CTC McAlpine/easyJet/JMC Sponsorship Selection
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Module 2
Hi Tony,
Indeed, the first course achieved an average of 93% on module one of their ATPLs and I take my hat off to them. Really well done. I was referring to module two which they only have 12 weeks to complete on top of learning to fly IFR, get a twin rating and do about 20 more hours VFR cross country - all in 12 weeks. If they don't pull their socks up, they will seriously affect their chances of passing module two let alone attaining the same high standards they set themselves for module one. Alex W, are they not behind on their progress test submissions at the moment?
My main point is, they got through a tough selection, they should respect being 'the chosen ones' and work hard to get through their training. Why do they think it would be okay to spend their time on computer games then have the cheek to complain that they don't have enough time for their ATPLs. I hope Rod Wren is on the case otherwise when they fall over on module two, the reputation of CTCM will take a fall too.
Rich
Indeed, the first course achieved an average of 93% on module one of their ATPLs and I take my hat off to them. Really well done. I was referring to module two which they only have 12 weeks to complete on top of learning to fly IFR, get a twin rating and do about 20 more hours VFR cross country - all in 12 weeks. If they don't pull their socks up, they will seriously affect their chances of passing module two let alone attaining the same high standards they set themselves for module one. Alex W, are they not behind on their progress test submissions at the moment?
My main point is, they got through a tough selection, they should respect being 'the chosen ones' and work hard to get through their training. Why do they think it would be okay to spend their time on computer games then have the cheek to complain that they don't have enough time for their ATPLs. I hope Rod Wren is on the case otherwise when they fall over on module two, the reputation of CTCM will take a fall too.
Rich
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Priorities are correct!
Can’t believe I am going to rise to this but I feel I must to correct what you have said.
Rich, you seem to be very well informed but unfortunately in my opinion very wrong. Perhaps there has been a bit of a misunderstanding between you and your mate out here. I don’t think there is another course out here that isn’t extremely glad that the first course comprises who it does. They are all fantastic people who will give the CTC scheme an excellent name when they start line training (as they will).
I am not sure how you can claim they are not working hard, from what I see they are working extremely hard. Granted they may spend some time playing computer games but isn’t everyone allowed some time off???
I have further shocking news; some people out here dare take time off to play football, badminton some even go swimming. Even worse I have actually seen people taking time off to have a few beers and relax on a Saturday night!!! I only pray Rod doesn’t get hold of this information.
Please excuse my sarcasm but it is hard work out here and if you do not take time off to do something you enjoy which takes you away from the pressures (self applied) of studying and flying you will burn out. Working 24 / 7 is not an option, you can work all the hours in the day but your productivity and effectiveness will drop. You need to remove yourself so that you can go back to work refreshed and more importantly with a high level of concentration.
Every single person out here is extremely committed and has spent a lot of time and effort to get here making many personal sacrifices along the way. There is not one person stupid enough to spend too long on a computer game (or anything else for that matter) to throw all that away. Everyone realises how lucky he or she is and as a result how hard we have to work.
I know how hard CP1 work and it is very hard. Sometimes you get a lot of flying done and fall behind with the ATPL’s, particularly if you are in the middle of a very long section. Not a problem, every one is sensible, you catch up when the weather turns bad or just as later chapters are a bit shorter.
I hope you pass selection, but only so you can come out here and see how hard they and everyone else works.
I don’t want to enter into a debate on workloads, time off, the scheme itself but I felt I had to defend CP1 who everyone (students and instructor alike) holds in very high regard. I have every confidence that they will pass module 2.
Finally, no offence but if anyone was to comment on CP1’s workload it should be the latter courses (like mine) who would find themselves up a creek without a paddle if CP1 ruined everything by slacking off. No one has those concerns at all, quite the contrary.
This is the end of my first and last post as I need to get some work done to make up for the time I wasted replying to this stupid post.
Rich, you seem to be very well informed but unfortunately in my opinion very wrong. Perhaps there has been a bit of a misunderstanding between you and your mate out here. I don’t think there is another course out here that isn’t extremely glad that the first course comprises who it does. They are all fantastic people who will give the CTC scheme an excellent name when they start line training (as they will).
I am not sure how you can claim they are not working hard, from what I see they are working extremely hard. Granted they may spend some time playing computer games but isn’t everyone allowed some time off???
