Why is 200 hrs better than 1500 for a jet job?
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I tend to agree with WWW on this as well.
Having been partially on the inside of recruiting, (not pilots). I saw how random it can be. A pile of CV's is simply something to get through and is often narrowed down so arbitrarily that it's shocking.
Remember too one of David Brent's rules of business. 'Never hire anyone unlucky. Throw half the pile of CV's in the bin without looking at them.' Never was a truer word spoken.
I would add one other thing, get your CV looked at by someone in the know if possible. Sometimes there is something there that puts people off that you cannot see but jumps out at them. Yes something as trivial as that.
Having been partially on the inside of recruiting, (not pilots). I saw how random it can be. A pile of CV's is simply something to get through and is often narrowed down so arbitrarily that it's shocking.
Remember too one of David Brent's rules of business. 'Never hire anyone unlucky. Throw half the pile of CV's in the bin without looking at them.' Never was a truer word spoken.
I would add one other thing, get your CV looked at by someone in the know if possible. Sometimes there is something there that puts people off that you cannot see but jumps out at them. Yes something as trivial as that.
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Speaking as someone who was once an instructor and is now lucky enough to be sitting left seat 737. I must say that some of the low houred First Officers I fly with are very good .
However on a Sh****y night with a wet runway I feel a lot happier with an ex flying instructor sat next to me because I know he will at least have some semblence of an idea about cross wind landings.
However on a Sh****y night with a wet runway I feel a lot happier with an ex flying instructor sat next to me because I know he will at least have some semblence of an idea about cross wind landings.
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I fly airbus for a Big uk cArrier and can assure you from experience of line flying with numerous new FOs that 200 hrs can be better than 1500 (or more!) . My employer does generally seem to know it's onions re selection and recruitment. The individual's ability is what counts. Experience is soon gained once qualified.
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I just thought it would be novel to ask another question...
I'm 17, 18 in May should have my ATPL tickets this time next year (almost 19 years old). I will have around 250hrs flying experience and an (f) ATPL.
I've asked this many times before, and almost always got positive response (almost I say because the careers teacher at school thought he knew what he was on about "you need a levels, a degree" blah blah)....but, do you think I would be attractive to say a charter airline? (or any airline really!)
I know I'm young at heart, but I've been told that due to my age the airlines will be attracted to me because of this, as they can potentially "use" me for a lot longer, and value me a lot more than say a 25year old (i.e 6 years less potential 'use')?
I only have 10 GCSE's and 3 AS levels (disconitnued college and burned the academic bridges to persue my sole career intention). I have a few other 'rewarding' achievements in the bag such as winner of royal institute of nav compeition, and john todd memorial prize winner etc. Oh, been on TV aswell for my 'achievements' but that's media....barely wroth anything to an airline!?
I'm just looking for a few more opinions in the sack to keep upto date with the changing fashion in recruitment! Many thanks to any comments.
cheers
obk
I'm 17, 18 in May should have my ATPL tickets this time next year (almost 19 years old). I will have around 250hrs flying experience and an (f) ATPL.
I've asked this many times before, and almost always got positive response (almost I say because the careers teacher at school thought he knew what he was on about "you need a levels, a degree" blah blah)....but, do you think I would be attractive to say a charter airline? (or any airline really!)
I know I'm young at heart, but I've been told that due to my age the airlines will be attracted to me because of this, as they can potentially "use" me for a lot longer, and value me a lot more than say a 25year old (i.e 6 years less potential 'use')?
I only have 10 GCSE's and 3 AS levels (disconitnued college and burned the academic bridges to persue my sole career intention). I have a few other 'rewarding' achievements in the bag such as winner of royal institute of nav compeition, and john todd memorial prize winner etc. Oh, been on TV aswell for my 'achievements' but that's media....barely wroth anything to an airline!?
I'm just looking for a few more opinions in the sack to keep upto date with the changing fashion in recruitment! Many thanks to any comments.
cheers
obk
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The market dictates the parameters.
High unemployment=higher the requirements.
200 hr guy vs 1500 hr is a topic for individuals to slag each other off and make one feel better about themselves.
Stop this and other ridicilous posts like this one.
Do any of you actually work in recruitment? Or are you all just guesssing at what goes on?
