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The Forgotten Modular ATPL Student

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The Forgotten Modular ATPL Student

Old 18th Sep 2023, 19:01
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Originally Posted by 4KBeta
If I'm honest - the cadet schemes are astronaut selection level. BA is taking 70 on this intake, likely 5-10,000 will apply.

Now I'm not suggesting you aren't good enough OR "you don't stand a chance". In maths terms, just over 1% of people that apply will get offered (less <1% if towards 10k). For many people, it has taken multiple attempts to get through - there is lots of blogs that confirm this.

Are you going to continue holding out hope for that, or can you start now and plan effectively to make it happen?

Good luck.
the latter. Thank you 4KBeta.

Best of luck too!
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Old 18th Sep 2023, 23:59
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Originally Posted by 4KBeta
As above, there is lots of schemes available right now - you should be applying now if you have the opportunity to do it. If family or work isn't a blocker to applying to the schemes, I wouldn't suggest waiting / holding off for the "perfect scenario" - it won't happen. If you're serious about doing it, it's never been better in terms of recruitment and opportunity of these schemes.

Don't leave it too late, to when you might have a family, people dependant on your income and actually you can't disappear for 6 months for sunny weather flying (trust me, I know what I'm talking about).

There is nothing wrong with going modular, you just need to accept that you will be paying all of the cost yourself. It seems to be pretty common now that most don't want more then 3 different ATO's, expect 85%+ on ATPLs and first time on IR.
I'm going to be putting in for all of the sponsored schemes I'm eligible for as they become available, no family commitments etc. at the moment so I have options.

Originally Posted by 4KBeta
If I'm honest - the cadet schemes are astronaut selection level. BA is taking 70 on this intake, likely 5-10,000 will apply.

Now I'm not suggesting you aren't good enough OR "you don't stand a chance". In maths terms, just over 1% of people that apply will get offered (less <1% if towards 10k). For many people, it has taken multiple attempts to get through - there is lots of blogs that confirm this.

Are you going to continue holding out hope for that, or can you start now and plan effectively to make it happen?

Good luck.
I faced "astronaut odds" for two out of the last three jobs I've been in, the one which didn't have such odds was an internal promotion. Hopefully the likes of Jet2, Easyjet, Loganair etc. will join the ranks of airlines offering sponsored training and there will be 5-6 opportunities per year to apply. Any sought after job will have plenty of people applying in the internet age.

One question worth asking I think is how ATPL theory schools log the 650 hours of study which must be completed for the course. I don't suppose it would be possible for someone who is saving up to buy all of the ATPL theory books, sit no exams (to remain eligible for sponsored programmes) and study the subjects over and over again for a few years so that they memorise as much of it as possible before smashing all of the exams within a timeframe of two or three months?
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 21:05
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Originally Posted by Chris the Robot
Hopefully the likes of Jet2, Easyjet, Loganair etc. will join the ranks of airlines offering sponsored training and there will be 5-6 opportunities per year to apply.
I donít think EZY will start offering sponsored training. Actually I got selected for their MPL (and if everything goes well) Iíll gladly join them, btw Iíll have to pay £100kÖ I think when a company announces that theyíre going to pay for their cadetsí training theyíre going to face a big hit in terms of stock price IMHO.
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 17:55
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Originally Posted by Duca
I I think when a company announces that theyíre going to pay for their cadetsí training theyíre going to face a big hit in terms of stock price IMHO.
Likely a tax deductable expense...

If it wasnt, lets take BA... 70 students * 100k ...drop in the ocean vs current profits and scheme ROI.
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Old 25th Sep 2023, 11:52
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Originally Posted by Chris the Robot
I'm going to be putting in for all of the sponsored schemes I'm eligible for as they become available, no family commitments etc. at the moment so I have options.



I faced "astronaut odds" for two out of the last three jobs I've been in, the one which didn't have such odds was an internal promotion. Hopefully the likes of Jet2, Easyjet, Loganair etc. will join the ranks of airlines offering sponsored training and there will be 5-6 opportunities per year to apply. Any sought after job will have plenty of people applying in the internet age.

