Collective Color Blindness Thread (PART 1)
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I did pass in the US the signal light test straight away, but there are many factors that could cause to fail the test. I was able to change the airport, because on the other airport I would have had the sun blinding me, which makes it harder to pass. It also depends on the signal gun, some are more intense in their colors than others, which makes it easier for some people to pass the test.
I also took a test at the Gatwick airport and they have the Beynes and Holmes Wright test there. In my opinion is the Holmes Wright test easier to pass than the Beynes, but this is also like the different signal guns different for each individual.
I failed the Holmes Wright test by 1 wrong signal..., but I will take another one in Holland and I will also go for the Spektrolux Test in Switzerland. If I read the JAR-FCL 3 correctly, the JAA says you have to pass one of their tests, but they don't say how often you are allowed to try..., so keep trying, it is also a matter of luck...
I can totally agree to Blinkz, flying is my dream and I fought for my first class medical for more than 3 years by now and I wasn't able to get it in Europe, but since I have nothing left that would keep me here, I'm also willing to move somewhere else and so I tried my luck in the country where I feel home, the US and as I said, I passed...
Now I'm looking for ways to finance my education and I'm also searching for a company that helps me with the visa, so that I'll be able to move to the US.
But even if I want to work in Europe, there are many companies operating N registered businessjets and I could fly them.
So who ever has the same problem, keep fighting, it is worth it...
I also took a test at the Gatwick airport and they have the Beynes and Holmes Wright test there. In my opinion is the Holmes Wright test easier to pass than the Beynes, but this is also like the different signal guns different for each individual.
I failed the Holmes Wright test by 1 wrong signal..., but I will take another one in Holland and I will also go for the Spektrolux Test in Switzerland. If I read the JAR-FCL 3 correctly, the JAA says you have to pass one of their tests, but they don't say how often you are allowed to try..., so keep trying, it is also a matter of luck...
I can totally agree to Blinkz, flying is my dream and I fought for my first class medical for more than 3 years by now and I wasn't able to get it in Europe, but since I have nothing left that would keep me here, I'm also willing to move somewhere else and so I tried my luck in the country where I feel home, the US and as I said, I passed...
Now I'm looking for ways to finance my education and I'm also searching for a company that helps me with the visa, so that I'll be able to move to the US.
But even if I want to work in Europe, there are many companies operating N registered businessjets and I could fly them.
So who ever has the same problem, keep fighting, it is worth it...
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I do find it quite baffling that there can be different levels of acceptance in different countries within a professional environment that can affect many nations in a single journey.
When an industry has international effects, as with commercial international air traffic where multiple countries are crossed, wouldn't it make sense to have an ICAO Medical Standard, not National or even Continental standards.
God forbit it should ever happen, but for the sake of discussion, what would the implications be if, for example, a FAA licensed pilot with a SODA, flying a US civil airliner at night in VMC, incorrectly interprets the PAPI / VASI lights and crashes into a built up area short of the runway in a JAA member state? Irrespective of the fact that the pilot meets the medical standards of the country in which the aircraft is registered, the fact is that the pilot does not meet the medical standards of the country in which the flight is being made at the time of the accident. Pilot error aside, where in this example would the responsibility lie?
Does anyone know the current talk regarding SODA's following the NTSB's recommendations to the FAA following the Tallahassee Incident Report?
When an industry has international effects, as with commercial international air traffic where multiple countries are crossed, wouldn't it make sense to have an ICAO Medical Standard, not National or even Continental standards.
God forbit it should ever happen, but for the sake of discussion, what would the implications be if, for example, a FAA licensed pilot with a SODA, flying a US civil airliner at night in VMC, incorrectly interprets the PAPI / VASI lights and crashes into a built up area short of the runway in a JAA member state? Irrespective of the fact that the pilot meets the medical standards of the country in which the aircraft is registered, the fact is that the pilot does not meet the medical standards of the country in which the flight is being made at the time of the accident. Pilot error aside, where in this example would the responsibility lie?
Does anyone know the current talk regarding SODA's following the NTSB's recommendations to the FAA following the Tallahassee Incident Report?
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Well I don't know if they want to change it and how far they will go by changing it, but I do know from reading the incident report and talking to the AOPA and the Association Colors in Cockpit, original founded in Australia by Dr. Arthur Pape, and now there is another one in Germany founded by the same reason, that it is questioned that this accident really happened due to color vision.
