Right to work in Europe

[Dawn Patrol]

Hi Everyone,

I hope this is the correct forum to ask...and I have done a search but didn't find any firm answers.

I am currently a UK passport holder with a European (Scandinavian) partner. Many jobs require a "right to live and work in Europe" and sometimes add unrestricted access throughout the EU/EEA.

It is looking like Brexit will potentially make this an issue. I should be able to apply for a residence/work visa in a European country with my partner. Does anyone have any experience if this satisfies airline employment criteria, or is an EU passport a necessity?

Thank you for any answers or advice.

[kontrolor]

if there is going to be a hard brexit, you might have some problems. Depending on where your licence was issued

[Dawn Patrol]

Yes I suspect that to be the case. I am hoping someone has experience working in Europe on some form of spouse/partnership visa (ie, without a European passport).

I’d think it must be possible, there’d be plenty of non-European pilots with European partners keen to work in Europe, and would like to hear any success (or otherwise) stories.

I’m about to embark on an expensive conversion process, and am curious on what potential limitations I would have if Brexit is a hard one.

[rubani17]

You will need a permanent EU resident permit to get a look in with the airlines.The requirements are 5 years residency in a EU country. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...e/index_en.htm

[The Foss]

Originally Posted by Dawn Patrol

Yes I suspect that to be the case. I am hoping someone has experience working in Europe on some form of spouse/partnership visa (ie, without a European passport).

I’d think it must be possible, there’d be plenty of non-European pilots with European partners keen to work in Europe, and would like to hear any success (or otherwise) stories.

I’m about to embark on an expensive conversion process, and am curious on what potential limitations I would have if Brexit is a hard one.

Your spouse can bring you to any eu country which isn’t their own using ‘eu treaty rights’ where you will have the same rights as an eu citizen including right to work, access healthcare etc. We did this in two different eu countries with my non European spouse.

You can get a 5 year residence card which can be converted to a permanent one / citizenship if you stay that long, however keep in mind that your initial right to live / work there relies on them actually exercising their treaty rights in that particular country, which means they have to be either employed, self employed, a student or self sufficient there.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

[Dawn Patrol]

Thank you The Foss. Just what I was after.

I understand most of that. Have you known any pilots to be employed during that 5 yr period (before gaining PR), under a spousal visa? On paper it seems like it wouldn’t be an issue, given the right to live and work is part of the deal. However, whether or not this suffices for airline employment is where I am not sure. Would love to hear any first hand examples.

(thought about sending a PM but I guess others could be interested also)

[The Foss]

i haven’t under this particular one but have come across other guys working on temporary visas.
its difficult to give more info without knowing which country you would need it for, but the documents you need to provide are largely the same.

In Ireland the process was very easy - booked appointment online, showed documents and got a passport stamp so my wife had proof of her rights until official permit issued (approx 7/8 months).
In Italy it was a total mess. No appointments just go to the local immigration centre, fight your way through the crowd at the front door when it opens and stand in line for hours hoping that you’re far enough forward in the queue to get seen that day. Took us three goes to get it done, and no temporary stamp which caused us a few issues as even though my wife was entitled to be regarded as an eu citizen from day of entry it’s difficult to get people to accept it without the residence permit. Received 5 year doc a bit faster, approx 3/4 months.

its hard to say if airlines would be aware of this so would accept that as sufficient at application stage, but if it doesn’t come up until interview you might have a better chance of explaining it then.

[GWOAH]

Been looking for a flying job on a spousal visa in an EU country too. Every airline, biz jet operator etc seems to require "Unrestricted right to work and live in the EU". Never figured what on earth this actually entails. A lot of them don't seem to know either. Some just assume this means having an European passport without knowing how a spousal visa works, which just makes things difficult. If Airline A has its bases only in Country A, then having a spousal visa for Country A should suffice. However some just don't seem to get that logic

[Dawn Patrol]

Thank you for the reply.

It would more than likely be a Nordic country, and I'm learning the language, so hopefully that helps. At least it sounds like there is a glimmer of a chance. Worst case working in the UK would be the restriction, whilst working on getting a more solid visa in the background.

Who knows what Brexit will (or won't) deliver, time will tell I suppose...