I have further shocking news; some people out here dare take time off to play football, badminton some even go swimming. Even worse I have actually seen people taking time off to have a few beers and relax on a Saturday night!!! I only pray Rod doesn’t get hold of this information.
Please excuse my sarcasm but it is hard work out here and if you do not take time off to do something you enjoy which takes you away from the pressures (self applied) of studying and flying you will burn out. Working 24 / 7 is not an option, you can work all the hours in the day but your productivity and effectiveness will drop. You need to remove yourself so that you can go back to work refreshed and more importantly with a high level of concentration.
Every single person out here is extremely committed and has spent a lot of time and effort to get here making many personal sacrifices along the way. There is not one person stupid enough to spend too long on a computer game (or anything else for that matter) to throw all that away. Everyone realises how lucky he or she is and as a result how hard we have to work.
I know how hard CP1 work and it is very hard. Sometimes you get a lot of flying done and fall behind with the ATPL’s, particularly if you are in the middle of a very long section. Not a problem, every one is sensible, you catch up when the weather turns bad or just as later chapters are a bit shorter.
I hope you pass selection, but only so you can come out here and see how hard they and everyone else works.
I don’t want to enter into a debate on workloads, time off, the scheme itself but I felt I had to defend CP1 who everyone (students and instructor alike) holds in very high regard. I have every confidence that they will pass module 2.
Finally, no offence but if anyone was to comment on CP1’s workload it should be the latter courses (like mine) who would find themselves up a creek without a paddle if CP1 ruined everything by slacking off. No one has those concerns at all, quite the contrary.
This is the end of my first and last post as I need to get some work done to make up for the time I wasted replying to this stupid post.
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I just cannot believe that people would even consider such a thing let alone post it on a forum such as this. What do people expect us to do get home from 12 hours of study and some flying, and then do some more study!
If the first course finds it easy to wind down after work with computer games and a beer so be it, it’s not anyone’s business to comment on it and especially make a judgment on them.
CP1 are some of the most intelligent people I’ve met, they are highly regarded among the instructors and students and extremely dedicated. They all got over 90% averages on the first module of ATPLs with one of them achieving a 96% average.
Everyone out here in NZ considers himself or herself fortunate to be here, no one will jeopardise the future they have worked so hard to get.
What an inconsiderate thing to post, and probably one of the most insulting I’ve seen.
I think that an apology will be required, for what is a personal attack on CP1, and to do it on a public forum just leaves me in bewilderment.
People have their opinions on this scheme this thread is here so people can discuss them, not personally attack people already on the course.
If the first course finds it easy to wind down after work with computer games and a beer so be it, it’s not anyone’s business to comment on it and especially make a judgment on them.
CP1 are some of the most intelligent people I’ve met, they are highly regarded among the instructors and students and extremely dedicated. They all got over 90% averages on the first module of ATPLs with one of them achieving a 96% average.
Everyone out here in NZ considers himself or herself fortunate to be here, no one will jeopardise the future they have worked so hard to get.
What an inconsiderate thing to post, and probably one of the most insulting I’ve seen.
I think that an apology will be required, for what is a personal attack on CP1, and to do it on a public forum just leaves me in bewilderment.
People have their opinions on this scheme this thread is here so people can discuss them, not personally attack people already on the course.
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Firstly, thanks to the guys for the posts regarding the flexibility of selection dates, cheers.
Secondly, I would like to know how they decide if you have passed stage 2 and therefore be put through to stage 3.
For instance, if there are 20 of us and 10 get through to stage 3 and the other 10 get rejected, then how does CTC assess this. Do they take into account your 4 essay questions, your age, number of flying hours etc....or is it just a case of the first 10 guys with the highest mark or score on the selection day get through.
Thanks!
Secondly, I would like to know how they decide if you have passed stage 2 and therefore be put through to stage 3.
For instance, if there are 20 of us and 10 get through to stage 3 and the other 10 get rejected, then how does CTC assess this. Do they take into account your 4 essay questions, your age, number of flying hours etc....or is it just a case of the first 10 guys with the highest mark or score on the selection day get through.
Thanks!
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As far as I am aware, if you meet the critera that CTC are looking for, you will be successful and rather than select just enough for one course, they'll begin to fill the following course. So far, I believe that this has been the case and a number of future courses have been filled.
