Easyjet Scholarship for Women...
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Jumbo - at first glance I was very surprised you asked that, however on hindsight maybe it does need further explanation.
Flying a commercial plane these days is not hard at all, if you work hard during your TR and stay on top of things. However, working in a team and 'commanding' the aircraft is not easy. I argue that iv become a better pilot by watching and learning from other people, different to me. Also they can tell me when iv done something wrong as I may not be aware. The diversity in the FD makes people approach situations differently, question current practises (so looking for better solutions) and of course different people work differently in a team. All these different people I learn from on a daily basis, which make me a better pilot. Does a football team want 11 goalkeepers? Studies show that people from similar backgrounds approach problems in a similar way. Not good if your looking to develop.
Although a valid question to ask why a FD needs diversity, I feel those that question this, miss the essence of flying commercially today and the realities of the global nature of the job. As I said At the start of this post, commercial flying is not hard but the role/responsibilities of an airline pilot can be. Once you grasp this, you've understood why the flight deck needs diversity.
Flying a commercial plane these days is not hard at all, if you work hard during your TR and stay on top of things. However, working in a team and 'commanding' the aircraft is not easy. I argue that iv become a better pilot by watching and learning from other people, different to me. Also they can tell me when iv done something wrong as I may not be aware. The diversity in the FD makes people approach situations differently, question current practises (so looking for better solutions) and of course different people work differently in a team. All these different people I learn from on a daily basis, which make me a better pilot. Does a football team want 11 goalkeepers? Studies show that people from similar backgrounds approach problems in a similar way. Not good if your looking to develop.
Although a valid question to ask why a FD needs diversity, I feel those that question this, miss the essence of flying commercially today and the realities of the global nature of the job. As I said At the start of this post, commercial flying is not hard but the role/responsibilities of an airline pilot can be. Once you grasp this, you've understood why the flight deck needs diversity.
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FLYINGPERCY
I've read your post with great interest and I agree with you. Could I borrow your reference for that super quote please? A book reference, would be most appreciated. I wound this though Culturosity Article: What is Cultural Awareness? Thanks for this and more.
Studies show that people from similar backgrounds approach problems in a similar way. Not good if your looking to develop.
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Chesty - the FD needs diversity full stop. So its a balance. But to answer your question - why females? Each different group of people including females bring different things, so I can learn about new situations without having experienced them and DEVELOP. Having previously worked in an office that basically employs mirror images of themselves, I can honestly say the firm was very one dimensional. Lacked good innovative solutions and I knew how they were to solve a problem without them talking. One day a new, very different person (background/female) came into this very male dominate environment. Suffice to say things changed. Why? she came with a different way of approaching things and dare I say it a more measured approach. We know what a group of guys can be like - one upmanship and pushing the boundaries. The new women in the office altered and importantly highlighted the wrong direction the firm was taking, provided a different way of working and so added massive value. I welcome that to the FD. This is one example. I could used a different person.
Notice my example is not flying related, but very relevant to the FD. Kind of pertinent to this discussion?
Btw-as there's been a bit of thread drift, I'm not convinced about the scholarship, just that it's important to highlight a flying career is an option to all.
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Company direction and maximising potential are jobs for management.
The thing you're missing is we don't get to choose the way we do things. That's down to management. We get a bunch of SOPs and management tools and we are taught how to use them in a fairly stringent way so it doesn't matter if you're male or female.
There is no pushing of boundaries and there is no one upmanship in the flight deck.
The thing you're missing is we don't get to choose the way we do things. That's down to management. We get a bunch of SOPs and management tools and we are taught how to use them in a fairly stringent way so it doesn't matter if you're male or female.
There is no pushing of boundaries and there is no one upmanship in the flight deck.
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We have SOPs and management tools in the (male-dominated) industry I work in too, but the way these are implemented varies somewhat dependent on the backgrounds, personality traits and team dynamic involved.
