CTC McAlpine/easyJet/JMC Sponsorship Selection
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Supafly,
I don't think the EJ TRSS scheme is really an alternative to the ATP scheme for low hours pilots with just the basic license. Although the published miniumum time for TRSS is 500hrs, the TRSS is aimed at guys and gals with turbo-prop experience - the lowest experience level I have heard of getting onto that scheme is multi-piston IFR air taxi type experience - but I'll happily stand corrected if anyone knows of 500hr single-piston fATPLs being accepted (without some personal connection anyway).
I don't think the EJ TRSS scheme is really an alternative to the ATP scheme for low hours pilots with just the basic license. Although the published miniumum time for TRSS is 500hrs, the TRSS is aimed at guys and gals with turbo-prop experience - the lowest experience level I have heard of getting onto that scheme is multi-piston IFR air taxi type experience - but I'll happily stand corrected if anyone knows of 500hr single-piston fATPLs being accepted (without some personal connection anyway).
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My feelings exactly SupaFly - there are 31 people in the hold pool and I can't see all being placed before summer '04. That leaves those applying now a very long wait if successful.
As you say - there's no harm in going for the first 3 stages of selection and reviewing the situation then
As you say - there's no harm in going for the first 3 stages of selection and reviewing the situation then
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If you get in the hold pool it is an option at some point in the future. If another airline offers you direct entry in the meantime then great, if they don't at least you have one more option than those who don't make it into the hold pool.........
PP
PP
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Pilot Pete - true, but it does cost the applicant 7 grand to get from the last stage to the hold pool so not a trivial investment. Earlier stages cost nothing but petrol and a new tie so certainly good value for money. I guess it depends on how lucky someone feels, and how much money they have to spend. A flight instructing rating and a possible job or CTC and not being able to afford to fly for a year, then risk messing up the interview when it finally comes. No easy choices in this game.
buttline - agree that TRSS guys don't directly compare with low hours CTC guys, it could be argued that TRSS guys are better and cheaper (higher risk to the airline, though) therefore if EJ can fill their requirements that way it may slow down other recruitment. I have no inside knowledge, just speculating.
buttline - agree that TRSS guys don't directly compare with low hours CTC guys, it could be argued that TRSS guys are better and cheaper (higher risk to the airline, though) therefore if EJ can fill their requirements that way it may slow down other recruitment. I have no inside knowledge, just speculating.
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PP et al
Supposing you are lucky enough to get through all this, costing you 7 grand or whatever, are you still going to be had for a lengthy bond, and much reduced salary?
Assuming the airline pick up the TR cost 100% (is that correct anybody), I suspect this means that the pilot who initially works for nothing for 6 months would then start on a 2/3rds salary or something a la Easyjet TRSS? Or is the 6 months work for nothing deemed payment for the TR?
Anybody who has done the scheme comment please? I am just considering the relative financial benefits of this over, a) Paying for a TR yourself (shock horror), b) Carrying on as an instructor and starting via the traditional smaller operators. c) Winging it and hope you get lucky with a job.
A little hypothetical as it assumes that there are jobs to be had for a) b) and c) route, but a worthy discussion nonetheless I think.
Comments? And people thinking about fly for food answers, I'd give my hind teeth etc., let's try and keep to professional replies. I emphasise the hypothetically part once again.
Supposing you are lucky enough to get through all this, costing you 7 grand or whatever, are you still going to be had for a lengthy bond, and much reduced salary?
Assuming the airline pick up the TR cost 100% (is that correct anybody), I suspect this means that the pilot who initially works for nothing for 6 months would then start on a 2/3rds salary or something a la Easyjet TRSS? Or is the 6 months work for nothing deemed payment for the TR?
Anybody who has done the scheme comment please? I am just considering the relative financial benefits of this over, a) Paying for a TR yourself (shock horror), b) Carrying on as an instructor and starting via the traditional smaller operators. c) Winging it and hope you get lucky with a job.
A little hypothetical as it assumes that there are jobs to be had for a) b) and c) route, but a worthy discussion nonetheless I think.
