Eyesight: Simple question... tricky answer?
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Eyesight: Simple question... tricky answer?
Hello there,
I am currently 15 and training for my Private Pilot's License and the plans currently are what most aspiring pilots set out. As we know if we've studied the Class 1 requirments, correction must not exceed +- 5 dioptres, and astismatism and myopia must not exceed 2 dioptres for the initial examination.
My question is this: my eyesight is -2 dioptres and +0.25 dioptres, which puts me well within the limits in terms of correction, and I have no astigmatism, but as is observable I am .25 of a dioptre (!) outside the myopia limits.
To further this question and perhaps refresh some of you, the requirments for the actual renewal of a Class 1 ups the myopia limit (that is, the differential in dioptres between the eyes) to 3 dioptres.
I am positive I read somewhere once that if you do not fulfil the requirments for a Class 1 initial but do for the Class 1 renewal then so long as you can satisfy the CAA AME that your eyesight is acceptable you may still be issued with a medical.
My case is rather unique; the reason (or so I understand) for the myopia limit is because the larger the differential is in dioptres between your eyes, supposedly the less effective your brain is to process depth perception, although upon questioning my optician about this I was told (following a few tests) my depth perception was excellent!
So, I suppose my real question is; in terms of 'optics', what options do I have open to me?
My instructor has advised me to attain my Class 1 as soon as possible so I at least fulfil the initial requirments, and then if my eyes do worsen I can cross the bridge when it comes to that in terms of renewals.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks and rgrds,
Jack.
I am currently 15 and training for my Private Pilot's License and the plans currently are what most aspiring pilots set out. As we know if we've studied the Class 1 requirments, correction must not exceed +- 5 dioptres, and astismatism and myopia must not exceed 2 dioptres for the initial examination.
My question is this: my eyesight is -2 dioptres and +0.25 dioptres, which puts me well within the limits in terms of correction, and I have no astigmatism, but as is observable I am .25 of a dioptre (!) outside the myopia limits.
To further this question and perhaps refresh some of you, the requirments for the actual renewal of a Class 1 ups the myopia limit (that is, the differential in dioptres between the eyes) to 3 dioptres.
I am positive I read somewhere once that if you do not fulfil the requirments for a Class 1 initial but do for the Class 1 renewal then so long as you can satisfy the CAA AME that your eyesight is acceptable you may still be issued with a medical.
My case is rather unique; the reason (or so I understand) for the myopia limit is because the larger the differential is in dioptres between your eyes, supposedly the less effective your brain is to process depth perception, although upon questioning my optician about this I was told (following a few tests) my depth perception was excellent!
So, I suppose my real question is; in terms of 'optics', what options do I have open to me?
My instructor has advised me to attain my Class 1 as soon as possible so I at least fulfil the initial requirments, and then if my eyes do worsen I can cross the bridge when it comes to that in terms of renewals.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks and rgrds,
Jack.
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As you have said you don't meet the inital CAA class 1 requirements, however the CAA themselves state that if you don't meet the intial limits but fall into the renewal limits then speak to them and they will look at each case on a individual basis. Give them a call, they've always been very friendly with me (if not always giving me the news I wanted to hear!) but they will be able to set you straight on exactly whats cricket.
As your instructor says try and get your medical sorted ASAP as it is the one thing that you can't change if you can pass or not. Good luck!
As your instructor says try and get your medical sorted ASAP as it is the one thing that you can't change if you can pass or not. Good luck!
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I understand myopia as short-sightedness therefore the +/- 5 limit applies to this - you are well within this limit. The 2.00 limit is for astigmatism - you have none so seem to meet this requirement as well.
I think there are two limits - one for short/long-sight (+/- 5 either way) and one for astigmatism (2.00).
This is how I've alsways understood it...in which case you are well within limits and are unlikely to suffer any massive degradation (looking at your age).
Think you're fine mate
V1R
P.S. Run a search on "Deviation" etc. - you'll find tonnes of info on borderline cases...I've read and posted in many. The CAA are very helpful.
I think there are two limits - one for short/long-sight (+/- 5 either way) and one for astigmatism (2.00).