I wrote to a operator last year, one of about 300 others and received the standard'' we only take on type rated guys ,1500 hrs jet minimum''.Guess what? I was called in Feb to attend a selection process.Two weeks later followed the sim and interview.
Got the contract in the mail couple of days ago.
There were both 200 hrs up to 1500 hrs guys/gals.
It all depends on the individual in question as both sides have faults.
High unemployment=higher the requirements.
200 hr guy vs 1500 hr is a topic for individuals to slag each other off and make one feel better about themselves.
Stop this and other ridicilous posts like this one.
Do any of you actually work in recruitment? Or are you all just guesssing at what goes on?
I wrote to a operator last year, one of about 300 others and received the standard'' we only take on type rated guys ,1500 hrs jet minimum''.Guess what? I was called in Feb to attend a selection process.Two weeks later followed the sim and interview.
Got the contract in the mail couple of days ago.
There were both 200 hrs up to 1500 hrs guys/gals.
It all depends on the individual in question as both sides have faults.
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Sir Donald
So the moral is to just apply whatever the minimum requirements are? I was thinking of doing this anyway but something told me it wouldn't work as there are so many applications to deal with anyway, why would mine, which wouldn't meet minimums get picked?!
Ah well, now I know there's living proof!
So the moral is to just apply whatever the minimum requirements are? I was thinking of doing this anyway but something told me it wouldn't work as there are so many applications to deal with anyway, why would mine, which wouldn't meet minimums get picked?!
Ah well, now I know there's living proof!
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In the vast majority of cases, speculative CVs that do not demonstrate the required experience will be binned without ceremony. However, just occasionally a speculative CV arrives just as an airline is revising its qualification requirements downwards. The person who wrote that CV is just very lucky if they then get picked up!
You are wasting your time arguing the pros and cons of 200 versus 1500 hours. Once you are qualified, you must maintain your licence; that requires you to continue to accumulate hours. The rate at which you accumulate hours largely depends on your wallet and your opportunities, but accumulate them you will. One day, you will find you've got 1500 hours. But are they any use?
As far as I am concerned (and I have had something to do with both airline and RAF recruiting), hours accumulated in a C150 pottering around the countryside by yourself on sunny Sunday afternoons are pretty much useless. Instructional hours carry a great deal more weight, but only up to a point. Beyond 1500 to 2000 hours you may have become too indoctrinated in the ways of instruction and small-aircraft flying to easily adapt to airline flying within the high-intensity limited hours available to convert you. That is why BA (when they are recruiting - which they are not) and others look for very low-hour pilots: it minimises the risk of failure in (very expensive) training, and allows the airline to mould you in its image at the earliest opportunity, and with the least effort and expense. The same applies to the RAF - which often employs people with no flying hours at all!
Other airlines, or GA employers, are more flexible in their experience demands. Some, like mine, will not even look at you unless you have a few thousand hours of jet experience, either military or civil. Your task is simply(!) to target your CVs at those airlines and operators who will, or might, accept the experience level you posess.
Scroggs
You are wasting your time arguing the pros and cons of 200 versus 1500 hours. Once you are qualified, you must maintain your licence; that requires you to continue to accumulate hours. The rate at which you accumulate hours largely depends on your wallet and your opportunities, but accumulate them you will. One day, you will find you've got 1500 hours. But are they any use?
As far as I am concerned (and I have had something to do with both airline and RAF recruiting), hours accumulated in a C150 pottering around the countryside by yourself on sunny Sunday afternoons are pretty much useless. Instructional hours carry a great deal more weight, but only up to a point. Beyond 1500 to 2000 hours you may have become too indoctrinated in the ways of instruction and small-aircraft flying to easily adapt to airline flying within the high-intensity limited hours available to convert you. That is why BA (when they are recruiting - which they are not) and others look for very low-hour pilots: it minimises the risk of failure in (very expensive) training, and allows the airline to mould you in its image at the earliest opportunity, and with the least effort and expense. The same applies to the RAF - which often employs people with no flying hours at all!
Other airlines, or GA employers, are more flexible in their experience demands. Some, like mine, will not even look at you unless you have a few thousand hours of jet experience, either military or civil. Your task is simply(!) to target your CVs at those airlines and operators who will, or might, accept the experience level you posess.
