EEG no longer required at initial JAA Class 1 (merged)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EEG off the JAR class one medical in UK
The following is an excript from the CAA website:
The electroencephalogram (EEG) and the initial JAR Class 1 examination 06 October 2004
The JAR-FCL 3 requires an EEG (brain scan) examination as part of the initial examination for a Class 1 certificate for professional flying. This is a controversial test in the context of screening for future epileptic seizures, which is not required in the ICAO Annex 1 standards and recommended practices, and which is not done by many aviation authorities throughout the world. The UK CAA has argued in the JAA medical committees that the investigation is of minimal benefit to flight safety, but no consensus has been reached. The UK CAA therefore has informed Central JAA that it will not be performing this examination in the initial JAR Class 1 examination from 4 October 2004. It will inform pilots undergoing a JAR Class 1 examination that should they wish to fly an aircraft professionally that is registered in another state, that state is entitled to require them to have an EEG.
The electroencephalogram (EEG) and the initial JAR Class 1 examination 06 October 2004
The JAR-FCL 3 requires an EEG (brain scan) examination as part of the initial examination for a Class 1 certificate for professional flying. This is a controversial test in the context of screening for future epileptic seizures, which is not required in the ICAO Annex 1 standards and recommended practices, and which is not done by many aviation authorities throughout the world. The UK CAA has argued in the JAA medical committees that the investigation is of minimal benefit to flight safety, but no consensus has been reached. The UK CAA therefore has informed Central JAA that it will not be performing this examination in the initial JAR Class 1 examination from 4 October 2004. It will inform pilots undergoing a JAR Class 1 examination that should they wish to fly an aircraft professionally that is registered in another state, that state is entitled to require them to have an EEG.
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's good news. I remember discussing this issue with the doc at my initial Class 1, back in 2000 or thereabouts. He said then that the EEG was a waste of time and that the CAA were hoping to stop doing it. It was also very expensive, so now...COSTS OF INITIAL CLASS 1 MEDICALS SHOULD GO DOWN!!!!
We criticise them a lot on here, but let's give credit where it's due - WELL DONE, CAA.
We criticise them a lot on here, but let's give credit where it's due - WELL DONE, CAA.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The EEG adds £87.00 to the price of the medical.
It was this test that i had problems with. The CAA now want to see the opinion of an independent neurologist who carried out a similar EEG with me, in order to reassess my case.
So fingers crossed!!!!!!!!!
It was this test that i had problems with. The CAA now want to see the opinion of an independent neurologist who carried out a similar EEG with me, in order to reassess my case.
So fingers crossed!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: london
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i had the same problem with the EEG as gareth08 and the CAA has yet to get back to me.
However the CAA shouldnt be able to do this as there is one rule for the new candidates of class one medicals and another for the people that have failed due to the EEG. Im sure court action would soon change there mind
However the CAA shouldnt be able to do this as there is one rule for the new candidates of class one medicals and another for the people that have failed due to the EEG. Im sure court action would soon change there mind
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sharpey,
I have had to stand on the head of the CAA recently writing letters every couple of weeks. Basically the AME i talked to was very helpful. If you can get a consultant nerologist to examine you independently, they will reasses your case, depending on the outcome of the report from your neurologist, which needs to be favourable. You will need to contact the CAA first though.
There is a lot of evidence in current research papers out there to show that the EEG is not a terribly useful test in the context it was being used, which was the argument the CAA have used to drop it. They themselves from what i can deduce are very happy to see the back of it. They are published in a few different journals, get your neurologist to look into it. One very interesting paper was published by clark and riley (2001) entitled 'screening EEG in aircrew selection:clinical aerospace neurology perspective' published in aviation space and environmental medicine, vol 72 no 11 (2001). It makes some interesting reading and i would advise you send the reference onto a neurologist should you decide to contact one, so he/she can have a read at it.
Although, i do agree with you on the legal aspects. I recently had a chat with a friend of mine who is training as a barrister, who is absolutely gobsmacked. He reckons that now they've dropped the EEG, they have left themselves open for hanging!!, or as he put it - a judicial review. He listed after looking through a few legal books of his at least 4 different grounds the aviation authorities could be sued on!
However only time will tell in the meantime,
Best wishes!!
I have had to stand on the head of the CAA recently writing letters every couple of weeks. Basically the AME i talked to was very helpful. If you can get a consultant nerologist to examine you independently, they will reasses your case, depending on the outcome of the report from your neurologist, which needs to be favourable. You will need to contact the CAA first though.
There is a lot of evidence in current research papers out there to show that the EEG is not a terribly useful test in the context it was being used, which was the argument the CAA have used to drop it. They themselves from what i can deduce are very happy to see the back of it. They are published in a few different journals, get your neurologist to look into it. One very interesting paper was published by clark and riley (2001) entitled 'screening EEG in aircrew selection:clinical aerospace neurology perspective' published in aviation space and environmental medicine, vol 72 no 11 (2001). It makes some interesting reading and i would advise you send the reference onto a neurologist should you decide to contact one, so he/she can have a read at it.
Although, i do agree with you on the legal aspects. I recently had a chat with a friend of mine who is training as a barrister, who is absolutely gobsmacked. He reckons that now they've dropped the EEG, they have left themselves open for hanging!!, or as he put it - a judicial review. He listed after looking through a few legal books of his at least 4 different grounds the aviation authorities could be sued on!
However only time will tell in the meantime,
Best wishes!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: London
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please help
PLease can someone offer a 'newbie' some advise.
Ive always wanted to become a proffesional commercial airline pilot but until recently have not been in a position to pay the fees privately. I am considering going to cabair in cranfield to complete the 56 week modular course.
