FAA fit / JAR unfit

Johe2

I know about the colored lenses and who has them and that they are very expensive too and that almost anybody with colour vision problems will pass most Ishihara cards and probably the lantern, wearing the colored lenses.. but the issue is that they are not allowed to wear for flying.

Can you give more info about CAA accepting the lenses or how your friend managed to do it.. Did he get a 1st class w/out restrictions? Can you ask? I´ll give you my e-mail if you just don´t want to post it here. I will appreciate any help..

[email protected]

Thanks

unfazed

Sounds like Bo&*%$ocks to me

If this is a true case then the CAA are lying inconsistent toss£$rs
(on the other hand........)

Seriously though I have an FAA class 1, UK CPL, UK FI and was told that coloured lenses are not permitted

If your friend has found a way around this then please ask him to PM me with a few tips

Hopefully !
Discretion assured

FAA fit / JAR unfit

Hi unfazed..

You mean that you are colour vision defficient also?
You have an FAA 1st class and a UK CPL?

I believe the case that johe2 wrote here is true and my case is not one to believe that, (check my first post in july 1st in this same page) but I know that european aviation authorities sometimes do whatever they want in very specific cases and you can find luckiness by reaching at the right moment with the right person, obviously if you are monochromat, they will laugh at any request for flying a glass cockpit for example.

Right now I am fighting back for 3rd time for my JAR 1st class med in order to convert my FAA CPL/IR licence, with a mild colour vision problem. I am doing all the tests available (I passed the FAA´s Farnsworth in the beginning of my carrier and who knows, might be able to pass any of the JAA´s not tried yet) and coloured lenses it is an option.. even though they are not allowed..

This is what I call B!%%$h#T.. I´ve got it from the FAA but not from the JAA!!??

P.D Sorry for my english..

2close

FAA/JAR,

Being CVD does not bar you from holding a JAA CPL / IR.

The JAA Class 1 Medical will have deviations placed on it restricting you to:

Daytime flight only

NPT (No Public Transport) which means no passenger carriage

But you can do other work, such as instructing, crop spraying (in the UK??) or banner towing.

But you would not be able to fly remunerated passenger transport aircraft.

I am not sure, though, how it would relate to freight work.

Best Regards,

2close

unfazed

FAA FIT / JAA UNFIT

Yes I have a problem with white & green and have a FAA Class 1 after passing tower light signal test in Florida (Statement Of Demonstrated Ability) however UK/CAA have placed the restrictions that 2close mentions on my license.

Take my advice - do not bang your head against a brick wall like I have for the past 10+ years. If one state will allow you to fly for a career and another one won't then it is a no brainer - stick with the one that will allow you your dream. Especially if their aircraft make up 70 % of the worlds fleet.

Would love to fly professionally in JAA land but will have to wait until a more progressive and enlightened era begins

Don't ever stop dreaming but look for path of least resistance in ordwer to stay sane (important thing is to keep flying and don't let the ba@$%3rds get you down). remember where there is a will there is a way !

FAA fit / JAR unfit

Hi Unfazed.. you are very right about that in your message..

We are on the same path (read my story posted in this same forum the 1st of july.. "a real color vision story..any advice?")..

I am in the same road as you are.. the difference is that I´ve got my FAA 1st in USA w/out a waiver or SODA (as per the FAA told me in a official letter, I passed the Farnsworth lantern, no restrictions)..

I am not american and I have no green card and I am already established in europe (bornplace) so I have to fight for my JAA with tooth and nails.. Right now I am appealing in my country (denied 1st med more than 10 years ago, but now JAR-FCL are into effect).. I will let you know the outcomes and the strategy, I might get an answer next week (I have no hopes anyway but, never knows)..

Have you tried all the lanterns as per JAR-FCL (Beyne, Holmes-Wright, Spectrolux)?

I might get knocked once again, and I might end up going to tribunals (which I will).. we have to fight for our dreams!!