Scroggs
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OBK, not at all, i am saying is just sit on your backside hoping somebody will call you instead!(and moan who is better on pprune)It got me the job, with no speculation.
Scrogs, regarding BA, 200hrs ''TOO MANY BAD HABBITS'' is the excuse. On the other hand why do 200 hrs guys make fine FO'S with others? CTC ATP scheme demonstrates just that. For the right person there is no stopping, appart from the bureaucracy. It all depends on the operator.BA Cadets are preferred with max of 10 hrs, so they can be blinkered rather than moulded, as any body with a license should be given a fair opportunity to demonstrate their ability, not just to be branded C...P because of their hard work to realise a dream.
At the end of the day when there is a shortage, all of HR bulls...t goes out the window as we know.
A good example is the second world war pilot with no legs that proved to be the cream of the crop.
Scrogs, regarding BA, 200hrs ''TOO MANY BAD HABBITS'' is the excuse. On the other hand why do 200 hrs guys make fine FO'S with others? CTC ATP scheme demonstrates just that. For the right person there is no stopping, appart from the bureaucracy. It all depends on the operator.BA Cadets are preferred with max of 10 hrs, so they can be blinkered rather than moulded, as any body with a license should be given a fair opportunity to demonstrate their ability, not just to be branded C...P because of their hard work to realise a dream.
At the end of the day when there is a shortage, all of HR bulls...t goes out the window as we know.
A good example is the second world war pilot with no legs that proved to be the cream of the crop.
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Don't focus only on jet operators. There are some turboprop operators that seem to prefer those pilots with an instructional background.
I learned more during my FI course than I did during the CPL or indeed the IR and I would recommend it to anyone, who may be thinking of embarking on getting the rating.
On a interesting note for descent planning in light aircraft. If I am at FL70 for example then if I screw up a descent I might not have ATC on my back but I could well have passenger(s) with sore ears complaining... Ouch! Just as much thought and planning is required when you do not have a pressurization system to fall back on! I have not had any complaints about my descent planning... yet
!
I learned more during my FI course than I did during the CPL or indeed the IR and I would recommend it to anyone, who may be thinking of embarking on getting the rating.
On a interesting note for descent planning in light aircraft. If I am at FL70 for example then if I screw up a descent I might not have ATC on my back but I could well have passenger(s) with sore ears complaining... Ouch! Just as much thought and planning is required when you do not have a pressurization system to fall back on! I have not had any complaints about my descent planning... yet
!
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hello fox,
I am new to this web site and I am a new commercial pilot with 200h and 50 hours IFR.I have sent one resume and I have received a call from a big airline asking me to fly for them. So what's the hell are you talking about, it's plenty of jobs there.My school?: the one who promess me to have a job right after I finish, and they were damn right because now I am a first officer on the A340. My pay? 32000 pounds/year.Next year I will move on the B777 because my boss told me I am a good guy.
what do I do in the plane? a lot: I flip up and down the gear level, I read some checklists, and I press enter on the FMS after the captain have entered important datas in the computer.Maybe it sounds a little to you, but when you have a cup of tea and you have to talk about you vacation to the flight attendants, believe me, it's not an easy task.
So guys, do not go fly to many hours, because airlines are looking for pilots like me.Less you have, better it is. I am even thinking to throw away my logboog or to write 0 hours inside. I do not know even why I went to an elementary school. I mean a retarded have more chance to fly a jet than an experienced flight instructor. I regret one thing in my carieer, it's to have let a flight instructor to teach me how to refuel a plane, bacause now, someone is doing it for me(hihi!!).Last time, I remember I gave the instruction to refuel 10'000 gallons, as I am a novice on the A340, I told to the guy 10'000 litrers instead, and we finished with 2 engines cutoff and by chance we glided to Luton(hihi!!!).When back on the ground, my boss told me I am going to fly the B777 because this aircraft is equiped with a system to avoid such mistake.
As you can see, better to have less than more (hihi!!)
I am new to this web site and I am a new commercial pilot with 200h and 50 hours IFR.I have sent one resume and I have received a call from a big airline asking me to fly for them. So what's the hell are you talking about, it's plenty of jobs there.My school?: the one who promess me to have a job right after I finish, and they were damn right because now I am a first officer on the A340. My pay? 32000 pounds/year.Next year I will move on the B777 because my boss told me I am a good guy.
what do I do in the plane? a lot: I flip up and down the gear level, I read some checklists, and I press enter on the FMS after the captain have entered important datas in the computer.Maybe it sounds a little to you, but when you have a cup of tea and you have to talk about you vacation to the flight attendants, believe me, it's not an easy task.