My main concerns are:
The class 1 medical, ive read the brief but would like to hear from someone whos actually done it.
Im a 20 a day smoker at the moment but if i get accepted for flight school would quit immediately. (How would this impact my medical)??
What are my prospects of a first officer position after completing my flight training.
I pretty much dont care whether its long haul / short haul etc.
Look forward to your responses, feedback
Ive always wanted to become a proffesional commercial airline pilot but until recently have not been in a position to pay the fees privately. I am considering going to cabair in cranfield to complete the 56 week modular course.
My main concerns are:
The class 1 medical, ive read the brief but would like to hear from someone whos actually done it.
Im a 20 a day smoker at the moment but if i get accepted for flight school would quit immediately. (How would this impact my medical)??
What are my prospects of a first officer position after completing my flight training.
I pretty much dont care whether its long haul / short haul etc.
Look forward to your responses, feedback
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DS,
1. Do a search with 'Class one' medical as keyword.
2. Stop smoking, if you are convinced that you can stop like that why continue to waste health and money on a useless habit.
3. Further advice on which way to go and job opportunities can be found and discussed on the Wannabees forum.
Best of luck
FD
1. Do a search with 'Class one' medical as keyword.
2. Stop smoking, if you are convinced that you can stop like that why continue to waste health and money on a useless habit.
3. Further advice on which way to go and job opportunities can be found and discussed on the Wannabees forum.
Best of luck
FD
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
I had my inital Class 1 examination 5 days bafore the 4th of october!
No mention that the EEG was being scrapped......not only was the Bloody test uncomfortable and time consuming......now i find it was a COMPLETE waste of my time and MONEY........
The £87 would have come in handy to pay for the extra investigations I have required due to an abnormal ECG.
I had my inital Class 1 examination 5 days bafore the 4th of october!
No mention that the EEG was being scrapped......not only was the Bloody test uncomfortable and time consuming......now i find it was a COMPLETE waste of my time and MONEY........
The £87 would have come in handy to pay for the extra investigations I have required due to an abnormal ECG.
Oh the taught of it, oh so boring!!!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to the CAA website, a class 1 medical will now only cost £337. I booked mine a few weeks ago and it cost me £422
It was updated on the 4th of October which I'm almost sure was before the date I booked it. [I'm currently on holiday so I'll have to check when I get back]
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED...entre_Fees.pdf
I wonder if the CAA will give me a refund as I'm not going to actually do the test? I'll have to give them a call when I get back.
It was updated on the 4th of October which I'm almost sure was before the date I booked it. [I'm currently on holiday so I'll have to check when I get back]
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED...entre_Fees.pdf
I wonder if the CAA will give me a refund as I'm not going to actually do the test? I'll have to give them a call when I get back.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have paid the full price for your medical but have not yet had it, then there should be no problem in the CAA refunding the £87 for the EEG.
Just mention it to the reception when you go for the medical, and i'm sure they'll refund without any problem.
Just mention it to the reception when you go for the medical, and i'm sure they'll refund without any problem.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
gareth08,
Can you give me a link to the paper of Clark and Riley 'screening EEG in aircrew selection: clinical aerospace neurology perspective'? I tried viewing it on the official aviation space and environmental medicine website but the actual text isn't there.
Being in the same predicament as you (denied medical thanks to failed EEG), I'm seriously considering emigrating to the U.S.
Does anyone know how the situation with the FAA is if I'm telling them I had my JAA medical denied because of the EEG? Would they just ignore that or come up with lots of extra checks?
Best Wishes
Can you give me a link to the paper of Clark and Riley 'screening EEG in aircrew selection: clinical aerospace neurology perspective'? I tried viewing it on the official aviation space and environmental medicine website but the actual text isn't there.
Being in the same predicament as you (denied medical thanks to failed EEG), I'm seriously considering emigrating to the U.S.
Does anyone know how the situation with the FAA is if I'm telling them I had my JAA medical denied because of the EEG? Would they just ignore that or come up with lots of extra checks?
Best Wishes
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: london
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi 7E7
I was in the same position as you a while back, having failed the EEG. Have you tried harrassing the CAA as i did and they had no grounds to stop me from getting the class one as they dont recognise the test anymore, therefore they issued me it.
Sharpey
I was in the same position as you a while back, having failed the EEG. Have you tried harrassing the CAA as i did and they had no grounds to stop me from getting the class one as they dont recognise the test anymore, therefore they issued me it.
Sharpey
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The big problem is that I'm from another JAA country where the EEG remains a requirement. Harrassing the local CAA might do more harm than good, and I probably can't get a "favorable opinion" from any neurologist here. Of course they would all try to justify EEGs in aircrew selection to improve their income and besides they are all extremely cautious about writing a good report for somebody who has a seizure risk potentially increased by 0.0000000000001%!
Can anybody tell me how I need to proceed if I'm moving my whole certification stuff to the UK CAA (if at all possible at this "denied" stage)? What if I definitely can't get a "good" report on my EEG, would the UKCAA just ignore that and issue me with a UK Class 1, given the fact I have no neurologic problems at all (like almost everybody else in the same plight!!)? All other reports/findings were normal at the medical.
I'm still considering going to the U.S. but need to find out first how they would handle the matter.
Thanks for any help with this!
Can anybody tell me how I need to proceed if I'm moving my whole certification stuff to the UK CAA (if at all possible at this "denied" stage)? What if I definitely can't get a "good" report on my EEG, would the UKCAA just ignore that and issue me with a UK Class 1, given the fact I have no neurologic problems at all (like almost everybody else in the same plight!!)? All other reports/findings were normal at the medical.
I'm still considering going to the U.S. but need to find out first how they would handle the matter.
Thanks for any help with this!