The accident happened during the night, usually it is way easier to see PAPI and VASI lights then. Also both, the Captain and the flight engineer reported to the NTSB that they saw always the right order of colors, white, white, red, red...
Also an accident never occurs due to one mistake..., there is usually always backup, in this case the captain and the flight engineer, who would have said something if they would have seen that they were to low, because it is their life too.
But I guess this topic has been discussed in this forum, so I won't write more about it.
There is actually an ICAO medical standard, but it is just saying what countries need to have in their medical exams in order to meet the ICAO requirements to be a member of the ICAO.
The accident happened during the night, usually it is way easier to see PAPI and VASI lights then. Also both, the Captain and the flight engineer reported to the NTSB that they saw always the right order of colors, white, white, red, red...
Also an accident never occurs due to one mistake..., there is usually always backup, in this case the captain and the flight engineer, who would have said something if they would have seen that they were to low, because it is their life too.
But I guess this topic has been discussed in this forum, so I won't write more about it.
There is actually an ICAO medical standard, but it is just saying what countries need to have in their medical exams in order to meet the ICAO requirements to be a member of the ICAO.
To be brutyly honest there should be one test taken at one specfic location, if u fail u fail and that is that. If you are 1 or 2 out then a re examination should be at the testers discression. Surely if u fail in one place and pass in another something is not right. I myself may fail the CAA colour eye thingy at gatwick when i do go and get my class 1 even though i passed the one i took a year ago. I just god hope i do pass lol. If i fail i will question it as i passed before but hey, its up to the person testing you i think. His or her input must be taken into account
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RT,
Unfortantly colourvision is a very difficult subject when it comes to testing. There are so many different opinions to its importance, and individual tests accuracy.
The trouble i had with was with the beyne lantern. The white in the lantern is a very dodgy shade of white. i said that it was yellow, however then the real yellow popped up and i realised i'd failed.
I didn't like it because the test is supposed to test if you can differentiate between the colours, not to test your opinion to what the colour is.
The test I did in germany involved the examiner showing me each colour first and telling me what it was. The colours were then randomly shown to me, each colour being shown twice (still in a random order). I passed this.
I think this makes for a better test.
Unfortantly colourvision is a very difficult subject when it comes to testing. There are so many different opinions to its importance, and individual tests accuracy.
The trouble i had with was with the beyne lantern. The white in the lantern is a very dodgy shade of white. i said that it was yellow, however then the real yellow popped up and i realised i'd failed.
I didn't like it because the test is supposed to test if you can differentiate between the colours, not to test your opinion to what the colour is.
The test I did in germany involved the examiner showing me each colour first and telling me what it was. The colours were then randomly shown to me, each colour being shown twice (still in a random order). I passed this.
I think this makes for a better test.
That is a good point, the test in germany is definatly easier. But the one at the CAA i think is better for rl situations, you may be looking at landing lights and reading them wrongly. You may relise when you are on the ground but you do need to be able to distunguse the colours on your own without being told. It is a bit of a grey area and maybe im being too hard lined. See how i like it when i fail my class 1 on the grounds of colour defiancy. anyway good luck with your training, feel free to add me to ya buddy list and we can trade stories of avaiton bliss 
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Well, why not making a flight test, where the tested person has to prove that he is able to fly, there you can check if he can read PAPI lights, rotating airport beacons, runway lights, taxiway lights and navigation lights from other aircrafts...
Seems to be fair to me...
Seems to be fair to me...
well lol. its pretty rubbishy aint it really. I think i wll try and book a class 1 medical before christmas, i also want to do an apptitude test on Dec 2th i think the date is, so might try to get it done sooner. anyway ifu got any thoughts on the medical please drop me a pm.
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Mmmm
If you are an airliner pilot you almost do not fly visual approaches.
So no VASI or PAPI. thats something for PPL pilots use.
The big birds fly ILS, NDB and DME approaches. Check your instrument needles. etc. Not much visual and if I am flying the cessna I almost almost never use the PAPI/VASI.
You do a visual approach by aiming your aircraft a little bit under the rwy treshold. Keep 65 MPH and you'll be OK.
They test you because you need to distinguish the tower and the cockpit crt lights correctly.
some people have got problems to distinguish the colour magenta and thats a comon colour in the cockpit.