This is how I've alsways understood it...in which case you are well within limits and are unlikely to suffer any massive degradation (looking at your age).
Think you're fine mate
V1R
P.S. Run a search on "Deviation" etc. - you'll find tonnes of info on borderline cases...I've read and posted in many. The CAA are very helpful.
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VOR,
As I read his post I'm afraid he does have a problem, although he is getting his terminology mixed up.
Your correct in saying that the limits are -+5 for long/short sightedness, and the astigmatism limit is 2. However Halfbakedboys problem is that he is just outside the limit for anisometropia (this is the difference in the correction between the eyes). This cannot be more then 2.
Since one of his eyes is -2 and the other is +0.25 he is 0.25 outside the intial limit for this unfortunatly. This limit however is 3 for renewal so he should talk to the CAA and they can give him all the information.
As I read his post I'm afraid he does have a problem, although he is getting his terminology mixed up.
Your correct in saying that the limits are -+5 for long/short sightedness, and the astigmatism limit is 2. However Halfbakedboys problem is that he is just outside the limit for anisometropia (this is the difference in the correction between the eyes). This cannot be more then 2.
Since one of his eyes is -2 and the other is +0.25 he is 0.25 outside the intial limit for this unfortunatly. This limit however is 3 for renewal so he should talk to the CAA and they can give him all the information.
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best thing you can do is to have a word with the CAA medical section. Adrian Chorley is the optometrist there and he's very helpful. Fax him a copy of your prescription and he can give you a definitive answer.
good luck
JD
good luck
JD
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I would also say that if your eyesight is showing a deteriorating trend and not stabilised, you might like to think very carefully before committing yourself financially and emotionally to a career in aviation, as it is already fairly close even to the renewal limit.
Anyway, the best thing to do is as Jelly Doughnut suggested.
Anyway, the best thing to do is as Jelly Doughnut suggested.
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I stand corrected - rushed through the post before work this morning.
I can echo what others are hinting at - the CAA are extremely helpful and will look at each case individually.
I myself have a negligible 0.25 (R) and no (L) dioptres of short sight but 2.75 dioptres of astigmatism in each eye. When I finish my PPL the CAA have said they can test me to Class I renewal standards (because of the PPL and Class II) and issue me with a Class I (Deviation). Once the commericial training is finished, this will become a standard Class I. I'm 22 and therefore am unlikely to see any big changes in my vision i.e. these values are likely to be pretty stable...until old age kicks in
V1R
I can echo what others are hinting at - the CAA are extremely helpful and will look at each case individually.
I myself have a negligible 0.25 (R) and no (L) dioptres of short sight but 2.75 dioptres of astigmatism in each eye. When I finish my PPL the CAA have said they can test me to Class I renewal standards (because of the PPL and Class II) and issue me with a Class I (Deviation). Once the commericial training is finished, this will become a standard Class I. I'm 22 and therefore am unlikely to see any big changes in my vision i.e. these values are likely to be pretty stable...until old age kicks in
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Non normal makes a good point.
You may be able to scrape through - the CAA are very positive about getting you through. However you are 15 and the eyes have a few years yet before they stabilise. You could easily deteriorate beyond the renewal limits in the next 4 or 5 years, when they would take it off you.
I think they would be unlikely to grant a dispensation inital until you are a bit older. Which although it's crap now may be in your interests long term.
Good luck
SK
You may be able to scrape through - the CAA are very positive about getting you through. However you are 15 and the eyes have a few years yet before they stabilise. You could easily deteriorate beyond the renewal limits in the next 4 or 5 years, when they would take it off you.
I think they would be unlikely to grant a dispensation inital until you are a bit older. Which although it's crap now may be in your interests long term.
Good luck
SK
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Thanks for the info. My prescription has not changed at all since I was 9 years of age so things look pretty stable in that area. To whoever said I might think about another career... that'd be a real bubble burster; there is nothing else I can think of that I would like to do; for the past 4 years I've been reading up on various aspects of flying, from PPL level to ATPL level.
Just a change to the question... 'what if' my eyes did remain stable through my teens, twenties and so on? Does anyone have any experience in this?
Many thanks and regards,
Jack.
Just a change to the question... 'what if' my eyes did remain stable through my teens, twenties and so on? Does anyone have any experience in this?