The real benefits of diversity are highlighted when a situation arises that is not covered by SOP or the SOP is found to be unfit for purpose at that particular moment, for whatever reason. I'm not saying that my male colleagues can't think outside the box too, but it's moments like these that they usually let me take the lead!
But I still don't agree that a women-only scholarship or loan scheme is the answer.
The real benefits of diversity are highlighted when a situation arises that is not covered by SOP or the SOP is found to be unfit for purpose at that particular moment, for whatever reason. I'm not saying that my male colleagues can't think outside the box too, but it's moments like these that they usually let me take the lead!
But I still don't agree that a women-only scholarship or loan scheme is the answer.
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No we don't choose, but we should challenge if we disagree. We won't challenge things if we don't have a different viewpoint. How do we formulate different views - by talking to people with different viewpoints to ours and ways of approaching things. That's what diversity brings -- a different way of approaching things, it's a known fact. That's called progression and development. How many times have you got a notac and interpreted it a different way to someone else?
Also senior management needs to be diverse, to ensure that our SOP's adapt and are challenged too. It's a company wide
By having females on the FD, enhances the above. It's not a solution on its own. You surely can't be arguing against diversity on the FD? Diversity includes everyone, it's just that this thread is looking at women in the FD, hence my specific comments regard the benefit of women in the FD. I'd make the same comments if it was titled: 'the benefit of 40+year old 'male' cadets in the FD'
Lastly - on the oneupmanship we will have to disagree. Btw I work for a company with very strict SOP's.
Now contrary to the above, I rarely post on here. I enjoy reading comments, but thought I'd write my opinion on this topic. This forum has a habit of people going round in circles, arguing their point. So I'm going to call it a day and let others have their say. I think you can see my view.
I look forward to reading other people's views/thoughts which may completely disagree with mine, and will read them with interest.
Also senior management needs to be diverse, to ensure that our SOP's adapt and are challenged too. It's a company wide
By having females on the FD, enhances the above. It's not a solution on its own. You surely can't be arguing against diversity on the FD? Diversity includes everyone, it's just that this thread is looking at women in the FD, hence my specific comments regard the benefit of women in the FD. I'd make the same comments if it was titled: 'the benefit of 40+year old 'male' cadets in the FD'
Lastly - on the oneupmanship we will have to disagree. Btw I work for a company with very strict SOP's.
Now contrary to the above, I rarely post on here. I enjoy reading comments, but thought I'd write my opinion on this topic. This forum has a habit of people going round in circles, arguing their point. So I'm going to call it a day and let others have their say. I think you can see my view.
I look forward to reading other people's views/thoughts which may completely disagree with mine, and will read them with interest.
de minimus non curat lex
The issue is attracting more women onto the flight deck (FD)
It has been suggested that women are not aware of flying as a career.
I am not entirely sure this can be correct, as women probably still account for the majority of cabin crew (CC) , and must therefore be aware that a FD exists.
So what is it that results in such a poor take up from women for the FD?
Identify that and you are part of the way to understanding this issues.
What is interesting, is the increasing number of women going into medicine.
So how has the recruiting process changed to result in this transformation?
Update: I have asked a similar Q to the medics in their section.
It has been suggested that women are not aware of flying as a career.
I am not entirely sure this can be correct, as women probably still account for the majority of cabin crew (CC) , and must therefore be aware that a FD exists.
So what is it that results in such a poor take up from women for the FD?
Identify that and you are part of the way to understanding this issues.
What is interesting, is the increasing number of women going into medicine.
So how has the recruiting process changed to result in this transformation?
Update: I have asked a similar Q to the medics in their section.
Last edited by parkfell; 16th Feb 2016 at 07:55. Reason: Update...
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Chesty,
I have to ask why you keep asking
I don't think there is anything wrong with anyone, be that a man or woman, wanting diversity in his or her workplace. A mixed gender work environment adds something - I don't know what, but it just does. In my current role i'd hate to work in an environment where women were excluded or not encouraged.
