Hear hear! The voice of reason in a sea of squabbling. Good luck to you Mike Hotel. I for one would be pleased to hear of your experiences, and I am sure many would be interested in recruitment tips from you.

:ooh:......er, thanks...I aim to be constructive and helpful...:)

I am somewhat bemused. Why the hostility towards our friend Beak?

Surely this is a thread seeking to openly and frankly discuss ALL available options to fund a FR Type Rating. Beak has merely suggested that the Bank of M n D is the favorite 'Piggy Bank' to be raided. I reckon he is probably right!

I generally disagree with Beaks conclusions but value his well crafted posts. I can see sound reason in all his arguments and, taken individually, his points are wholly valid.

These threads are greatly enhanced by his participation and long may it be the case. I am not interested in ill informed, poorly articulated, one sided, debates.

Yes; I would openly encourage all FATPL's to join FR if the chance prevails but I recognise my position still requires scrutiny. More when we are discussing huge sums of money and absolutely no guarantees. I have never understood why FR have been unable to provide a 'fix' of days to BRK employees. This 'Fix' would remove much of the financial ambiguity and possibly make a bank loan easier to secure.

PS. Had to come up and 'Prattle'; my wife's watching that dreadful chap Gok Wan; Painful tv!:{

BN

BN as always, thank you.

Though I may not give you the answer as to how to 'get the money' what I have tried to do is tell you how NOT to get the money - in my opinion. Sure if your parents are very wealthy or they wish to give you your inheritance early then it is their choice how they spend their money - and how nice that they would choose to spend it on your future. I do however strongly disagree, disapprove and deplore people who secure £145Ks (taking into account the term) worth of debt against their parents £500K home. My parents too offered many times to secure the debt. They said it with a loving but worried look on their faces and sound to their voices. They seemed resigned to it. Their wasn't a chance I'd have done it to them though - and that was when aviation was at it's peak. I just don't understand it. My hope is that my words may have a positive effect on just one person and be the straw that makes them say no to the altruistic but dangerous offer from their parents. It isn't their choice, I don't know a parent that wouldn't make the offer. It is your choice to say no. Why can't you work for a year, save £15K and cut £25K off the risk in the loan? Boll:mad:ks to the fact you maybe earning 200000 Euros a year or however much you start on at Ryanair that enables you to pay back the TR loan in 5 months. Nothing worth it is ever easy and taking the loan on your parents home is a piece of piss......for you.


I have just seen your post too DB, thanks also pal.

Well prepare to be further saddened and frustrated I'm afraid. I'm barring nobody for saying that the RYR self sponsored type rating, followed by joining Brookfield after your work experience, is a rubbish deal which is the lead husky in the sleigh ride to **** creek which our profession is currently engaged upon.

The tax scam is coming to light. The new aircraft arrivals are unstoppable. The Brookfield contract is punitive. You're paying a lot of money to put yourself between a rock and Michael O Leary...


WWW

Seeing as you seem unable to use the scroll function of your browser, this is the original post:

This is not a thread on the rights and wrong of securing £145K of funding for training. It is not a thread debating Ryanair. This is merely a thread about the practicalities of funding a Ryanair Type Rating costing £30K.

WWW: PPrune is a great source of information and by encouraging the degeneration of this particular thread into a slanging match you're preventing this from happening and thereby undermining the value of the website. There are plenty of other threads where TheBeak and plenty of others have had their opportunity to debate the pros and cons of joining Ryanair.

WWW, I think you've missed the point from the post asking certain threads to be removed. TheBeak has been offensive and quite rude to more than one member of the forum.

I very rarely read the forum any more, mainly because of people like TheBeak. I can't see why people need to slate the industry and the people in it so much. After all, we all did our ATPL for a reason, because we either love the flying or the lifestyle. To have people so bitter and twisted on here all the time is quite frankly annoying and unnecessary. I know a few other pilots who have left the forum as the views on here are more than often extreme and unhelpful.

