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737 command or long haul FO

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737 command or long haul FO

Old 16th Jun 2019, 18:09
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737 command or long haul FO

Hi all,

I am 24 now and could go for command in Ryanair in about 18 months' time. I have hardly travelled or seen much of the world and kind of feel like I am missing out on life and the experience long haul pilots seem to get; the "catch me if you can" lifestyle, if you will.

On the other hand, trying to get command in a company I know well seems like a safer, more prudent choice. Good money, stability and valuable hours are on the table.

I realise this subject has been approached here a few times but the situation is different for everyone and it would be helpful, I think, to see some arguments for and against - my mind seems to have exhausted all pros and cons.

Thank you.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 10:50
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My concept of "travelling" is a bit different from what you do with your crew in layover honestly.
I`d prefer to plan my trip in my holidays and I`d like to spend time with friends or loved ones instead of my colleagues chatting at the all inclusive bar.
As for the experience, long haul is definetely a different challenge, but considering you`ll be soon offered a command place, I would definitely stay there.
You`re 24 man, you have time to travel and on your own..
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 12:47
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I always found the advice on this subject fell into two camps;

Always take the command

and

Always take the bigger aeroplane

It's a choice only you can make, whatever you do and wherever you go next you will never see the same roster pattern ever again.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 15:41
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Go for the best employer in a location that you want to be. You are only 24. You can grow fat in the left seat for years to come.

Somehow I doubt RYR is the best employer. If it was, you would not get your command as rapidly.

I have some friends who forked out the TQ and went for Ryanair. Got abused for years on end and were send from base to base. They either got command fast or went to Emirates and are now in their command training. The ones who went for command in Ryanair either went to China or went to certain European locos without collective labour agreements. By far most of them are complaining.

I went for a company with a long seniority list, CLA, pension scheme, part time option, union. Obviously it is not all rainbows and unicorns over here, and I do not get paid as much as most of them yet. And I am still sitting in the right hand seat for some 5 more years. But at least I can live where I (or actually my wife) wants to live. I can mostly organize my personal life. My kids grow up in Western Europe.

Again, you are only 24. Try to get into a respected carrier. Choose long term.




Last edited by SaulGoodman; 18th Jun 2019 at 15:54.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 16:29
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Originally Posted by scenicflyer View Post
Hi all,

I am 24 now and could go for command in Ryanair in about 18 months' time. I have hardly travelled or seen much of the world and kind of feel like I am missing out on life and the experience long haul pilots seem to get; the "catch me if you can" lifestyle, if you will.

On the other hand, trying to get command in a company I know well seems like a safer, more prudent choice. Good money, stability and valuable hours are on the table.

I realise this subject has been approached here a few times but the situation is different for everyone and it would be helpful, I think, to see some arguments for and against - my mind seems to have exhausted all pros and cons.

Thank you.
I doubt you have come to the right place to ask for advice. As you can see it is full of haters here or people who talk absolutely nonsense like Saul Goodman .
Take your command and use your holidays to go travelling as anto125 said and spend time near your loved ones.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 16:36
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Originally Posted by BoeingLudo737 View Post
I doubt you have come to the right place to ask for advice. As you can see it is full of haters here or people who talk absolutely nonsense like Saul Goodman .
Take your command and use your holidays to go travelling as anto125 said and spend time near your loved ones.
hi Ludo,

first of all your link links to another Saul Goodman.

second: what is absolute nonsense? I believe if you are 24 and have 2000+ hours on a 737 you are on pole position to apply for a career airline. Left seat will come in due time. Why stay in RYR when companies with unions/benefits/pension etc are also hiring! They might not be soon enough..
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 16:49
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post


hi Ludo,

first of all your link links to another Saul Goodman.

second: what is absolute nonsense? I believe if you are 24 and have 2000+ hours on a 737 you are on pole position to apply for a career airline. Left seat will come in due time. Why stay in RYR when companies with unions/benefits/pension etc are also hiring! They might not be soon enough..
Where have you been for the last 12 months or more? RYR has unions and all the stuff you mentioned so get your facts right before talking nonsense
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 18:37
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Really appreciate all the responses so far. Saul, would you consider Qatar a "career airline", as you put it?

Ludo, I am still a contractor ("self employed") and have no protection whatsoever. I have asked to be put onto a real employment contract to no avail. Sure, Ryanair has become much better than, say, 10 years ago, but they still have plenty of nasty tricks up their sleeves. Not saying it's great everywhere else (most certainly not, RYR is a better place to be than many) but there is still vast room for improvement here.
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 21:39
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These Ryanair fanboys... They are just like Apple fanboys!
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 22:36
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Ludo, the majority is not on direct employment nor will be any time soon. So I stand by my point.

I would definitely not consider QR a career airline! If that is your longhaul option please consider it carefully. Money is good, 777 is awesome but it is not a place where I would like to live long term. If you consider it, visit it before you resign from RYR. In fact. I would rather work for RYR as a contractor then go to Doha. But everyone is different....
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 08:40
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Originally Posted by Banana Joe View Post
These Ryanair fanboys... They are just like Apple fanboys!
what do you mean exactly?
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 09:02
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Originally Posted by scenicflyer View Post
Really appreciate all the responses so far. Saul, would you consider Qatar a "career airline", as you put it?

