Collective Color Blindness Thread (PART 1)
Guest
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Hi,
is there anybody who initially failed a JAA "coulourblindness-examination" and eventually passed it? I would like to hear from you because I failed Holmes Wright and now I have the intention to do a re-examination.
I hope to hear from you ASAP!
Gr. Peter
is there anybody who initially failed a JAA "coulourblindness-examination" and eventually passed it? I would like to hear from you because I failed Holmes Wright and now I have the intention to do a re-examination.
I hope to hear from you ASAP!
Gr. Peter
Guest
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Found this on the IAOPA website.
http://www.iaopa-eur.org/yipolctd.htm#pilot
It sets out IAOPA's position on the issue (ie that colour vision be an operational requirement)
I take this to mean that if you can show that you operate safely then you should be able to fly.
This is probably the best way to go about lobbying for a change (through IAOPA)
http://www.iaopa-eur.org/yipolctd.htm#pilot
It sets out IAOPA's position on the issue (ie that colour vision be an operational requirement)
I take this to mean that if you can show that you operate safely then you should be able to fly.
This is probably the best way to go about lobbying for a change (through IAOPA)
Guest
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If they allowed you to take the signal light gun test then you would be able to show that you could operate safely.
In the US this kind of waiver has been issued for many many years and not one single accident/incident has ever been attributed to a pilot with one of these waivers confusing colours. (according to the NTSB database)
A perfect record is hard to argue against.
In the US this kind of waiver has been issued for many many years and not one single accident/incident has ever been attributed to a pilot with one of these waivers confusing colours. (according to the NTSB database)
A perfect record is hard to argue against.
Guest
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Here is something I came across at the AME's just last week at my renewal. He used a device for checking eyes called the titmus vison tester. It is a compact machine that checks visual acuity and colour vision. It contains a sheet with six ishihara plates on it. However the difference is that the plates are correctly lighted. I passed the titmus vision tester which is by the way acceptable to the FAA but right afterwards he checked me with the same ishihara plates in a book and I failed that test. I must obviously be on the borderline but the point is that if the ishihara test is administerd in ideal conditions borderline people like me can pass it.
here is the website of the manufacturer
<A HREF="http://www.titmus.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.titmus.com</A>
what can the JAA have against such a machine?
here is the website of the manufacturer
<A HREF="http://www.titmus.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.titmus.com</A>
what can the JAA have against such a machine?
Guest
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I decided after seeing several posts not to pursue the option of going for a medical in the Netherlands. I'll just wait and see what happens when I go for my renewal in May.
The CAA have never (to the best of my knowledge) taken away privilages once you have them, so they'll have to issue some kind of medical to allow me to continue to instruct. The fact that I can't do so once the sun's gone down doesn't particularly bother me.
Right now I'm happy working outside of full-time aviation, and many professional guys reckon that to be a fortunate position. I earn enough to go and play in the sky whenever I want, but at the same time I can keep current on 150s (wow) for free (+ of course instructing is rewarding + educational in itself).
If I thought it was worth my while making a career change, or if I have a mid-life crisis, then probably my (or your) best chance of success would be to get an FAA CPL/IR and find a light twin to build hours on (there are lots of N regs here, but alternativly the States or perhaps Australia). Then, with an FAA ATPL and lots of night hours it may be possible to convince the dear old CAA that I don't have a crippling condition. The Irish CAA might be another alternative - a friend tells me they may issue an Irish license in exchange for an FAA one. He can then get me on the Airbus (Irish register see) (sush-don't tell anyone).
BTW what medical have you been issued with & what does it entitle you to do ?
Any road up, I'm off to practise my aeros.
TTFN & good luck
The CAA have never (to the best of my knowledge) taken away privilages once you have them, so they'll have to issue some kind of medical to allow me to continue to instruct. The fact that I can't do so once the sun's gone down doesn't particularly bother me.
Right now I'm happy working outside of full-time aviation, and many professional guys reckon that to be a fortunate position. I earn enough to go and play in the sky whenever I want, but at the same time I can keep current on 150s (wow) for free (+ of course instructing is rewarding + educational in itself).