Johe02

Stumbled across this on another thread and thought it might be of some use here. .

unfazed

FAA FIT / JAR UNFIT

I have tried both the Specrolux & Holmes lantern unfortunately without success

Good luck with fighting for a change of attitude or rules

My advice to go FAA route was based on you staying in Europe and flying N Reg aircraft so no requirement for a green card. Most business people realise that N Reg is a better business proposition which also enables less restricted operations. Most biz jets are N reg for that reason.

Just a thought !

2close

I believe that the JAA states and the FAA are now entering into discussions to reach a common standard across all authorities.

I also believe that London City University is conducting tests into a new computer based process for identifying CVD pilots and that they may also be involved in the dicussions.

If they do reach a common standard, where this will lead is anyone's guess at the moment. How it will affect those who have previously passed FAA but failed JAA (or vice versa) and whether grandfather rights would be applicable or whether CVD pilots would need to retake any new standard test is also a question that needs to be raised.

I would have thought that it has to be put forward for consultation prior to implementation so it may be worth keeping an eye on the CAA web-site.

Best Regards,

2close

unfazed

2close - Thanks for the latest info. It's great to hear that the men in suits are still "talking" but as Churchill would have said "action this day !"

I hope that decisions are made after factual research and testing using CVD pilots (anything less will not be credible) e.g. Go fly and see what problems if any are encvountered in the real environment of an aircraft (what workarounds are possible etc).

By the way are you affected by colour vision yourself, You seem well briefed on official status so I wonder if you are a symphatetic and well briefed "mole on the inside" ?

FAA fit / JAR unfit

I know that City University has been entrusted by the CAA to develop a new "CVD test", it will consist of some kind of simulator for testing how CVD´s pilots develop their "tasks". This is what they personally told me.. it sounds more reasonable but... will JAR-FCL 3.225 will change? less strict?

I think they have to finish the simulator sometime around this year.. but anyway I think that it will take very long until "standarization"..

Keep the faith but keep fighting..

unfazed

Simulators are great things but for something like colour blindness I think that we should understand the actual environment and not a simulated environment

What is the difficulty in flying a real aircraft at night with a CAA examiner who conducts some objective tests to see how the pilot does (pilots who are CVD would foot the cost and at least it is a real world practical test based on real world operations and environment).

gijoe

As one who had done the new test at City it is different. There is a link to it somewhere on the web which I will try and find and then post.

The research at City has been ongoing for a little while now - I'll give them a bell and report back to you all.

G


Here it is:

http://www.city.ac.uk/avrc/colourtest.html

Click on the biggest of the 'greyed' squares and it will come to life to give you a preview of the new test.

unfazed

gijoe - Thanks for the link which is very interesting

The test looks good but my point is that it is simply another test to diagnose this condition (albeit a more fun test). I know I have an issue with night colour vision (white / green ) in some situations (not all obviously or I wouldn't be safe at traffic lights etc).

What I would like to see is a test involving a night flight where safety is judged by an examiner based upon the successful operation of an aircraft in the night environment.

unfazed

P.S. Just got my ever loyal wife to double check me on this new test and I can see all of the colours all of the time and correctly !

Fingers crossed !

gijoe

Be careful as the actual test is different from the one shown on the link. That one is for demo purposes only.

The real tests produces 3 overlapping ellipses that give an indication of where your weaknesses and strengths may be. 'Normal's will have a small overlapping area in the middle of the ellipses whereas a CVD will have a bigger area as they are unable to distinguish between some of the colours.

I have tried to contact someone at City but my email got bounced back. I'll report later.

G

FAA fit / JAR unfit

Hi guys.. the test from City University is one that they have developed recently for identifying CVD´s, it is just another color vision test.. It has nothing to do with the one they are working with now. I´ve done it recently and CVD´s just don´t pass it. Besides, it´s not a valid test as per JAR-FCL.. it is just for their evaluation purposes.

gijoe

Beware - don't confuse this with the City Uni test which is 5 dots arranged in a cross pattern where you then have to identify the odd one out.

