and requirements are geared up to a system that is relevant to that countries operating infrastructure and norms. For example it is comparatively rare for very low hour pilots to be employed as airline First Officers. It may well be that the FAA considers the higher experience base and general operating environment to be sufficient to allow a different level of colour vision deficiences, than that permitted in the UK.

TelBoy

Soeren

You are quite right everyone should look at their colour vision testing. In my mind the FAA route of a practical flight test is the ONLY real way this can be acheved.

Even people classed as colour vision normal have a huge difference in the way they perceve colour and could it be that someone who has passed the ishihara test might have problems with something practical - I don't know the answer but its possible.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding amongst the "colour normals" on CVD. I have had it said to me (on MANY occasions) I guess you know if the traffic lights are red or green by wether its the top or bottom light. This seems very ignorant as most CVD people could give you the colour of a traffic light from a great distance without knowing its position (I can) - however these people don't understand and perhaps this is the case with Bealzebub.

I would hope that everyone contributing here CVD or not would not want to compromise aviation saftey. I for one would happily give up my dreams if I thought that I would represent a danger (though CVD or anything else) and I'm sure that I speak for the majority. The recless that could not care I hope would be sorted out at interview etc as they obvioustley do not have the responsibility to be a potential captain.

davidd

Bealzebub, I understand your comments about CVD pilots having a route to follow in respect of further tests and anyone serious has probably subjected themselves to this, yet it still seems crazy to me that a high hour US pilot can have CVD and demonstrate that the CVD is not an issue yet the UK pilot isnt even given a chance to become a pilot unless they follow a route that is likely to see them fail compared to a practical test where a situation encountered by the pilot is tested.
Personally as a child I discovered I have a mild form of cvd mild enough to see me pass the CUT cvd test for my employment, yet fail the ishihara somedays and pass other days.
As a matter of interest I have booked my city university tests and look forward to taking the tests maybe my cvd is slight enough to enable me to pass and get the illusive cvd class1, should I fail the testing it seems absurb to think I would be able to fly an aircraft into heathrow with cvd simply by moving house!
I think this thread has been done to death now.
btw city uni are charging £75 including the research tests for aviation.
Best Regards
d
A test that provides a quantifiable and accurate measure of color vision as a way of reliably grading the loss of color sensitivity would solve some of these problems. A better understanding of color vision requirements in the aviation environment is also needed so as to set sensible pass/fail criteria that are relevant and safe and can, therefore, be accepted internationally.

2close

A point for consideration regarding the proposed new tests.

If the final decision is going to be made on a PAPI simulator which only uses Red and White as its decisive factors, why should any form of pre-screening be carried out, using Ishihara or the computerised test devised by City University?

The screening tests are designed to identify a Red / Green deficiency which is then not taken into consideration when making the final decision.

Therefore, persons with red deficiencies are being placed at an unfair disadvantage over persons with green deficiencies.

The case may arise where a person with a mild red deficiency could fail to meet the colour vision standards whereas a person with a critical green deficiency could pass the test.

It seems that the CAA / JAA / EASA are determined to find themselves in the Courts facing discrimination 'charges'.

Is the time for talking over and the time for action here and now?

2close

benwizz

I thought I would give a summary of the testing procedures at Gatwick from my recent experience to give an idea of what to expect.

Firstly, I was given the ishihara test along with all the other eye tests and at the end of the eye examination the doctor told me that I had failed 2 plates, and although this was the pass mark Dr Ishihara set, JAR rules require no mistakes. I was told I had to do the lantern tests, and was sent back to the waiting room.

A nurse then took me to the lantern testing room, which consisted of a long, thin room with a chair at one end, and a trolley with the 2 lantern test boxes on at the other end, and she explained that she would be doing the Beynes test first. She explained the colours (red, blue, green, orange and "white", which looked identical to the orange colour for me). She did warn me that the white was a muddy white, like the colour of a light bulb in a room. The lights were turned off so the room was in near darkness, and I was sat about 5m away. She showed me the first colour as a demo. For the actual test, she showed me at a guess around 20 different lights, and I couldn't tell the difference between the "white" and the orange. The red, blue and green were however very easy to distinguish, as the lights were surprisingly clear and a bit larger than I expected. The lights remained on for about a second, and you just had to shout out the colour.