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P1 Forever,
The feedback i got from stage two says that they compare your results/aptitude etc with all the other people they have tested. Your results will then be placed in one of 4 quartials, in other words, you may achieve results in the top 25% of all applicants, the second 25%, third, or bottom(ouch). I'm guessing you have to achieve an 'overall pilot aptitude' that is within the top 25% of all applicants to progress to stage 3. So in theory, if you have the required aptitude, you will get on fine. It doesn't matter if the other guys at your stage 2 are all geniuses, you should all progress if you all manage to achieve results in the top bracket.
The standard is high, but if you meet it, you're through, regardless of how other people score on the day. Hope it all goes well.
The feedback i got from stage two says that they compare your results/aptitude etc with all the other people they have tested. Your results will then be placed in one of 4 quartials, in other words, you may achieve results in the top 25% of all applicants, the second 25%, third, or bottom(ouch). I'm guessing you have to achieve an 'overall pilot aptitude' that is within the top 25% of all applicants to progress to stage 3. So in theory, if you have the required aptitude, you will get on fine. It doesn't matter if the other guys at your stage 2 are all geniuses, you should all progress if you all manage to achieve results in the top bracket.
The standard is high, but if you meet it, you're through, regardless of how other people score on the day. Hope it all goes well.
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Rich, I do not know if you are who you purport to be, and frankly care less. If you are, you will find that one attribute we look for in candidates is being team players. On the showing here, I’d be surprised if you qualify on that front.
I have not been provoked into contributing to PPRuNe myself before, and will not be drawn into discussion here on the scheme or the training. I do monitor the forum on occasions, and applaud Danny and his Team for what they aim to achieve on the whole forum and the Wannabes section in particular.
The only reason that I have been tempted out of the shadows on this occasion is that you have chosen to criticise, in public, cadets who are easily personally identified. You appear to be well informed about some of the facts. However, you are off the mark in some others.
I have absolute faith in the dedication and standards of the cadets you have chosen to take a pot shot at. As you can see from the reaction of some of their peers, I am not alone in that assessment. I would like to take credit for their measurable success and high standards; however, I am happy to acknowledge that we have been blessed with outstanding applicants and are able to achieve results that traditional schools would dream of, in no small measure due to the quality of our cadets.
Perhaps you would be well advised to spend your time better than to make unjustified criticism of others. If you are who you pretend to be, there are better ways to prepare for selection. CP1 are an exceptional course amongst an outstandingly good peer group.
I have not been provoked into contributing to PPRuNe myself before, and will not be drawn into discussion here on the scheme or the training. I do monitor the forum on occasions, and applaud Danny and his Team for what they aim to achieve on the whole forum and the Wannabes section in particular.
The only reason that I have been tempted out of the shadows on this occasion is that you have chosen to criticise, in public, cadets who are easily personally identified. You appear to be well informed about some of the facts. However, you are off the mark in some others.
I have absolute faith in the dedication and standards of the cadets you have chosen to take a pot shot at. As you can see from the reaction of some of their peers, I am not alone in that assessment. I would like to take credit for their measurable success and high standards; however, I am happy to acknowledge that we have been blessed with outstanding applicants and are able to achieve results that traditional schools would dream of, in no small measure due to the quality of our cadets.
Perhaps you would be well advised to spend your time better than to make unjustified criticism of others. If you are who you pretend to be, there are better ways to prepare for selection. CP1 are an exceptional course amongst an outstandingly good peer group.
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CTC's ATP Scheme and Easyjet
A quicky question for those in the know with CTC/Easy or in the hold pool..
As I understand the current hold pool is full, and no more selection tests will be done until it starts to shrink.
What I don't understand is why Easyjet (who are aparantly desperate for flight crew who meet their requirements) are not taking these people on.
Have they not had recent success with ATP cadets? Is Easy full in terms of line training capacity?
Any reason why after coming to a rather large training agreement with CTC (which covers more than just the ATP scheme understandably) they are not taking on their cadets?
As I understand the current hold pool is full, and no more selection tests will be done until it starts to shrink.
What I don't understand is why Easyjet (who are aparantly desperate for flight crew who meet their requirements) are not taking these people on.