They say to people like us that the most of us can distinguish the colours correctly in a normall flight. But if something goes wrong and you need to act real fast and correctly. Most ''expert'' people say we have problems than to distinguish.
I know Its ****** up but at this moment we have got to deal with it.
Good luck to Ya'll
So no VASI or PAPI. thats something for PPL pilots use.
The big birds fly ILS, NDB and DME approaches. Check your instrument needles. etc. Not much visual and if I am flying the cessna I almost almost never use the PAPI/VASI.
You do a visual approach by aiming your aircraft a little bit under the rwy treshold. Keep 65 MPH and you'll be OK.
They test you because you need to distinguish the tower and the cockpit crt lights correctly.
some people have got problems to distinguish the colour magenta and thats a comon colour in the cockpit.
They say to people like us that the most of us can distinguish the colours correctly in a normall flight. But if something goes wrong and you need to act real fast and correctly. Most ''expert'' people say we have problems than to distinguish.
I know Its ****** up but at this moment we have got to deal with it.
Good luck to Ya'll
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?
hi,i was wondering if it is possible to cheat in the ishihara plate test.. it's not something i would do but i noticed that i am able to see most plate without problems,however,there is a couple where i cant see at all and there are some that i can see 1 or 1 1/2 number...
does anyone have this problem?
help needed, my medical for cadet pilot is very close..
does anyone have this problem?
help needed, my medical for cadet pilot is very close..
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Some people say it is possible to cheat, but in my opinion it is only possible under certain situations. First, there are couple hundred Ishihara plates on the market, most of them are identical, but still differ from each other.
Also, in my last medical, I did August 5th, the doctor opened the book somewhere in the middle and asked me what numbers I see and then turned to another page somewhere in the book. This book had no signs (numbers and letters to tell the doctor what number is correct) below the picture, like few do.
Well, I did those test quite often and no matter if I tried to cheat or not, I always failed, because a doctor can also tell by looking at you if you cheat or not. My mom is a doctor and a friend of her is also a doctor and both told me that.
If you're able to do a test like it is done in the USA, don't worry, it is possible to pass.
If you're only able to do test like we have them in Europe, your chance to pass is quite low...
LH_Pilot
Also, in my last medical, I did August 5th, the doctor opened the book somewhere in the middle and asked me what numbers I see and then turned to another page somewhere in the book. This book had no signs (numbers and letters to tell the doctor what number is correct) below the picture, like few do.
Well, I did those test quite often and no matter if I tried to cheat or not, I always failed, because a doctor can also tell by looking at you if you cheat or not. My mom is a doctor and a friend of her is also a doctor and both told me that.
If you're able to do a test like it is done in the USA, don't worry, it is possible to pass.
If you're only able to do test like we have them in Europe, your chance to pass is quite low...
LH_Pilot
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fortunately,i'm not doing it in europe,unfortunately,i'm not doing it in USA... i'm from malaysia,if i dont pass the ishihara test plate,is there another alternative test for me to still receive my class 1 medical?
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Well, if you don't pass in Malaysia, don't worry, you can still do your medical in other countries, I'm from Germany and I had to do mine in the USA. It doesn't matter to me if I fly a plane from the USA to Europe on the first trip or on the return trip.
All it matters is that I'm allowed to fly, if you think the same way, you'll find a country (most likley Australia or the USA) where you're allowed to fly if you don't pass.
What kind of tests are allowed in Malaysia may ve found on the malaysian aviation administration homepage.
In Europe it is called JAR-FCL 3, if I remeber it correct it is called apendix in the USA, but you'll always find the requirements online. It takes some time to do the research, but terefore you know exactly what's going on in the country where you're doing the medical. Most doctors don't even know most of the rules, in this case you can tell them where to find it.
LH_Pilot
All it matters is that I'm allowed to fly, if you think the same way, you'll find a country (most likley Australia or the USA) where you're allowed to fly if you don't pass.
What kind of tests are allowed in Malaysia may ve found on the malaysian aviation administration homepage.
In Europe it is called JAR-FCL 3, if I remeber it correct it is called apendix in the USA, but you'll always find the requirements online. It takes some time to do the research, but terefore you know exactly what's going on in the country where you're doing the medical. Most doctors don't even know most of the rules, in this case you can tell them where to find it.