So guys, do not go fly to many hours, because airlines are looking for pilots like me.Less you have, better it is. I am even thinking to throw away my logboog or to write 0 hours inside. I do not know even why I went to an elementary school. I mean a retarded have more chance to fly a jet than an experienced flight instructor. I regret one thing in my carieer, it's to have let a flight instructor to teach me how to refuel a plane, bacause now, someone is doing it for me(hihi!!).Last time, I remember I gave the instruction to refuel 10'000 gallons, as I am a novice on the A340, I told to the guy 10'000 litrers instead, and we finished with 2 engines cutoff and by chance we glided to Luton(hihi!!!).When back on the ground, my boss told me I am going to fly the B777 because this aircraft is equiped with a system to avoid such mistake.
As you can see, better to have less than more (hihi!!)
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Hmmm **suspicous**, tell me this is a joke?
Forgive me but the only airline I can think of with 777's and A340's is Cathay....now I know everyone in that airline starts off as a second officer....and your an FO.
Which airline do you fly for? Please tell me so I can avoid it. It might be a 'non-jeopordy' (sp?) airline, but somehow I don't think you can put the wrong amount of mr fuel into mr tank and get away with (I don't know how you can do that in the first place without knowing....hmm).
Everyone will grin at me when I say this but how did you pass verbal reasoning test with your grammar? (ooohhhh, handbags!)
Forgive me but the only airline I can think of with 777's and A340's is Cathay....now I know everyone in that airline starts off as a second officer....and your an FO.
Which airline do you fly for? Please tell me so I can avoid it. It might be a 'non-jeopordy' (sp?) airline, but somehow I don't think you can put the wrong amount of mr fuel into mr tank and get away with (I don't know how you can do that in the first place without knowing....hmm).
Everyone will grin at me when I say this but how did you pass verbal reasoning test with your grammar? (ooohhhh, handbags!)
Last edited by OBK!; 2nd May 2003 at 22:21.
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Well this has become a lively topic, have I hit a nerve here?
It seems to me that everbody has an opinion on instructors more than anything, actually not the point of the thread but there 'ya go.
As far as I'm concerned you can have an opinion on instructing if you are a Qualified Flying Instructor or have experience of professional instructing in some other way, otherwise you are not qualified to comment.
However...............
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are Flying Instructors not fully quallified commercial pilot's? I know I am, I only lack a type rating and the oportunity.
This thread was intended to ask a serious question about recruiting, not invite the usual instructor knocking comments from those who may have not had to, did not want to, or were not capable of instructing.
In exactly what ways am I being indoctrinated by the way?
Serious question there, I'd like to invite any thoughts?
Also, why is it that those who feel the need to post the negative instructor comments i.e. the sad minority of the the otherwise generally decent "shiny jet frat",
also feel the need to load the posts with "drilling holes in the sky at 3000ft" or "pottering around the countryside by yourself on sunny Sunday afternoons are pretty much useless" type remarks with the intent to insult? Lets face it, neither job is actually hard is it and the "My joystick is bigger than your joystick" rhetoric is geting a little tired.
You jet chapies are really letting yourselves down and you are also showing a lack of understanding.
Now off you go and press another button on your MCP...............
Sorry, couldn't resist that, I think I read somewhere that a jet has an MCP thingy, whatever that is...............
Go on I dare 'ya......................
Above comments are aimed only at the sad few, not the entire industry.............................
It seems to me that everbody has an opinion on instructors more than anything, actually not the point of the thread but there 'ya go.
As far as I'm concerned you can have an opinion on instructing if you are a Qualified Flying Instructor or have experience of professional instructing in some other way, otherwise you are not qualified to comment.
However...............
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are Flying Instructors not fully quallified commercial pilot's? I know I am, I only lack a type rating and the oportunity.
This thread was intended to ask a serious question about recruiting, not invite the usual instructor knocking comments from those who may have not had to, did not want to, or were not capable of instructing.
In exactly what ways am I being indoctrinated by the way?