Comments? And people thinking about fly for food answers, I'd give my hind teeth etc., let's try and keep to professional replies. I emphasise the hypothetically part once again.
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From what I am aware of, the ATP Scheme had you on a reduced payment of 'expenses only' ie flight duty pay etc and no salary at all during your first 6 months with said airline. At jmc (as was) this worked out at about £800 per month. Remember that you are not employed by the airline at that point and will just be finishing line training. If you get taken on by the airline you then get the full wage payable to any other F/O or S/O. Many airlines have the S/O rank for just this sort of scenario, ie you have a frozen ATPL. Promotion to F/O level usually comes with unfreezing the ATPL and something like 500hrs jet as a minimum.
What you have to remember is that even though the pay is not so great to start with you guarantee to be on a higher wage than an FI and probably not far off the upper end of a Turbo-prop F/O salary once your 6 months is up. In my opinion you are saving somewhere in the region of 5 years on the average airline career by getting in on a scheme like this as the alternative is to do something like an FI rating after say 6 months of applying and getting nowhere, approx 2 years as an FI building hours, then say a turbo-prop F/O job for a couple of years before applying and getting accepted into a jet operator. (Obviously this is hypothetical and will vary with the market and on an individual basis.) Looked at that way the 'cadet' has earned considerably more in that same time period (probably a full blown F/O after about 2 years starting on approx £37k) with increments in salary each year after, has not had to worry about the 'age vs experience' selection criteria due to being on a 'big jet' all that time and most importantly is now nearly five years into a seniority list (easy excepted of course) which means a number of things;
1. Much safer when the downturn comes and 'last in first out' redundancy becomes an issue.
2. Closer to a command opportunity.
3. Getting a better choice of flying opportunities, basing etc etc if they are chosen on a seniority basis.
If pension is an issue, they have also been 'in' their scheme for longer. Again, not as much an issue these days as very few have final salary schemes, but still a consideration.
So, I'm not trying to flog these schemes, but just point out the benefit of the ATP scheme in particular.
Bonding is another issue and as far as I am aware the airline pay a premium to CTC for the product and will then require you to sign a bond, just like if they had taken you on and paid for your training in the first place.
Hope that helps.
PP
What you have to remember is that even though the pay is not so great to start with you guarantee to be on a higher wage than an FI and probably not far off the upper end of a Turbo-prop F/O salary once your 6 months is up. In my opinion you are saving somewhere in the region of 5 years on the average airline career by getting in on a scheme like this as the alternative is to do something like an FI rating after say 6 months of applying and getting nowhere, approx 2 years as an FI building hours, then say a turbo-prop F/O job for a couple of years before applying and getting accepted into a jet operator. (Obviously this is hypothetical and will vary with the market and on an individual basis.) Looked at that way the 'cadet' has earned considerably more in that same time period (probably a full blown F/O after about 2 years starting on approx £37k) with increments in salary each year after, has not had to worry about the 'age vs experience' selection criteria due to being on a 'big jet' all that time and most importantly is now nearly five years into a seniority list (easy excepted of course) which means a number of things;
1. Much safer when the downturn comes and 'last in first out' redundancy becomes an issue.
2. Closer to a command opportunity.
3. Getting a better choice of flying opportunities, basing etc etc if they are chosen on a seniority basis.
If pension is an issue, they have also been 'in' their scheme for longer. Again, not as much an issue these days as very few have final salary schemes, but still a consideration.
So, I'm not trying to flog these schemes, but just point out the benefit of the ATP scheme in particular.
Bonding is another issue and as far as I am aware the airline pay a premium to CTC for the product and will then require you to sign a bond, just like if they had taken you on and paid for your training in the first place.
Hope that helps.
PP
Terrier
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When I was a CTC Cadet at jmc a few years back.....the deal was this:
I received £1000 per month from CTC when I was under my six month training period at jmc.
I also received flight allowances from jmc, and did a fair bit of training and line flying away from my base. Hence I received about £600 to £750 a month from them as well.
I never seemed to be taxed either.....
As far as a bond goes: I never signed one, and I believe the CTC scheme is bond free.