And yes, I did insult TheBeak. He sparked such an emotion from reading his posts and insults towards Torque Tonight just to mention one. We all know there a fakes on here, but TT isn’t one of them, so no need for the vindictive, belittling and insulting comments.

Also having just worked out who TheBeak is, he quite frankly isn’t worth bothering with and no wonder he is unemployed.
As far as Ryan Air is concerned. If I had the money and I was unemployed I'd go the same route. It is a good way to get the hours and it pays well if you know how to play the system. I'd much rather be working for Ryan Air than working 9-5 or in a fast food restaurant, or even as cabin crew for that matter (nothing wrong with cabin crew, but I didn’t pay best part of £60k to work in the back and take the crap that they have to on a daily basis.)

One question for the TheBeak, you have a 737 Type rating? Do you have any Line training hours with that? If not, then that was a wasted type rating. It's no use to any airline if you haven't done your LRC and ALC.

And for the token gesture towards the thread topic, sorry I don’t know how to approach the banks, but I'm sure a thoroughly researched business plan wouldn't be a bad starting point.

Everyone knows what they are getting themselves into when they go to Ryan Air, so you pay your money you take your choice. However I know a few people that have made a very good career out of it and are very happy with the way they work. People could do a lot worse.

Just passing (not much happening in Bizjets, we're generally better behaved over there ;)) and spotted this thread.


Where does BN say he's amused by this? I can't find it. Post number?


But surely 'they' know because people tell them in places like this? Surely you're not advocating pro-Ryanair posts only be allowed? Pro-anything come to that. Within the bounds of reason I'm happy that the (we) moderators let these threads run the way they do.

I've been around PPRuNe a while and I'm constantly surprised by people who complain about censorship. "Free speech!" they cry. Yet when they get it we're castigated. We can't win.

Duck Rogers.

If you read the comment I made, it was made about abusive and personal comments about individuals, not about RYR.

So no, I don't want you to sensor anti RYR and allow only pro RYR, I'm just sick of the sick bitter and twisted people on here.

And in response to your comment about people find out about RYR on this forum. I disagree, I haven't read this forum for quite a few months and still hear the stories good and bad from friends and old course mates and other forums such as OAA.

I'm not sure what's happened to PPRUNE, but it certainly has gone down hill in the last 3 years. Diss-information seems to be the norm and slagging off any wannabe is a common scene.

I'm not sure if its a sign of the times, but PPRUNE is certainly worse off because of the "haters". Of course we need both sides of the story, but surely to tell the story you must have first experienced the event and not heard about it from your mates uncle who's boss told him a tale.

Dick,

I am genuinely saddened by my 'thumbs down' head-line. :=

I cannot see that 'Beak' has done anything but elucidate within the thread subject. He has set out an erodite, concise and reasoned arguement.

I disagree with 'Beak', but debate needs to be open, honest and lively to hold my interest. Why would anyone want to 'dilute' these important discussions? I certainly have not been offended, even though Beaks expressed views are not well aligned with my own.

I would understand ( read ), that you might have done some FR funding yourself for a child? I WOULD DO EXACTLY THE SAME.

Beak already answered the question = Mum and Dad!

My view = Until a 'Fix' of minimum days, (analogous with a private owner Biz Jet), is contracted this is likely to remain the preferred option.

BN

Good evening Duck,

Yes, we are better behaved in our Biz Jet world.

Perhaps 'Beak' would be sensible to review his future career path?

BN

Here is some advice;

Do what you think you have to, no-one is going to help you. Life is short.
If you can get mum and dad to help (pay) in any way then do so, you will only have a few chances to fly professionally and you must take your seldom opportunities where-ever they may be.

Don't linger on the words of the older generation with regards to declining conditions/punitive contracts etc because many are not in the position you are (myself included).

Get on with you life and do not dwell on the negative side of things, it will only drag you down.

Work hard and make you own luck.

For the record, my parents paid for my FATPL and I would do the same.

TheBeak, come on matey stop being unkind, it does no good what-so-ever, we all know the good and bad side to this particular subject. You come across as a whiney little bitch.