Serious question there, I'd like to invite any thoughts?
Also, why is it that those who feel the need to post the negative instructor comments i.e. the sad minority of the the otherwise generally decent "shiny jet frat",
also feel the need to load the posts with "drilling holes in the sky at 3000ft" or "pottering around the countryside by yourself on sunny Sunday afternoons are pretty much useless" type remarks with the intent to insult? Lets face it, neither job is actually hard is it and the "My joystick is bigger than your joystick" rhetoric is geting a little tired.
You jet chapies are really letting yourselves down and you are also showing a lack of understanding.
Now off you go and press another button on your MCP...............
Sorry, couldn't resist that, I think I read somewhere that a jet has an MCP thingy, whatever that is...............
Go on I dare 'ya......................
Above comments are aimed only at the sad few, not the entire industry.............................
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Is there anyone out there involved with recruitment that can give an opinion or view on the policy regarding instructors?
One of our CPL / IR students knows of someone in a well known company. He was told to get some experinence, freight, taxi, radio operator etc in fact anything BUT instructing .
So whats that all about ???
regards one very desperate instructor
One of our CPL / IR students knows of someone in a well known company. He was told to get some experinence, freight, taxi, radio operator etc in fact anything BUT instructing .
So whats that all about ???
regards one very desperate instructor
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Hello,
yes, I am flying a B777 for an asian company, and I have been trained directly as a first officer, because I do not have the experience to be a second officer. They told me they will train me to be a captain in 6 months, because noone want take the responsabily when I am on board. Like this, if I do a mistake, I will be fully responsible for my acts.But I do not care, I know there are plenty of guys waiting for my place, but you see, these guys have to many hours to fly a B777 so I am not worried that somebody take my job.
the only real problem I have, I am dislexic and I have some problems to read my instruments. I confuse the altitude with airspeed but it s not my fault ! I am a good guy, little bit stupid with a low intellectual coefficient, but fly a plane has always been my dream, and now I realise it.I am so happy!and I would like say thank you to my parents, who always have been with me , particulary to my dad who beat me a lot on my head to make me more smart. It helped me to be a pilot.I guess my mother has something to do in my success, she smokes a lot, I do not know exactly what she put in her cigarette but in the room of our living room, there is no carpet .Do you think she is smoking the carpets?I would not be surprised,bacause my dad is in jail and has no money left for us, and it's why my airline has hired me, because without their help, I would have been a politician or an architect, but my dream has always been to sit in a nice cockpit.
the last thing I would like to say if you want fly for an airline: be smart like me!
yes, I am flying a B777 for an asian company, and I have been trained directly as a first officer, because I do not have the experience to be a second officer. They told me they will train me to be a captain in 6 months, because noone want take the responsabily when I am on board. Like this, if I do a mistake, I will be fully responsible for my acts.But I do not care, I know there are plenty of guys waiting for my place, but you see, these guys have to many hours to fly a B777 so I am not worried that somebody take my job.
the only real problem I have, I am dislexic and I have some problems to read my instruments. I confuse the altitude with airspeed but it s not my fault ! I am a good guy, little bit stupid with a low intellectual coefficient, but fly a plane has always been my dream, and now I realise it.I am so happy!and I would like say thank you to my parents, who always have been with me , particulary to my dad who beat me a lot on my head to make me more smart. It helped me to be a pilot.I guess my mother has something to do in my success, she smokes a lot, I do not know exactly what she put in her cigarette but in the room of our living room, there is no carpet .Do you think she is smoking the carpets?I would not be surprised,bacause my dad is in jail and has no money left for us, and it's why my airline has hired me, because without their help, I would have been a politician or an architect, but my dream has always been to sit in a nice cockpit.
the last thing I would like to say if you want fly for an airline: be smart like me!
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Quick question.
On the Ryanair scheme.
Does anyone know if Ryanair help with arrangements for a loan for the type rating in the same way that Easyjet does?
Also do you get paid while doing the type rating?
What do they ask you to do on the sim check?
Any other info welcome.......................
On the Ryanair scheme.
Does anyone know if Ryanair help with arrangements for a loan for the type rating in the same way that Easyjet does?
Also do you get paid while doing the type rating?
What do they ask you to do on the sim check?
Any other info welcome.......................