However, you will love your job so much for the first two or three years, you will not want to leave anyhow. So, the bond is not an issue.
p.s. I was one of the lucky few who never had to pay £6000. Right place and right time I think
I received £1000 per month from CTC when I was under my six month training period at jmc.
I also received flight allowances from jmc, and did a fair bit of training and line flying away from my base. Hence I received about £600 to £750 a month from them as well.
I never seemed to be taxed either.....
As far as a bond goes: I never signed one, and I believe the CTC scheme is bond free.
However, you will love your job so much for the first two or three years, you will not want to leave anyhow. So, the bond is not an issue.
p.s. I was one of the lucky few who never had to pay £6000. Right place and right time I think
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In easyjet you don't get any pay from easyjet itself for the first 6 months (no salary or sector pay) - you do get night stop allowance. What you get is £1000 per month tax free from CTC and after your 6 months is up you go onto a full easyjet salary and benefits. The good thing is you don't have the £17k 3 year bond that everyone else is subject to.
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Just to clarify, people have mentioned simulator tests as part of the selection process. Is this part of stage 2 or 3? (i have stage 2 on monday)
The reason being I have heard shoes with slippery soles are no good for the sim test and i want to make sure I have the right sort with me.
Thanks!
The reason being I have heard shoes with slippery soles are no good for the sim test and i want to make sure I have the right sort with me.
Thanks!
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kris,
The simulator test forms stage 4 of the selection process so you'll have to battle through stage 2 and 3 first before they let you have a go on the sim. Stage 2 does, however, feature a computer test which uses rudder pedals so i'd leave those slippery soled shoes at home if I were you.
Best of luck
Rod E
The simulator test forms stage 4 of the selection process so you'll have to battle through stage 2 and 3 first before they let you have a go on the sim. Stage 2 does, however, feature a computer test which uses rudder pedals so i'd leave those slippery soled shoes at home if I were you.
Best of luck
Rod E
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Centre on Monday
Hi
Is anyone else going on Monday? Just wanted to have some prior contact! What kind of things are people learning about? Any useful websites/other sources of info that people could recommend? What are you supposed to wear? I know it's a silly thing to think of but would like to know...
Also, is anyone staying there the night before?
Anna
Is anyone else going on Monday? Just wanted to have some prior contact! What kind of things are people learning about? Any useful websites/other sources of info that people could recommend? What are you supposed to wear? I know it's a silly thing to think of but would like to know...
Also, is anyone staying there the night before?
Anna
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Thanks Rod
Anna,
I'm off to southampton on Monday. Have a look at http://www.mathsisfun.com also http://www.shldirect.com
I've been practising long dividsion and vectors as I'm not too hot at these.
I'm wearing a suit as it's an interview. See you then!
Anna,
I'm off to southampton on Monday. Have a look at http://www.mathsisfun.com also http://www.shldirect.com
I've been practising long dividsion and vectors as I'm not too hot at these.
I'm wearing a suit as it's an interview. See you then!
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Thanks for the replies here. It all adds to knowing what you are letting yourself into, and I am concluding that it is a very good scheme!
Anybody like to take a punt at when things will start moving again, i.e. approx timescale for the restarting of selection tests?
Anybody like to take a punt at when things will start moving again, i.e. approx timescale for the restarting of selection tests?
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Greener Grass, for what its worth I agree with your conclusion, but its always a good idea to go in with as much knowledge as possible beforehand and make up your own mind.
PP (and the rest)- appreciate you taking the time as a line pilot to help us wannabes make informed decisions. Nice of you to give something back.
SF
PP (and the rest)- appreciate you taking the time as a line pilot to help us wannabes make informed decisions. Nice of you to give something back.
SF
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hey all,
just a quick note to those who were at the stage 2 selection yesterday. it was great meeting you all, and i hope to see you again at stage 3. does anyone have any idea of the dates?
anna, mike, dave, john - did you all get through?
good luck to everyone!
just a quick note to those who were at the stage 2 selection yesterday. it was great meeting you all, and i hope to see you again at stage 3. does anyone have any idea of the dates?
anna, mike, dave, john - did you all get through?
good luck to everyone!