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MPL....the drawback

Old 5th Mar 2020, 16:56
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MPL....the drawback

Hi all,

Given the recent tragedy of flybe going under, I was wondering what thoughts/advice are for those who have found themselves with an MPL license, tied to flybe/Q400 with under the 1500 hours required to convert to a regular full ATPL.

difficult position to be in...arguably best course of action would be self fund a CPL test then an IR test to then get yourself a regular frozen ATPL and thus be more marketable to other companies as and when they start hiring again...?

any thoughts/comments/suggestions appreciated
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Old 5th Mar 2020, 17:09
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Damn.. so sorry to hear that. There is a specific route for MPL to CPL conversion, but I believe you'll need all the single-pilot PIC hours as required by the relevant Part-FCL section plus the X-Country etc. Have a read here - MPL to CPL.
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Old 5th Mar 2020, 17:35
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As far as I remember the MPL, once issued, still lets you add another type rating, so you’re not tied to Flybe or the Q400. The only reason for converting to a full CPL after the licence is issued is for single pilot privileges.
the problem is likely to still be finding a company which will employ you, as some are still a bit untrusting of the MPL. I flew with several pilots who had an MPL from Sterling after it went bust, and they had no issues changing company, albeit on the same type.
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Old 5th Mar 2020, 18:17
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Cheers for the responses. Have a mate whoís found themselves in this position but thereís no doubt many others who will fall into this category given the news...

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Old 5th Mar 2020, 19:57
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Unfortunately in my experience, almost all MPL graduates seriously lack in stick and rudder, airmanship and independant thinking, all necessary to be safely fly and operate an airliner.

The company I fly for does not even read their cv’s.

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Old 5th Mar 2020, 21:59
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How would your company be getting so many CVs from MPLs? When typically they are tied to an airline?
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Old 5th Mar 2020, 22:38
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Originally Posted by The Terminator View Post
How would your company be getting so many CVs from MPLs? When typically they are tied to an airline?
In short, they don't.
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Old 11th Mar 2020, 01:36
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Not met any FIs who are former MPLs...do MPLs even do say, 10A, Ex 11 or PFLs?
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Old 11th Mar 2020, 02:50
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I'm kind of tired of the MPL-bashing on this site. Yes we fly less on the SEP, that does not necessarily make us any less of pilot.

I have flown 75hrs SEP > Yes i know what a PFL is. I have 150+ glider hours as well, so a PFL is not unheard of.
Of those 75hrs, 5 were UPRT in an extra 300, so yes we know what an extra is.

To say we all lack stick and rudder is a bit short-sighted in my opinion. We didn't fly single engine on a multi engine piston no, but believe me, I've done more then enough of them in a 737/320 sim, which one could argue, is more relevant to your engine failures as an airline pilot.

Lack airmanship of and independant thinking, again big words. I don't think our airmanship or independent thinking at the end of our MPL is any less than a CPL cadet finishing their type rating. If these are your experiences with MPL, then I suggest your airline has done a shit job training them to the correct standard.
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Old 11th Mar 2020, 08:01
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I donít really care one way or another about the MPL. To be honest, if you gave me a low houred MPL cadet, a low houred Ďtraditionalí integrated cadet with a CPL/IR, and a low houred modular cadet on the line without telling me which was which, Iíd struggle to tell you which one was which.

Regardless of the training route taken, some cadets are excellent, some are average and some are not very good. They all lack airmanship, because they donít have any experience to fall back on. They all have the same issues with manual flying and energy management, again because they donít have any real experience.

With all that said, it is irritating when people donít even get the basic facts correct. The MPL doesnít tie you to a specific type or airline until the requirements for an ATPL are met. A type rating can be added
to an MPL in the same way as it can be to a CPL.

A somewhat moot point in any case because no airlines are likely to be hiring for a very long time.
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Old 11th Mar 2020, 09:56
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If you're on an MPL course when the airline goes bust, seek advice from the flight school about your best route for continuing. That'd likely be transitioning to a CPL/ME/IR should you not be that far into the training.

With regards to an MPL itself I believe that the value of several simulators in your eventual type seriously can't be understated. Despite taking the CPL route, the typical type rating is only about 10 simulators + your line skills test. That's not a huge deal of time. The success of an MPL with respect of stick and rudder depends entirely on the syllabus the airline asks the schools to follow as some airlines modify the syllabi to their needs more than others.

But to get back on track, as I understand it an MPL licence holder can still have add new ratings so it's simply down to an airline to accept an MPL licence holder. I'm happy to be corrected if need be.
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Old 11th Mar 2020, 16:52
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Originally Posted by excrab View Post
As far as I remember the MPL, once issued, still lets you add another type rating, so you’re not tied to Flybe or the Q400. The only reason for converting to a full CPL after the licence is issued is for single pilot privileges.
the problem is likely to still be finding a company which will employ you, as some are still a bit untrusting of the MPL. I flew with several pilots who had an MPL from Sterling after it went bust, and they had no issues changing company, albeit on the same type.
The above comments are entirely correct.

There continues to be however, a lot of nonsense talked by people in other threads who haven’t a scooby doo about just what MPL entitles.

Emphasising some of the more sensible remarks posted, the phases two & three involves 30 simulator sessions of four hours each. Compare that to a top notch APS course with ten sessions.

Who is, on balance, better prepared for the multi crew type rating course, those with 120 hours experience, or those with 40 hours experience......
I have trained junior birdmen on both.

Your very best APS style customer is probably a better bet than your marginal MPL trainee, as he has demonstrated a steep learning curve over a shorter period of time.

The contents of a type rating course is identical, irrespective of HOW you got there.

So provided the MPL has been issued, what is the problem?

Answer: some outfits simply don’t understand. Might come under the heading of too difficult.....Poppeycock.
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Old 11th Mar 2020, 20:35
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Thanks for the responses. I have limited experience in this as a regular ATPL holder but have a buddy with an MPL who also is under the impression that he can legally be hired by other companies to operate a different type.

issue is he could be correct but a lot of airline companies seem to think differently 🤔
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