One question worth asking I think is how ATPL theory schools log the 650 hours of study which must be completed for the course. I don't suppose it would be possible for someone who is saving up to buy all of the ATPL theory books, sit no exams (to remain eligible for sponsored programmes) and study the subjects over and over again for a few years so that they memorise as much of it as possible before smashing all of the exams within a timeframe of two or three months?
There is a requirement for 10% of the hours to be live tuition (65 hours). Bristol Groundschool cover this time via revision weeks (which I highly recommend).
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Old 25th Sep 2023, 13:59
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Sit no exams to remain eligible for sponsored positions? Is this for real?! 'Planning' to get a sponsored position is like planning to win the lottery, it isn't going to happen. There is a tried and trusted route to the airlines, and that is working in ground ops while doing a modular CPL/IR over 3-4 years.
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Old 18th Oct 2023, 01:03
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Nope, cadetships only take you from zero to hero. You canít join half way through.
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Old 18th Oct 2023, 10:27
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
Nope, cadetships only take you from zero to hero. You canít join half way through.
That's slightly wrong.

You can have a PPL, but you will be starting the course as a Zero (so fresh). Many if not nearly all of the intakes recently have PPL's and likely had begun hours building. (quick LinkedIn search will help you)

They key requirement is that you must not have started / sat any ATPL exams.
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Old 18th Oct 2023, 10:41
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This has only become apparent this year. Previous TUI and Aer Lingus cadetships allowed you to apply with ATPLs. This year, it is not the case.
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Old 18th Oct 2023, 12:25
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Originally Posted by 4KBeta
If I'm honest - the cadet schemes are astronaut selection level. BA is taking 70 on this intake, likely 5-10,000 will apply.
.
To be honest the situation doesn't change after getting 200h on pistons and having a cpl me/ir mcc auprt. It gets even worse actually.
Airlines that do not charge for TR have the same amount, if not more competition than those cadet programs. The difference being now they'll also demand more from their applicants, as everyone applying will be a qualified pilot.
Not only will you have to go through the same stuff in the selection process as cadets go through ie. logical games, maths physics group tasks etc. but now in addition to that youll have to demonstrate fluency in atpl technical knowledge and be top gun in the simulator checks among other things.
It's just better to get into a funded cadet program imho- the overall requirements are smaller compared to funded TR schemes for straight out of flight school folks.

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Old 23rd Oct 2023, 01:28
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Itís been like this for years.

my advice if you are eligible for the cadet schemes do not progress any further on the modular route try to get to the cadet schemes.

if you are stuck in between, instructing is probably the best route.

or - sunk cost fallacy move onto something else and fly for fun
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Old 23rd Oct 2023, 07:21
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Read the post above. It's a perfect example of the attitude you don't want in an airliner: I'm interested in being a pilot but I don't want to actually work hard for it.
Now consider someone who actually WANTS to be a pilot: they'll do whatever it takes to make it happen and overcome each obstacle one at a time until they reach their goal.
Getting into an airliner for a normal person is a three step process:
1) Get the money.
2) Get the licence.
3) Get the job.
The struggle is not over until you have all three, and they require different skillsets.
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Old 23rd Oct 2023, 12:08
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Originally Posted by Iflyplainplanes
Itís been like this for years.

my advice if you are eligible for the cadet schemes do not progress any further on the modular route try to get to the cadet schemes.

if you are stuck in between, instructing is probably the best route.

or - sunk cost fallacy move onto something else and fly for fun
Link to the other thread youíve been bashing the modular route on this morning - response is there, not going to duplicate everything thatís already been saidÖ
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Old 27th Oct 2023, 09:03
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To me itís clear that modular students are being squeezed out at the moment in favour of whitetail cadets.

Iíve seen plenty of people from integrated schools get roles directly at tui, loganair, aurigny DHL when there are no active campaigns - where these candidates have exam and flight test failures compared to Ďstraight aí on the modular route. EasyJet also taking from
other schools where CAE canít deliver. The BACF recruitment drive earlier in the year mainly recruited their inexperienced pilots straight from integrated schools, and from my understanding BA Euroflyer are taking a lot more whitetail over NQPP. The airlines also get a nice healthy kickback from the school when they take one of their cadets - how on earth can modular students compete with that?

I get it - these schools entire business model relies on getting their punters into the airlines and have teams dedicated to working with airlines for doing so.

Yes, thereís Ryanair but no good for those of us that have a UK licence.

But where can we modular students go to get experience - the traditional survey or light twin jobs either donít exist or are looking for 300 hours plus. I donít think there is anywhere at the moment, those that are recruiting recently (eg 2Excel) astronaut level selection and competition from those making a career out of that kind of flying.

Yes there is instructing. I spoke to my local
flying schools whoíve all got a que of instructors wanting to start, so the investment in the course hardly seems a smart decision unless you want to make a career out of it.

So where is the modular student to go? Iím not sure - maybe Iím missing something or my CV is just not good enough (Iím not convinced that is the case, Iím mid 30s, have a professional career in the airlines and am able to demonstrate the competencies in abundance).
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