I then did the H-W test, which was positioned slightly further back than the Beynes (6m or so). This was carried out with the lights on. She said this test should be slightly easier because there were only 3 lights - red, green and white. She showed me one set of lights, to indicate the position of the lights. There are two, one on top of the other, and you have to name the top one followed by the bottom one. She turned the thing on and showed me what I needed to do, and at this point I was surprised at how bright and clear the lights were. She promptly turned the intensity down by I would guess about half and explained that this was the brightness the test would be carried out at There were probably about 20 or so light pairs I had to identify. I knew I had confused the green and white colours, and as expected she told me we would have to do it again in the dark. This time, the light pairs were on for about 5 seconds.

I was then left in the room in total darkness for 15 minutes to get accustomed to the light, which was plenty of time to get stewed up about it! After that time, the lady returned and started the test again. This time I was able to name the lights correctly, and I passed. I found it a lot easier in the dark, and although the lights are very small for the H-W test, there was not a problem with the white and orange looking similar.

All in all, although it was pretty stressful knowing that just one wrong answer would fail you on each test, the staff were very nice and seemed as if they genuinely wanted you to pass, as other people have said. It just shows that it is possible to pass the medical even if you have problems with the ishihara plates.

Good luck

benwizz

Nope you just need to pass one, it doesn't matter if you fail any others, just either the ishihara, the Beyne or the H-W.

TelBoy

When I did mine all those years ago the only lantern was the Holmes Wright, beyne was not an option (well for me anyhow) I guess this would give me a good reason for asking for a retest.

To give you the larger picture. In those days there were 3 classes of Medical. Class 1 for ATP and CPL, Class 2 for BCPL (remember that) and Class 3 for PPL. The Class 1 could NOT have any restrictions so with CVD the highest class was 2 with daytime restriction and need for radio in aircraft.

The first test I did was Ishihara - failed miserably. He then gave me some coloured domino things and told me to "arrange them logically" when I asked him what he ment, he just said "anyone with normal colour vision would understand" - failed miserably again as I did not even understand what I was supposed to be doing. Then the HW test. This involved sitting for about 15 mins in a chair with a British Airways blindfold on to "dark adapt" the test was then taken in total darkness. He showed me the lights, one above each other, and I thought "this is easy" I could tell the colours with no problem. Then came the test. The apatures of the lights was taken to a pin pick and I think I mixed up the green and white, although I was only told I had failed I then took the rest of a class 2 medical and passed, but with day and radio only restrictions.

Following this I went to the USA and passed my PPL and light signal test, the FAA have given me a SODA for any class medical Now the only problem is I'm English and could really do with going the CAA way.

Sorry if this has waffled on a bit - its a history lesson for most, but if anyone can comment on my chances of getting the CAA to retest me I would be greateful, although I will not be asking until I have been to the city uni next month to get a full report.

TelBoy

east_sider

It seems all tests are different, a very confusing and irritating situation for the likes of us. Have you taken the city uni tests? as I think a report from them will help you.

My view is to get all the relevant facts together - try writing to the CAA and ask what the protocol is - or even better get someone else to write so that they do not give the protocol used on you, because it is you who is asking!! Get the citi uni report etc. Try looking at ishihara plates in proper daylight as it should be. At the Hendon RAF museum there is a display about needs for pilots and colour vision is included. It has a selection of ishihara plates on display. Standing next to them I could not make out anything, but after looking around at other things, I looked back and could tell all the numbers as sunlight was falling on them. I was amazed as I've never been able to tell what they are.

Try pushing - I'm sure others here might be able to help you more than me, but if Gatwick say no then you won't be any worse off than now.

All the best

TelBoy

east_sider

The FAA test involves reading the tower light signals at 1000 and 1500 yards. Remember the towers often have tinted windows that distort the signal.

You need to contact the FAA to get an authority to do the signal test. I do not know if it can be done in the UK, try phoning the FAA, they are VERY helpful and I would give them 10/10 all the times I have had dealings with them. They also have an office at Aviation House I think.

If not a good holiday could be had with a bit of flying and a signal test to boot. A champagne dinner when you pass I bet . Remember you need an M1 student visa AND security clearance to fly in the US now (for training anyhow - not sure how hour building and signal tests go)

And still we all look forward to the new tests. People are calling it the PAPI and seem to confuse it with the glide slope indicator, but I think it is a sort of computerised ishihara, not just red and white - not sure if it will be any better for us!!