Ludo, I am still a contractor ("self employed") and have no protection whatsoever. I have asked to be put onto a real employment contract to no avail. Sure, Ryanair has become much better than, say, 10 years ago, but they still have plenty of nasty tricks up their sleeves. Not saying it's great everywhere else (most certainly not, RYR is a better place to be than many) but there is still vast room for improvement here.
Where are you based?
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 19:43
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England! How come?
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 07:54
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try to get into Virgin...
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 12:39
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Anyone who has worked for a decent employer, will see Ryanair for what they are. Look beside you, do you wanna be stuck in the left seat of a Ryanair aircraft, not really travelling, not connecting with people and feeling miserable about how the company treats you? Great, you can call yourself a captain and you’ll get paid, sure. But I haven’t seen such a negative place to be in my entire working life. You’re 24, I’d take the jump because command will come eventually. Good luck with whatever you decide!

Last edited by Raph737; 20th Jun 2019 at 14:59.
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 13:09
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24, with that amount of hours... I wish I was you. I would say never turn down a command offer, but you can move to the left seat in less than 10 years with some heavy experience under the belt and further improve your decision-making skills. Look at options you have available in the long haul segment and if you are thinking of applying to any Middle Eastern operator, do your duly research, visit the place and try to interpret most of the messages you read on PPRuNe.

Virgin Atlantic seems to be one of the best kept secrets in aviation, but at a Wizz Air assessment there was this guy only 3 years away from command on the Boeing fleet and he just hates long haul.
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 17:27
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Originally Posted by Raph737 View Post
Anyone who has worked for a decent employer, will see Ryanair for what they are. Look beside you, do you wanna be stuck in the left seat of a Ryanair aircraft, not really travelling, not connecting with people and feeling miserable about how the company treats you? Great, you can call yourself a captain and youíll get paid, sure. But I havenít seen such a negative place to be in my entire working life. Youíre 24, Iíd take the jump because command will come eventually. Good luck with whatever you decide!
You should leave if you are not happy, I am sure nobody forced you to join Ryanair.
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 17:44
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Originally Posted by BoeingLudo737 View Post
You should leave if you are not happy, I am sure nobody forced you to join Ryanair.
You are a bit of a fanboy arenít you? I am leaving, was fortunate enough to get to move to a proper airline very soon! My notice was given and really looking forward to be away from either young , know it all, blind eyed FOís who think that THIS should be the standard in aviation. Most importantly, captains who absolutely hate the company, its colleagues and had enough of flying. Being on the right hand seat getting abused by people who refused to admit they should have done more to improve their work life, like this chap at 24 is contemplating.
There are CRM issues, there is very little regards towards the cabin crew who are treated appallingly. There is no support or guidance for base transfers and most of the time you're left to your own devices. They offer you nothing where there are plenty of places who at the very least will provide the very basic to do your job...
By all means bring your staplers, food, water, pay for your IDís, car park, thatís your thing..
Youíll get to see all of those amazing places you travel too for 25mins, and on your days off youíre too tired to do real travelling, as it has been mentioned. Even the staff travel perks, blue tickets you have to pay to select seats...
Sorry excuse of an airline if you want my opinion. But each one to their own. If I was 24 and had those hours, Iíd be trying Virgin, 4 days in the beach with a great bunch of people or four sector day with a miserable cheese? No brainer.
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 17:52
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Originally Posted by Raph737 View Post


You are a bit of a fanboy arenít you? I am leaving, was fortunate enough to get to move to a proper airline very soon! My notice was given and really looking forward to be away from either young , know it all, blind eyed FOís who think that THIS should be the standard in aviation. Most importantly, captains who absolutely hate the company, its colleagues and had enough of flying. Being on the right hand seat getting abused by people who refused to admit they should have done more to improve their work life, like this chap at 24 is contemplating.
There are CRM issues, there is very little regards towards the cabin crew who are treated appallingly. There is no support or guidance for base transfers and most of the time you're left to your own devices. They offer you nothing where there are plenty of places who at the very least will provide the very basic to do your job...
By all means bring your staplers, food, water, pay for your IDís, car park, thatís your thing..
Youíll get to see all of those amazing places you travel too for 25mins, and on your days off youíre too tired to do real travelling, as it has been mentioned. Even the staff travel perks, blue tickets you have to pay to select seats...
Sorry excuse of an airline if you want my opinion. But each one to their own. If I was 24 and had those hours, Iíd be trying Virgin, 4 days in the beach with a great bunch of people or four sector day with a miserable cheese? No brainer.
You are a moany boy aren't you? I wouldn't even give you a job in McDonald with that attitude. Sorry for the airline who is giving you a job. Moany people never change
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Old 20th Jun 2019, 18:01
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Originally Posted by BoeingLudo737 View Post
You are a moany boy aren't you? I wouldn't even give you a job in McDonald with that attitude. Sorry for the airline who is giving you a job. Moany people never change
Attitude? Hahaha yeah absolutely, we all have read your adult response to the initial question, yet one brings ďattitudeĒ...va bene!

I wouldnít apply sir, believe my skills are better suited elsewhere. Who eats that crap anyway? Yes, I have worked for better employers so I have basis for comparison, my prerogative. Now suit yourself.
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