Many thanks and regards,
Jack.
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'what if' my eyes did remain stable through my teens, twenties and so on? Does anyone have any experience in this?
Thankfully I am still able to hold the Class 1, however had I started with close-to-the-limit eyesight, I would not have. Throughout my teens I maintained the eyesight where I did not require glasses for anything. However at around 20 years of age, my eyesight dropped by around 1.5 dioptres. Then it stablised for a while. Then it dropped further between the age of 25 and 30 by another 1-1.5 dioptres. No cause is known in my case - it just deteriorated. Fortunately, it has now been stable for a while. However, while it was deteriorating, I would have been quite worried had my eyesight been close to the renewal limit.
Of course this is all extremely individual and you cannot say that because other people suffered from this and that, you too would.
Asking your optometrist on statistical data on eyesight deterioration may give you some insight into the issue.
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Intriguing but fortunate story indeed 
Once again, thanks for the advice, and on another note, something I'd like to draw to anyone's attention who'd be interested, 'technically', I would be fitter to hold a Class 1 medical if my eyesight in my right eye deteriorated by one and a half dioptres! It's amazing the way some things work isn't it!
But on a serious note, I do understand why the CAA set down such stringent regulations and fully identify with their concern for the safety of the passengers and the aircraft; after all, when there are over a hundred lives in the hands of a couple of people, it's essential that they are fit enough physically (and mentally) to fly the aircraft... although whilst flying down to Le Touquet at the beginning of the holidays, neither my instructor (who's vision is unflinching/ 20/20) nor I saw the two French Tornadoes coming towards us at over 500 mph until there were practically up our arse!
Many thanks,
Jack.
Once again, thanks for the advice, and on another note, something I'd like to draw to anyone's attention who'd be interested, 'technically', I would be fitter to hold a Class 1 medical if my eyesight in my right eye deteriorated by one and a half dioptres! It's amazing the way some things work isn't it!
But on a serious note, I do understand why the CAA set down such stringent regulations and fully identify with their concern for the safety of the passengers and the aircraft; after all, when there are over a hundred lives in the hands of a couple of people, it's essential that they are fit enough physically (and mentally) to fly the aircraft... although whilst flying down to Le Touquet at the beginning of the holidays, neither my instructor (who's vision is unflinching/ 20/20) nor I saw the two French Tornadoes coming towards us at over 500 mph until there were practically up our arse!
Many thanks,
Jack.
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my eyesight
I know halfbakedboy and neither him or I will chnage career paths even if we have to rewrite the CAA guidlines...only if, No I undertsand theres lifes on the line. I am suffering with myopia -5 and -4.25 which puts me out of class 1 intial but in for renewal, can anyone provide ideas/check i have no other problems?
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A happy and successful career in aviation requires the ability to find the relevant information.
So the answer to your posting is:
1. Read these relevant bits on the CAA website and
2. How can we know whether there is something else wrong with you? Can't do a medical over the internet can we, nor mindread.
Best of luck
FD
So the answer to your posting is:
1. Read these relevant bits on the CAA website and
2. How can we know whether there is something else wrong with you? Can't do a medical over the internet can we, nor mindread.
Best of luck
FD
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Hey FD, how're things?
I think the reason he is saying this is because the prescription he received stating the above was, perhaps 6 months ago, maybe a year, you'd have to ask him, and he's worried his eyesight may have deteriorated still.
Anyway, I've spoken to him, and for now I'm going to concentrate on going solo, then I'll start thinking about getting a class one; there's no point in worrying myself because after him and I have read extensively on the subject we have found out that if we do indeed meet the renewal standards then we can have issued what's known as a 'deviation' on our medical, which will be removed once we have completed professional training at an adequate level, that is, a certain percentage.
I have had the Class 2 so I'm 99.9% sure there is nothing wrong with my insides, and I have never had an epileptic fit so it honestly is purely the optical side of the medical I am concerned about.
As Karl said, I do have very very scratchy alternatives to flying, but to be quite honest, I've studied ATPL level flying for the past three years so I'm not prepared to give up without a word in. I could understand 'all very well', err, 'think about another career' if I hadn't invested the time (not money, but time) so far I have into a career into aviation.