Have they not had recent success with ATP cadets? Is Easy full in terms of line training capacity?
Any reason why after coming to a rather large training agreement with CTC (which covers more than just the ATP scheme understandably) they are not taking on their cadets?
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JT8 - I think they are taking on CTC cadets but they only take on a few at a time. As much as they are in need of pilots they don't take them all from the ATP scheme as I think they want a balance of experience. Also the pass rate of experienced pilots going through the conversion course is better than that of CTC cadets and it wastes money to train a CTC cadet up to the point where they fail the course or fail in their line training. So as a result of this, easyJet take a drip feed of cadets from CTC I think. As one myself, I have to say it is a good scheme but when I went through there weren't many in the pool.
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JT8
As regards the 'balance of experience' you will find that the Authority will not allow an airline to recruit everyone with low hours for that exact reason. Maybe this is another factor? Also, Easy require captains and it is a fact that someone with a few thousand hours from another operator is closer in experience terms to a command course than a 250hr cadet. Possibly another factor.
Regards
PP
As regards the 'balance of experience' you will find that the Authority will not allow an airline to recruit everyone with low hours for that exact reason. Maybe this is another factor? Also, Easy require captains and it is a fact that someone with a few thousand hours from another operator is closer in experience terms to a command course than a 250hr cadet. Possibly another factor.
Regards
PP
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There are almost 40 CTC-McAlpine (ab-initio cadets) lined up already for ej doing the courses in NZ at the moment. Perhaps they represent a better deal (financially) to EJ than ATP cadets??
Also, as the McAlpine scheme is new, perhaps CTC have been pushing these cadets rather than ATP cadets to ensure it gets off to a good start?
Also, as the McAlpine scheme is new, perhaps CTC have been pushing these cadets rather than ATP cadets to ensure it gets off to a good start?
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lemon
If we are talking ATP Scheme I thought the idea was that the ATP Academy (CTC) took all the financial risk of one of their cadets failing and that was one of the reasons why the airlines liked the scheme? So presumably easyJet wouldn't lose anything if a cadet failed during training?
This is why CTC are so selective when it comes to the ATP scheme, along of course with their reputation for providing a good product which keeps the 'buyers' coming back for more.
PP
If we are talking ATP Scheme I thought the idea was that the ATP Academy (CTC) took all the financial risk of one of their cadets failing and that was one of the reasons why the airlines liked the scheme? So presumably easyJet wouldn't lose anything if a cadet failed during training?
This is why CTC are so selective when it comes to the ATP scheme, along of course with their reputation for providing a good product which keeps the 'buyers' coming back for more.
PP
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I imagine that EasyJet will continue to take a trickle of ATP cadets on an ongoing basis to balance out the experience in their airline and to fill any type rating courses where unexpected vacanies occur.
I do not know what CTC charges for an ATP Scheme pilot but I would imagine that the overall cost to the airline of an ATP cadet would be higher than an 'experienced' TRSS pilot. Although the ATP pilots work for a basic allowance for the first six months, over the course of five years (after which both routes will be on equal salaries) the ATP Scheme pilots will have an overall higher salary.
The fact that CTC pays for the type rating and assumes the risk means that they must charge a premium above the normal training costs of these pilots. The airlines that subscribe to the scheme must be willing to pay a bit extra to ensure they are getting high quality low hours pilots and for the opportunity to evaluate these pilots before making a long term commitment.
I do not know what CTC charges for an ATP Scheme pilot but I would imagine that the overall cost to the airline of an ATP cadet would be higher than an 'experienced' TRSS pilot. Although the ATP pilots work for a basic allowance for the first six months, over the course of five years (after which both routes will be on equal salaries) the ATP Scheme pilots will have an overall higher salary.
The fact that CTC pays for the type rating and assumes the risk means that they must charge a premium above the normal training costs of these pilots. The airlines that subscribe to the scheme must be willing to pay a bit extra to ensure they are getting high quality low hours pilots and for the opportunity to evaluate these pilots before making a long term commitment.
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I'm looking for some advice. I'm due to go to ctc for selection tests later this month and wondered if anyone had an idea of what to expect / practice tests to do beforehand?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Question for Rod Wren
This post is slightly off track (and definately not knocking the current cadets...I have no doubt that they work very hard).