If I thought it was worth my while making a career change, or if I have a mid-life crisis, then probably my (or your) best chance of success would be to get an FAA CPL/IR and find a light twin to build hours on (there are lots of N regs here, but alternativly the States or perhaps Australia). Then, with an FAA ATPL and lots of night hours it may be possible to convince the dear old CAA that I don't have a crippling condition. The Irish CAA might be another alternative - a friend tells me they may issue an Irish license in exchange for an FAA one. He can then get me on the Airbus (Irish register see) (sush-don't tell anyone).
BTW what medical have you been issued with & what does it entitle you to do ?
Any road up, I'm off to practise my aeros.
TTFN & good luck
Guest
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Isn't it time that we all grouped together and formed an active independant group that faught this. I'm defective but safe but that does not mean that each and every medical isn't a nightmare. I know I can see colours correctly especially red-greeen, furthermore I know of my "problem" and am extra cautious even had to correct the odd normal guy who passes the red stop bars....."oh didn't see the red lights", I have a mate in the same boat and we were discussing that we don't look at colour subconsionsly (spelling??) but take a second or two to confirm when it's safty critical and it's a late night etc. and the performance level is at an all time low. I have passed both the FALANT and the Holmes (the Holmes was a disaster the person testing heard pilot and proceeded to do a NASA medical.... three hours long... the end result failed it the first time and took six months to fight CAA for a retest. Each medical is the same procedure, don't show me the book I can't read half of those pages give me the lantern or something else. I've now got the procedure down pat, I go to an eye doc first do the FALANT and take the test. But that's not the solution... I fully agree with colour vision testing and the ability to distinguish between some primaries but we need the following.
1. A test designed specifically for COMMERCIAL aviation not military that can be administered 100% correctly in the AV. Docs rooms.
2. Demonstrated ability must be accepted, even if the test standards are tougher... say a check pilot is allocated the honour and rides along for 5 sectors or so and looks for problems. I'm not saying he sits with you a 350 and says what colour is that street lamp. But we get given real practical testing. And a favorite from one of the past doctors I've had "It is important to see red because you need to see the red line at the top of the airspeed indicator". The clown was a PPL but even if you only saw grey you would be a fool if you could not tell if you were redlining any instrument.
How about that action group?
1. A test designed specifically for COMMERCIAL aviation not military that can be administered 100% correctly in the AV. Docs rooms.
2. Demonstrated ability must be accepted, even if the test standards are tougher... say a check pilot is allocated the honour and rides along for 5 sectors or so and looks for problems. I'm not saying he sits with you a 350 and says what colour is that street lamp. But we get given real practical testing. And a favorite from one of the past doctors I've had "It is important to see red because you need to see the red line at the top of the airspeed indicator". The clown was a PPL but even if you only saw grey you would be a fool if you could not tell if you were redlining any instrument.
How about that action group?
Guest
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V2 - if I saw grey on the ASI then even I would have to force my argumentative self to give up!
I'm off to the eye-doc for yet more tests (non-CAA type) but what your saying is absolutely right. 152Driver flagged up the Denison case in Australia in an earlier posting - it's well worth a read but written in fairly tiresome legaleeze. Unfortunately there is not a similar type of tribuanl authority in the UK but I'm open to ideas to form some sort of group. We could try and demand a meeting with the CAA on mass, or put together a proprosal for further testing. No doubt Dr Pape down under might take an interest.
Charles Guthrie's (Chief of Defence Staff) comments today make interesting reading if taken in context. If the Armed Forces are made to accept disabled people in front line roles then the CAA won't have a leg to stand on(no pun intended)...How can they deny a Class I on the grounds of a disability which has never been proven as the couse of an accident?
I'm off to the eye-doc for yet more tests (non-CAA type) but what your saying is absolutely right. 152Driver flagged up the Denison case in Australia in an earlier posting - it's well worth a read but written in fairly tiresome legaleeze. Unfortunately there is not a similar type of tribuanl authority in the UK but I'm open to ideas to form some sort of group. We could try and demand a meeting with the CAA on mass, or put together a proprosal for further testing. No doubt Dr Pape down under might take an interest.
Charles Guthrie's (Chief of Defence Staff) comments today make interesting reading if taken in context. If the Armed Forces are made to accept disabled people in front line roles then the CAA won't have a leg to stand on(no pun intended)...How can they deny a Class I on the grounds of a disability which has never been proven as the couse of an accident?