One of the points you made was about that. I read your post, decided the night wasn't long enough to take up every issue and chose one. I say again that people know because they read it here. Ok, some people. A lot of people. Granted PPRuNe isn't the only source in the aviation world but it's still a major one. Seen the numbers for this place?

The world would be a dull place if first hand knowledge were a pre-requisite for many things. If that became law and the Walts and theorists were driven out PPRuNe would become a ghost town overnight. Didn't you say that Ryanair are well known for their practices? That you and your friends know of them through other means? Well so do The Beak and others yet seemingly you want him and his ilk to be prevented from passing on what they've heard.

Censorship? Aye, but which way round?



<wanders back toward the leather upholstered, silk carpeted bizjet forum>

This discussion seems to have degenerated into something so utterly ridiculous it could almost send somesome insane. At first it starts with someone wanting to productively find out about the funding for a Ryanair TR (valid question), which was spolit by someone who we all know probably resembles not far off a social hand grenade, who has now all of a sudden become flavour of the week with a couple of moderators who are beginning a debate that Ryanair's reputaion is NOT in fact based on first hand experiences but instead by chinese whispers!! This thread's sending more than a few of you away with a one way ticket to the loony hospital, give it up. And to quote P-T...
"I'm not sure what's happened to PPRUNE, but it certainly has gone down hill in the last 3 years".
Got that right :ok:

P-T, you again, do not know who I am , so don't say things like that to add weight to your argument - we had this with Reluctant737 or whatever his/her name was. And no I absolutely did not buy a 737 TR and have no hours on it. I did not buy a 737 TR full stop, I can assure you. Can you not work that out?

If you don't like PPRUNE then don't add to it. It takes two to add to this debate - at least my posts have been on track and not about slating an individual that you don't know much about. You lot are very much responsible for the divergence of this thread.

I'd take bizjets in a heartbeat.

No worries, points taken I am defeated. I'm obvioulsy not intelligent for TheBeak and I am not worthy of even knowing you it seems.

No worries, I'll leave you to it. For the record, I totally agree with Eager Beaver.

On that note I'm of to SSH for the weekend on the wonderful Boeing 757.

X

Dick,

I believe that we are possibly 'lost' in translation.

I would understand that 'Beak' is trying to clarify that he did not purchase a 737 TR with a Line Hours Package.

Further, he is being clear that he did not purchase a 737 TR FULL STOP.

I would understand that, he was selected for a paid / bonded 737 TR with an airline, made it on line, and then sadly was laid off. Very frustrating!

I really cannot understand this animosity to 'Beak'. Unlike the many, his credability is not in question. It would appear that the ubiquitous truth about 'the bank of Mum n Dad' gets some 'noses out of joint'. I just can't understand why?

Had the situation been different, I would have been the first to cash 'Dads' cheque! ( Sadly in my case, it would have bounced! )

BN

Let’s get this straight. I am most certainly not against free speech and I’m perfectly open to debates on Ryanair. I have agreed that TheBeak’s views on Ryanair and, for example, WWW’s opinions about the state of the economy are worth listening to even though they don’t match my own opinions or experiences. Furthermore, even though some people have an abrasive, unkind or deliberately unhelpful attitude I wouldn’t disregard their right to be heard.

This is not about free speech; It’s all about time and place! On a thread started by a Wannabe asking about the virtues of joining Ryanair, let slip the dogs of war and let the debate rage because someone contemplating joining a controversial company ought to hear both sides of the argument, but where someone asks a clear cut, closed loop question, why do we have to see the whole thread become a 5 page argument between the Ryanair haters and those who have a different point of view?

I cling to my view that the Moderators are not doing their job in this instance. There’s nothing ‘moderate’ about their behaviour. Contrast the moderator’s action on this thread with the thread on Integrated v Modular which recently closed by Halfwayback.

There's nothing moderate about me changing paragraphs of yours pink but then this is a benign dictatorship so best just get over it.


WWW

To be fair, pink is my favourite colour right now. :ok: