Fixedgear

What school do you work for Mr troll?

Contact Approach

Not sure what your issue is in general but a salary is a fixed regular payment, typically paid on a monthly basis, made by an employer to an employee (from Oxford vocabulary)

Hi,

Does anyone know if there are "chart" questions (performance tables, m&b, etc) in the ATPL test of the online preassesment? With 10 minutes I guess it's quite hard if there are charts to be considered.

BoeingLudo737

So who is the employer as written in the contract?

Contact Approach


You’re like a dog with a bone, give it a rest with the contract/employee stuff. I’m sure everyone intending to sign up to this knows the risks involved.

Ryanair have every intention of taking on cadets after completion of the TR program as they are planning for the increase in demand for next year, if they had no intention of taking you on they would have started recruiting 6 months ago.
Obviously if for some reason things are still like they are now that would be a different story.

It will be done how it used to be done, where you get a training contract during line training, with a low basic plus low BH pay.

I am not sure you realize how many thousand of fully qualified ryr pilots right now are sitting on the ground flying 2/3 days a month at best while on government support, and how many are at almost zero salary on those amazing self employed contracts.
If you think in 1/2 years they will expand so much to need more pilots than they had in 2019, you are a tad delusional.

Has anyone been for assessment this week or recently and if so have you got any feedback on questions they’ve asked and the sim assessment? Thanks in advance

dirk85

I fully agree with you and I'm well aware of the current situation, but what about the upcoming 55 B737MAX to join the fleet in summer 2021 ? and the other 155 to come ?

This program has been established for summer 2022 not for now. We all know that this is a holding pool and that there is a risk of still being unemployed with our B737 TR... but we could expect something positive if we take into account this B737MAX order + upcoming EASA approval + vaccine... what do you think ?

Dashcam

The dog with a bone is trying to warn those risking great sums of money what dirk has just said. Put some perspective on what this really is: they've binned off the bond and increased what was a 5k TR to 30k overnight. Without an offer of employment contract it's nothing more than an expensive TR given the dire state of the industry right now. The majority of those who fly for RYR and their subsidiaries are currently working as delivery drivers...

Those who accept these terms just fuel the race to the bottom. It's been happening for years and it's only getting worse. People are paying upwards of 100k for licences, 30k for type ratings all in the hope it might come good and they'll be offered some sort of contractor contract with little to no job security. Perspective is needed and people need to stop accepting what effectively is below minimum wage conditions for flying commercial airliners. Why will ryr keep you when they can just bin you off and take the next customer willing to pay them to work?

Mikith

You're willing to pay 30K to fly an aircraft for a few months that's been plagued with problems, has been grounded for the past two years, is not yet certified to fly again in Europe during a worldwide pandemic thats worsening by the day?

Wise, very wise.

Honestly guys the lack of self worth and foresight is extremely troubling.

Contact Approach

Just to add to this...

It does seem very much like they are really taking advantage of peoples desperation especially during the pandemic of wanting to get that first job.

They are targeting naive individuals who finished training in the last 12/18 months who desperately want that job.

It doesn’t help that certain APS providers also peddle this rubbish to their students in order to get their recruitment numbers up so they can sell a load of half truths to the next lot of recruits.

When it was €5000 or even €10,000 you would argue that the risk was equal to both parties which is how it should be.

Now at €30,000 the risk is wholly on the cadet which IMO doesn’t differentiate it from an MPL. The only time I would say it’s almost acceptable to part with that level of money is if there was a solid job offer at the end and monetary protection in place should there not be.

Mikith

Most of those planes will replace the current fleet, depending obviously on the recovery, but I would be surprised if for summer 2022 they will have the same number of planes in the air they had in summer 2019, before this whole mess started.

Contact Approach dirk85 I didn't say that I'm willing to pay the 30k€ I'm just trying to shed a positive light on this holding pool approach (if there is any)
We are often thinking about the current situation but not thinking enough about the past and the future.
The past : RYR used to make candidates pay 30k€ for the TR. That's a fact and I know many pilots who paid and are captain for RYR now
The future : nobody knows for sure. Best case scenario : we get a contract for line training, do some hours (very few I think) keep current until it recovers, it recovers and we finally get a F/O contract.
Worst case scenario : we obtain our Type Rating with AFA and never hear back from RYR.
But in my opinion it's worth trying the assessments and discuss it during the interview and dot the i's and cross the t's.

All I am doing is cutting through the BS you will be fed by RYR. People have to know the full story and that is what im getting at, You are correct in your thinking and it’s a good approach to have. Without doubt its a risk and it’s up to you if it’s worth that risk.

Good luck.

I suppose, the assessments are 400 EUR though (not including accomodation and travel), that's a lot to cross some Ts and dot some Is, especially since we already know from AFA there isn't any employment contract until the end, with no guarantee ("subject to business needs").

Mikith

Looking at this logically, €400 to ask a few questions is madness. Being prepared to spend €30k on a maybe is insane. A type rating with zero hours is worthless. Not forgetting you will have to find a sim a partner and TRE to keep it current say €2000 minimum every 12 months. I would be very careful at the moment, the Ryanair group have most of their crews on unpaid leave. Still it's your money.
I think you will find any job offer will be as a contractor with Buzz, or Malta Air, not salaries, but again it's your life

Well whether everyone wnats to like it or not, this is the hard trueth basically... Would be funny paying 30k and meanwhile a job comes up where the type is deducted from salary or covered while you waiting in that hold pool down 30k!

polskiland

But if that job won't come up? Let's be honest, with so many rated pilots in the streets, for a cadet the only way to get a start are Ryanair, Volotea and Wizz. And it will be like this for at least a few years.

HotelAlpha1

Im sorry but you’re not getting the point.

One day once you’ve been flying for a while.... made redundant in the next crisis and see the airline recruiting a cheaper less experienced version of you who is happy to pay double what you did to get in, you’ll wonder how on Earth the industry got to this and then maybe you’ll finally get what the problem is and why so many fight to prevent these schemes.

HotelAlpha1

What we are trying to say is that even if 2022 is going to be like 2019, which won't happen, Ryanair has already enough pilots NOW, furloughed, on unpaid leave, or at zero hours, to cover that, which makes many people think this is just a move to keep all these training organizations running and making profits.