Guest
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I spoke to the head of the AMS Ireland (Dr Laffan) and he told me that if you pass the holmes wright test once then he will not require you to do the test again. His opinion is that if you are declared Colour safe then you are for life. I have passed the FALANT but have never taken the holmes wright. I will be taking the test in early jan and I'll post results here.
I mentioned this in an earlier post, I passed one of the FAA alternative tests called the Titmus vision tester. It uses Six selected ishihara plates but the difference is that they are lighted correctly. I was able to see the numbers in the testing machine but when the same six plates were shown to me out of the book I could'nt see them. It is possible that a lot of people are being declared colour deficient because the test is not being given properly.
I mentioned this in an earlier post, I passed one of the FAA alternative tests called the Titmus vision tester. It uses Six selected ishihara plates but the difference is that they are lighted correctly. I was able to see the numbers in the testing machine but when the same six plates were shown to me out of the book I could'nt see them. It is possible that a lot of people are being declared colour deficient because the test is not being given properly.
Guest
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The tests are almost never given properly, how often do you sit down the nurse throws the book at you and it's next, next, next. I've had tests under florescent lights, day light, dark rooms on grey days etc. the manufacturer says 75cm away at right angles to your field of vision. how often does the nurse hold the book on her lap or just above it.
That is my point we need specific tests drawn up for aviation that tell you right there and then pass fail, even if every test is the FALANT because once you fail the book and get sent for the FALANT or Lantern you already have a FAIL on your record and CAA etc al get suspicious remove the FAIL and everybody gets tested the same.
Going in mass to CAA? How about to ALPA, convincing them first because we don't have there 100% commitment, there is still the feeling I get from ALPA.... I'm fine I don't want to share my cockpit with a colour blind guy (forget the fact you are sharing the flight deck with a guy who hides the fact he boozes a dozen Scotches everynight and is grosly overweight and has a mild heart condition)!!! Once we have ALPA's support we then hit the CAA with some firm ALPA backing possible even with a few ALPA paid lawyers and medical experts from ALPAs side. I think having ALPA would also help because this is generally a new pilot problem you arrive at CAA as a student pilot to try convince them having a few solid grey haired old Captains in the team will give it more clout.
That is my point we need specific tests drawn up for aviation that tell you right there and then pass fail, even if every test is the FALANT because once you fail the book and get sent for the FALANT or Lantern you already have a FAIL on your record and CAA etc al get suspicious remove the FAIL and everybody gets tested the same.
Going in mass to CAA? How about to ALPA, convincing them first because we don't have there 100% commitment, there is still the feeling I get from ALPA.... I'm fine I don't want to share my cockpit with a colour blind guy (forget the fact you are sharing the flight deck with a guy who hides the fact he boozes a dozen Scotches everynight and is grosly overweight and has a mild heart condition)!!! Once we have ALPA's support we then hit the CAA with some firm ALPA backing possible even with a few ALPA paid lawyers and medical experts from ALPAs side. I think having ALPA would also help because this is generally a new pilot problem you arrive at CAA as a student pilot to try convince them having a few solid grey haired old Captains in the team will give it more clout.
Guest
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Has anybody tried the 'ColorMax Color Vision Enhancement Lenses' ( http://www.colormaxtech.com/ ) yet? Or know somebody who did? I have the same problem as many of you in this topic seem to have, and when I take a look at this product, it might be the answer to this problem. But... 'seeing is believing' 
and because it's not available in the Netherlands yet, I'm curious if any of you have any experience with it.
Rog?!
[This message has been edited by Red or green?! (edited 04 January 2001).]
and because it's not available in the Netherlands yet, I'm curious if any of you have any experience with it.Rog?!
[This message has been edited by Red or green?! (edited 04 January 2001).]
Guest
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Im have tryed the colour lenses, they have been around in Aust for a number of years (apparently). I failed the Plates test but after putting in my wizz bang new $400 lenses I was able to see ALL of the numbers in the book. They are hard lenses and are coloured pink! (Dont expect to be pulling the women) They make some colours seem different when using them everyday. One I noticed wass the screen on my mobile phone was much greener than ever before. They are VERY uncomfortable to wear and I have stopped wearing them as they are not recognised by CASA.
Let me know if you want more info.
Let me know if you want more info.