[Zak123]

Unrestricted right to live and work in EU

Hey !
​​I'm a Moroccan cadet pilot I'm holding the residence permit "Permesso di soggiorno per motivi familiari" in Italy and I'm planning to apply for ryanair air or wizz air from Italy, as we all know they require the "unrestricted right to live and work in EU".
Is my residence permit "Permesso di soggiorno per motivi familiari" enough for their condition ?
Thanks in advance guys 🙏🏻

[pacman91]

Originally Posted by Zak123

Hey !
​​I'm a Moroccan cadet pilot I'm holding the residence permit "Permesso di soggiorno per motivi familiari" in Italy and I'm planning to apply for ryanair air or wizz air from Italy, as we all know they require the "unrestricted right to live and work in EU".
Is my residence permit "Permesso di soggiorno per motivi familiari" enough for their condition ?
Thanks in advance guys 🙏🏻

I wonder what happened with your situation ? Did they hire you ?

[MarTaq]

Originally Posted by Zak123

Hey !
​​I'm a Moroccan cadet pilot I'm holding the residence permit "Permesso di soggiorno per motivi familiari" in Italy and I'm planning to apply for ryanair air or wizz air from Italy, as we all know they require the "unrestricted right to live and work in EU".
Is my residence permit "Permesso di soggiorno per motivi familiari" enough for their condition ?
Thanks in advance guys 🙏🏻

Ciao! I was also going through the same situation, unfortunately you need to have an EU Passport for a what so called ''right to live and work in the eu'' residence permit like short or Long Term ones like ''Lungo Periodo'' do not grant you the right to work freely in another EU Country so my best advice is either try to find other options outside the EU or try to find local Airlines like Air Dolomiti I remember that they were asking only for a Permesso. Others Wizz or Ryanair want an EU passport. Hope my answer helps!

[tervalentaja]

How about setting up a sole trader company in the EU country of your residence and work as self employed? Say you live in Germany with a residence permit with no restrictions and you provide services (piloting) to say Ryanair through your company in the form of self employment.

Will that not tackle the “unrestricted right to work and live in the EU” requirement?

[nomilk]

Originally Posted by tervalentaja

How about setting up a sole trader company in the EU country of your residence and work as self employed? Say you live in Germany with a residence permit with no restrictions and you provide services (piloting) to say Ryanair through your company in the form of self employment.

Will that not be the “unrestricted right to work and live in the EU” requirement?

German law has strict rules regarding self-employment (as do probably all EU states). You would be the employer and the only employee in a field that is highly regulated. As an employee of your self-employment (since being a pilot is not a freelance occupation in Germany), you would still not have the right to do the work yourself within the EU. But you as an employer could hire someone with that right.

[sow.amadou2003]

Originally Posted by Zak123

Hey !
​​I'm a Moroccan cadet pilot I'm holding the residence permit "Permesso di soggiorno per motivi familiari"

Hey I'm in the same situation as you , did you end up getting a job in Europe? ( I hope you did )

[henry6024]

hi guys some knowledge about myself I'm 28 and a BRITISH CITIZEN now I did my ATPL INTERGATED in GREECE global aviation.sa graduated and got my EASA LICENSE in 2016 at the time I was 18. And hadn't found a job applied to a few companies but didn't get in from 2 airlines then about 2019 I decided to see if there were any opportunities as there were not a lot of job positions for cadet pilots as every company has their cadet pools so went through a hard process of deciding my type rating on the 737NG at the time there we a lot of job availabilities "before the whole max incident" I did my type rating in Lithuania with BAA training. when I finished my TR and went to credit it to my license in December of 2019 the pandemic derailed the whole thing from then I have been working around to keep my license up to date and TR. I tried applying to some companies but it got increasingly harder ever since Brexit a lot of companies require you to have an EU passport or resident permit which I can't get and the hard thing is there are a lot of jobs now I could but I am missing the EU requirement.
does anyone know where I could apply in the UK or anywhere?

please help!!!!!

[sow.amadou2003]

Originally Posted by henry6024

hi ever since Brexit a lot of companies require you to have an EU passport or resident permit which I can't get and the hard thing is there are a lot of jobs now I could but I am missing the EU requirement.
does anyone know where I could apply in the UK or anywhere?
please help!!!!!

Hey , I think residence permit is actually not enough. you'll need EU citizenship for companies like Ryanair or wizz air . I have a permanent residence permit but apparently it's not enough .
I hope someone answers though so i know if i should start flight school or not.....