Interviews, jobs & sponsorship The forum where interviews, job offers and selection criteria can be discussed and exchanged.

BAA Pay to Fly

Old 19th Sep 2017, 00:41
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by Thegreenmachine View Post
In terms of % profit margin I don't suppose there is a great deal of difference between say, L3 and BAA.
You were making good sense up until this ...
Officer Kite is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2017, 07:26
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: England
Posts: 76
Don't think for one second because you are paying less money that you are not being profited from just as much. It's a mute point really but I'm willing to bet L3/Cae actually make less per student than others in terms of gross margin. Their advantage comes with the quantity. They (Cae globally) can pump out upwards of 50+ cadets per month when times are good. A quick check on companies house will tell you CAE made 1mill operating loss 2015/2016! No doubt due to lack of students in 2014/5.
Thegreenmachine is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2017, 15:24
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dubai
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by ZFT View Post
In your opinion, how much should they charge then?
Actually, my question should have been "what are they & their airline partners doing to make their courses more affordable/accessible?"
Basil Fawlty1 is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2017, 19:39
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by kobenhavn View Post
Age you guys talking about BAA or aviation CV ?
Good question, BAA is part of same group as aviation CV, Avia Solutions Group. And no one bigger for p2f in Europe then aviation CV! They advertise at least several p2f offers at any given time!

Hence BAA is as bad as anyone!
Shutdownatpl is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2017, 21:02
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 14
I don't understand. Why are people blaming BAA? I thought P2F was about the "employee" paying the "employer" to work... what does the flight school have anything to do with it? It's like blaming your local university because Microsoft asked you to pay for your internship. Am I missing something here?

At the very least, BAA benefits from the type rating and other courses you'd need before you can P2F, but then again, nobody forced you to go and work for a P2F airline...
Nurse2Pilot is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2017, 07:50
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: England
Posts: 76
Sorry but that's not correct at all.

BAA is the medium through which you get into a pay-to-fly. They see nothing wrong with it which is their prerogative but it's virtually indefensible imo.

The employer, in your analogy simply advertises through BAA to find the employee, who stumps up the cash for a job. These people deny potentially better candidates who don't see it necessary to pay 30-50-70k(???), a job.
Thegreenmachine is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2017, 08:39
  #27 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 758
Yeah they are both to blame , just another grab for cash.

I take it that many of you are just starting out your careers , don't shoot yourselves in the foot. Take a stand against all kinds of pay to work and low paying conditions.

Quite sad to see EK and CX in shambles . Maybe I'm naive enough to think we can change it together
pfvspnf is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2017, 08:46
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 14
I see... So BAA is like the recruitment company? So the negativity is coming from "why did they agree to do this??"

But even so, why is the blame seemingly on BAA alone? Which company is advertising P2F through BAA right now? Which airlines have had P2F schemes?
Nurse2Pilot is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2017, 15:14
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 662
Thing is, it depends on how you dress it up.

Many 'honourable' western carriers have run programmes, and continue to do so, whereby the candidate is required to pay extortionate sums for their type rating.

That extortionate sum covers the type rating, all line training, as well as a small profit for the airline. But that's not pay2fly is it?

Interesting
Officer Kite is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 01:04
  #30 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 758
ABY does this , and yes it's pay to fly .

Wouldn't be suprised if BAA starts offering Pay to fly for command as well
pfvspnf is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 01:59
  #31 (permalink)  
ZFT
N4790P
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 69
Posts: 1,945
Originally Posted by Basil Fawlty1 View Post
Actually, my question should have been "what are they & their airline partners doing to make their courses more affordable/accessible?"
That's ducking the question
ZFT is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 11:47
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 37
suppose buying 500hrs on a320 to start flying is considered unethical? What happens after that? Will one be able to secure a job having the mandatory 500 hours (which is for insurance purposes i hear) suffice?
the prospect of being nearly 40 after training not having much hope especially where the market is flooded with 20 somethings completed training with their parents help or taken massive loans without a hint of reality of repaying for their ab-initio?
the question remains, how one get the first job after training.
maybe there's a need for the employers to re-think their approach for considering their future pilot employees and not just concentrating on putting a 20 year old on a 40 year pathway plan where most likely a lot of them would leave to greater pastures. #wishful-thinking

Last edited by wassupman; 5th Jan 2018 at 12:37.
wassupman is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 12:40
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: egll
Posts: 323
It would seem there aren't that many willing to sign up to p2f schemes. Companies who historically always ran them in place of preselected non p2f cadets are now opening up cadet programmes because there aren't enough joining their p2f programmes post CPL/IR. Small planet and Avion Express though still have kept their p2f programmes for CPL/IR holders though for the few that are interested.
momo95 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.