LH_Pilot
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i passed!! i've got my class1 now and i'm going to be enrolled in flight school on Nov22. to my suprise,the check for color blindness was so simple! just a few plates, and it was just conducted by a nurse.. is it like this in US,europe?
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Hey,
been reading lots of your stories and congtatulations to those who have achieved their dream!! I am in the same position as a lot of you, taken the CAA test at LGW and failed that but don't know by how much, the miserable guy said i'd failed and couldn't do anything about it!
Am looking at maybe takin the medicals in USA but have herd there is some restrictions to type of aircraft/jobs you can fly. Can anyone shed some light on this or is it just people trying to stop me doing it??!!
Also those of you who have passed the 'tests' in the USA where did you have them done and what sort of prices did you have to pay?
Any information would be greatly appreciated that leads me to my dream!!
thanks guys,
Jamie
been reading lots of your stories and congtatulations to those who have achieved their dream!! I am in the same position as a lot of you, taken the CAA test at LGW and failed that but don't know by how much, the miserable guy said i'd failed and couldn't do anything about it!
Am looking at maybe takin the medicals in USA but have herd there is some restrictions to type of aircraft/jobs you can fly. Can anyone shed some light on this or is it just people trying to stop me doing it??!!
Also those of you who have passed the 'tests' in the USA where did you have them done and what sort of prices did you have to pay?
Any information would be greatly appreciated that leads me to my dream!!
thanks guys,
Jamie
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Hi all,
In case some of you hadn't noticed, there appears to be some interesting research into using gene therapy to cure colour blindness. Here is an article I found - there are plenty more: http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1031002361.html
Interesting times - let's just hope it doesn't take 5 years!
Rgds,
TPK
In case some of you hadn't noticed, there appears to be some interesting research into using gene therapy to cure colour blindness. Here is an article I found - there are plenty more: http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1031002361.html
Interesting times - let's just hope it doesn't take 5 years!
Rgds,
TPK
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i was just wondering, is there any airline pilots out there who is color blind? i'm worried coz i know i am slightly color blind (but i got my class1,SPL) i'm worried that i'll fail my medicals in the future..
When you live....
Latest situation
Hi all,
Sorry if I'm repeating what others have said earlier but my CAA JAR class 1 experience went like this (yesterday!).
After making 2 errors on the Ishihara (which I think I was given the opportunity to fix) we went to the Lantern test, which I also failed - possibly up to 4 times.
I was then given the opportunity to do the test again in the dark and was given 10 minutes to 'dark-adjust'. No problems thereafter (but a bloody nerve wracking 10 minutes sitting in the dark pondering the imminent demise of my not-yet-started aviation career!).
I asked the guy about it afterwards. Under JAR any mistakes on Ishihara require the lantern test - whereas in Oz I believe you're allowed a mistake or two (not certain on this - but I'm fairly sure I always make at least one mistake on the Ishishara).
He also said that colour blindness is NORMALLY congenetive and that once he'd checked that it wasn't related to a problem with my eyes (i.e. they were healthy) there would be no more testing without some kind of trigger reason. He did say that certain prescription medicines have the ability to affect colour perception and so reporting being on one of those would require a retest.
Hope this helps,
UTR.
Sorry if I'm repeating what others have said earlier but my CAA JAR class 1 experience went like this (yesterday!).
After making 2 errors on the Ishihara (which I think I was given the opportunity to fix) we went to the Lantern test, which I also failed - possibly up to 4 times.
I was then given the opportunity to do the test again in the dark and was given 10 minutes to 'dark-adjust'. No problems thereafter (but a bloody nerve wracking 10 minutes sitting in the dark pondering the imminent demise of my not-yet-started aviation career!).
I asked the guy about it afterwards. Under JAR any mistakes on Ishihara require the lantern test - whereas in Oz I believe you're allowed a mistake or two (not certain on this - but I'm fairly sure I always make at least one mistake on the Ishishara).
He also said that colour blindness is NORMALLY congenetive and that once he'd checked that it wasn't related to a problem with my eyes (i.e. they were healthy) there would be no more testing without some kind of trigger reason. He did say that certain prescription medicines have the ability to affect colour perception and so reporting being on one of those would require a retest.
Hope this helps,
UTR.