This is totally different from the new unaccredited test.

G

Illget

Hi guys,

I read back a long way in this forum and there is so much info.

Myself, I have a slight green CVD and confuse certain greens with white. Of course never in real life, just on a lantern!

I have done a lot of my own research into the subject and have read so many things in so many different places. Some have caught my attention such as the shades of greens used in aviation as appose to the ones used in traffic lights (I have read that the green in traffic lights is specifically chosen so as to appear green to more CVD's) I bet this isn't the case in aviation! (and incidentally I don't know if this is true of traffic lights but they always look green to me)

I personally have an unrestricted FAA medical after passing a lantern test (not sure which one) with no faults. But guess what? I failed the CAA one. I have also been for tests at my local opticians where I passed colour normal on the 'hue test' (not ishiara which I always fail but not by far) and have spent endless nights looking out to sea and asking friends/relatives to verify the colours I see are correct! (and they are)

I have read that the CAA plan to bring in a new test soon and all I would like is a world-wide standard that is fair (as per Arthur Papes research) and not just another test to weed out us unfortunates. I too have taken the test on the city university web site with no problems at all.

What is clear by looking back along this forum is that all we seem to do is talk about it. This forum goes back five years and what's changed? Anyone made a difference? I'm not saying I could but I'm sure a few of us could. Why don't we all chip in five hundred quid each to get some research done? Or at least pursue some legal angle on this. I talked to ACASS recently who told me it wasn't classed a disability because it didn't affect our everyday lives (and I'm not for one minute suggesting were dissabled) But I'm sure we could look at other angles. What about changing all green lights to blue! I'm sure that will attract a multitude of reasons but it would allow a lot of CVD's a chance to distinguish nav lights. It's only a bulb!

Personally I have to make the choice of going to the states and biting the bullet to do an FAA commercial hoping I might get a job in an FAA jurisdiction (marry and American) or in an N-reg plane. For a lot of investment that is a huge risk to take. The other option is to try to get something done about these rules or at least get some standards set so I wouldn't have this dilemma of whether to go to the USA or not.

Incidentally the CAA won't tell me when they plan to introduce a new test and the City University don't reply to emails, but why not try as well.

I am looking into the possibility of taking my medical in another JAA country so if anyone has any info in this please PM me. Perhaps we can at least set up a web site to get as many people with CVD's passed as possible by offering information and address's/hotels/directions and booking details for medicals in other countries and what type of tests they do. In fact, thinking about it, all we would need to do is get one place where you can come and take all the tests, see which you pass and then point you in the direction of the country/doctor who conducts that particular test. We all know these rules are absolute Boll**ks so lets do something about it!

Hope this thread has been helpful.

whitelabel

Geat idea,

Nothing happens because we cant do anything to it!!
Rules are Rules and the JAA is one though bitch!

If you want to have some influence you need 3 things!

1. money
2. time
3. a team of investigators

We all want to pass the test. Some of them would even cheat!!
I can understand that. Why is it possible to fly day and night on the biggest aircraft in australian airspace and not in european airspace?? Why is SODA valid in US but not in europe??
Invstigation is not neccecery because it is proven that a SODA is SAFE!! The FAA used it since the early days of aviation.

The only thing that we can do is fly SEP's during daytime.
No IR and no CPL!!
It is really un******* believable!!
I still can get pissed off if they tell me: due to CRT's its more difficult to distinquish colours so an error is possible.
And you could have problems with PAPI. Those people dont know anything about flying!

Ever heard of an ILS??? or VOR/NDB???
Proffesional pilots dont use PAPI! And if they fly VFR its a nice backup to check your glidepath but not neccecery!!

Investigation is no pre because there are enouch pilots without a job!

The only thing we can do to hope for a miracle.

any info is always welcome.

See this website. http://www.vfcev.de/content/eng-index.html


greetz chris