My question for Rod is more to do with the feedback obtained from CTC about aptitude tests.
I applied for the sponsorship late last year and was unsuccessful at Stage 2. As ever I was disappointed (but not bitter), and I was fairly resiliant about this as I seem to have mixed success at various other aptitude tests (sometimes getting to the last stage, other times not progressing past the first application form)!
However, when I eventually received feedback from CTC I was disappointed about the usefulness of the format it came in.
Let me explain.....
Feedback is provided on 4 categories of aptitude:
1) Overall Aptitude
2)Pilot Flying Aptitude
3)Pilot Cognitive Aptitude
4) Pilot Theory Aptitude
Applicants are then 'scored' into one of four quartiles (Low risk, normal risk, increased risk and high risk....to training) for each of the four aptitude areas.
However, the use of the 'Quartiles' principle I found useless to work from, I am keen to work on those areas I am weak on.
It would be far more use to people if you provided their score out of a possible total for EACH of the tests sat, as a good performance on one metric may be masked by a poor performance on another metric if the results are 'merged' under the four categories listed above.
I know this is off topic, but I think feedback is so important to help those of us who are sticking with it and going the self-funded route.
So is there any chance of more detailed and more valid feedback being provided if requested? I know it stated in the e-mail that further correspondance about feedback was not possible, but it also stated in the same e-mail that you wished to be absolutely sure that you were providing VALID feedback.
Thanks
GQ
My question for Rod is more to do with the feedback obtained from CTC about aptitude tests.
I applied for the sponsorship late last year and was unsuccessful at Stage 2. As ever I was disappointed (but not bitter), and I was fairly resiliant about this as I seem to have mixed success at various other aptitude tests (sometimes getting to the last stage, other times not progressing past the first application form)!
However, when I eventually received feedback from CTC I was disappointed about the usefulness of the format it came in.
Let me explain.....
Feedback is provided on 4 categories of aptitude:
1) Overall Aptitude
2)Pilot Flying Aptitude
3)Pilot Cognitive Aptitude
4) Pilot Theory Aptitude
Applicants are then 'scored' into one of four quartiles (Low risk, normal risk, increased risk and high risk....to training) for each of the four aptitude areas.
However, the use of the 'Quartiles' principle I found useless to work from, I am keen to work on those areas I am weak on.
It would be far more use to people if you provided their score out of a possible total for EACH of the tests sat, as a good performance on one metric may be masked by a poor performance on another metric if the results are 'merged' under the four categories listed above.
I know this is off topic, but I think feedback is so important to help those of us who are sticking with it and going the self-funded route.
So is there any chance of more detailed and more valid feedback being provided if requested? I know it stated in the e-mail that further correspondance about feedback was not possible, but it also stated in the same e-mail that you wished to be absolutely sure that you were providing VALID feedback.
Thanks
GQ
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Kris22,
Suspect you are looking for info on the CTC-McAlpine selection process - there's a very large thread on this forum for that.
This is an ATP scheme thread - if this is the one you want, there are many past threads to search through.
Good luck either way
Suspect you are looking for info on the CTC-McAlpine selection process - there's a very large thread on this forum for that.
This is an ATP scheme thread - if this is the one you want, there are many past threads to search through.
Good luck either way
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Some good news I'm through to Phase 2 but don't have a date. They are doing a Phase 2 day in November but that is it. Any of you guys in this position?
Almost 30 people in holding pool. Easy only taking about 1 a month. Brits and Monarch took some earlier in the year but that was it.
Think I'll go and pull another iron out of the fire!!
TD
Almost 30 people in holding pool. Easy only taking about 1 a month. Brits and Monarch took some earlier in the year but that was it.
Think I'll go and pull another iron out of the fire!!
TD
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I read somewhere they placed about 30 people through the ATP scheme last year, so that might give you some idea of the amount of time it'll take the pool to 'drain'.
Guess some of it depends how the improvement in the industry/economy balances other ways of getting less experienced pilots like easyjets TRSS.
Still no harm in going through the next couple of stages as you don't have to fork out until the last stage, then things may look a bit different.
Guess some of it depends how the improvement in the industry/economy balances other ways of getting less experienced pilots like easyjets TRSS.
Still no harm in going through the next couple of stages as you don't have to fork out until the last stage, then things may look a bit different.