The thing is, my eyesight is 20/20 when I use both my eyes together. It is also 20/20 when I use my right eye on its own, but my vision is something like 20/100 with just my left eye itself.
It really is ridiculous in my opinion, to be perfectly honest. Obviously if my right eye was somehow damaged to the point of blindness during flight I would not be very useful, but if something happens so bad to an eye it renders it useless, you're already in a pretty ****** up situation.
Excuse my bitching, but I am a dedicated flyer, I enjoy what's a hobby now extensively and plan to an equally extensive level to change this hobby into a career in the future, so let's have some optimism. I think about realism enough in my own head, so if there are some optimistics among you, please do speak up. This is not to say that those who have replied are pessimists, not at all; you are being realistic, but I worry myself enough thinking about the real world that I do like to have bright-minded words around me when we come onto the subject of aviation.
I'm sorry for my droning, but I do take flying extremely seriously; I am always at my happiest when I am about to enter an aircraft, flying an aircraft, or walking away from an aircraft... even if I've just finished cleaning it!
But many thanks to all who have taken the time to reply and my regards,
Jack.
I think the reason he is saying this is because the prescription he received stating the above was, perhaps 6 months ago, maybe a year, you'd have to ask him, and he's worried his eyesight may have deteriorated still.
Anyway, I've spoken to him, and for now I'm going to concentrate on going solo, then I'll start thinking about getting a class one; there's no point in worrying myself because after him and I have read extensively on the subject we have found out that if we do indeed meet the renewal standards then we can have issued what's known as a 'deviation' on our medical, which will be removed once we have completed professional training at an adequate level, that is, a certain percentage.
I have had the Class 2 so I'm 99.9% sure there is nothing wrong with my insides, and I have never had an epileptic fit so it honestly is purely the optical side of the medical I am concerned about.
As Karl said, I do have very very scratchy alternatives to flying, but to be quite honest, I've studied ATPL level flying for the past three years so I'm not prepared to give up without a word in. I could understand 'all very well', err, 'think about another career' if I hadn't invested the time (not money, but time) so far I have into a career into aviation.
The thing is, my eyesight is 20/20 when I use both my eyes together. It is also 20/20 when I use my right eye on its own, but my vision is something like 20/100 with just my left eye itself.
It really is ridiculous in my opinion, to be perfectly honest. Obviously if my right eye was somehow damaged to the point of blindness during flight I would not be very useful, but if something happens so bad to an eye it renders it useless, you're already in a pretty ****** up situation.
Excuse my bitching, but I am a dedicated flyer, I enjoy what's a hobby now extensively and plan to an equally extensive level to change this hobby into a career in the future, so let's have some optimism. I think about realism enough in my own head, so if there are some optimistics among you, please do speak up. This is not to say that those who have replied are pessimists, not at all; you are being realistic, but I worry myself enough thinking about the real world that I do like to have bright-minded words around me when we come onto the subject of aviation.
I'm sorry for my droning, but I do take flying extremely seriously; I am always at my happiest when I am about to enter an aircraft, flying an aircraft, or walking away from an aircraft... even if I've just finished cleaning it!
But many thanks to all who have taken the time to reply and my regards,
Jack.
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Bitching?
Hi Jack,
Not sure why you think you are bitching. Think you got the wrong end of the stick but the point I was trying to make was that CK said he was outside limits for an initial class 1 where he is according to the regs and his prescription within it.
As you say and I have said about a zillion times even if you are outside initial but inside renewal limits then it is worth talking to the CAA and see if you can follow the route with the 'deviation'
No don't think you are bitching at all just very passionate about the good cause.
Keep up the good work.
Frank Voeten
Hi Jack,
Not sure why you think you are bitching. Think you got the wrong end of the stick but the point I was trying to make was that CK said he was outside limits for an initial class 1 where he is according to the regs and his prescription within it.
As you say and I have said about a zillion times even if you are outside initial but inside renewal limits then it is worth talking to the CAA and see if you can follow the route with the 'deviation'
No don't think you are bitching at all just very passionate about the good cause.
Keep up the good work.
Frank Voeten