I have to ask why you keep asking
I don't think there is anything wrong with anyone, be that a man or woman, wanting diversity in his or her workplace. A mixed gender work environment adds something - I don't know what, but it just does. In my current role i'd hate to work in an environment where women were excluded or not encouraged.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Ok, woman aren't excluded from the flight deck at all, it is already a mixed gender environment.
Your implication that I think diversity is wrong is wrong.
I keep asking because I want to know why attracting women to the flight deck is an issue. If they wanted to be there they would be.
Your implication that I think diversity is wrong is wrong.
I keep asking because I want to know why attracting women to the flight deck is an issue. If they wanted to be there they would be.
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Chesty,
Then in that case I apologise if it came across that way it was never the reason for my posting. But you are correct they would be there if they 'could' I suspect.. as I would if I 'could'.. but as finances dictate at this time it's near impossible.
Then in that case I apologise if it came across that way it was never the reason for my posting. But you are correct they would be there if they 'could' I suspect.. as I would if I 'could'.. but as finances dictate at this time it's near impossible.
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Indeed, full circle. But I wonder if it is just for girls?? As speaking with BBVA of late they seem incredibly reluctant to discuss airline deals but agree they have them in place. I do remember the rumour mill on here churning out EZY funding candidates soon, so perhaps they only wanted to publicise female support at the minute.
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gbotley, apology accepted.
I'd rather nobody had to shell out six figure sums to get a job. It does prevent ably qualified people getting into the industry, male or female.
I'd rather nobody had to shell out six figure sums to get a job. It does prevent ably qualified people getting into the industry, male or female.
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Why don't more girls apply to pilot training schemes? Can't answer for others but my reasons are as follows:
1) When I was a footloose and fancy free high school leaver, having a good degree behind me seemed like the most important thing for future job prospects, so university trumped flying school. Too sensible!
2) When I left university, no way could I (or my parents) afford to put me through flying school, so a well-paid, stable career was the focus. Too sensible!
3) Having had a well-paid, stable career for a few years I can now afford to put myself through flying school. But now I am also a wife and a mother, so it's not just about me any more. I have a really supportive family but there is no way I would choose to leave them for months at a time to go flying in Florida or NZ, not to mention risk their financial security. And why would I give up a great job, great family and social life and great hobby flying to be at the mercy of the likes of Easyjet? Too sensible!
I've had people say that maybe I'm not passionate about flying and that if I really, REALLY wanted it then I'd have sacrificed all of the above to achieve the dream, but I disagree. I love flying so much that it doesn't matter what I end up flying, the buzz is just being up there. I don't need an airliner, if I get stuck doing 90kts in a tin can for the rest of my days then so be it.
1) When I was a footloose and fancy free high school leaver, having a good degree behind me seemed like the most important thing for future job prospects, so university trumped flying school. Too sensible!
2) When I left university, no way could I (or my parents) afford to put me through flying school, so a well-paid, stable career was the focus. Too sensible!
3) Having had a well-paid, stable career for a few years I can now afford to put myself through flying school. But now I am also a wife and a mother, so it's not just about me any more. I have a really supportive family but there is no way I would choose to leave them for months at a time to go flying in Florida or NZ, not to mention risk their financial security. And why would I give up a great job, great family and social life and great hobby flying to be at the mercy of the likes of Easyjet? Too sensible!
I've had people say that maybe I'm not passionate about flying and that if I really, REALLY wanted it then I'd have sacrificed all of the above to achieve the dream, but I disagree. I love flying so much that it doesn't matter what I end up flying, the buzz is just being up there. I don't need an airliner, if I get stuck doing 90kts in a tin can for the rest of my days then so be it.
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So what that boils down to is women are different to men.
1 and 2 can be applied equally to both men and woman but not many blokes want to stay at home and be a mother like you and I think most women would rather be mothers than pilots.
It's genetic, it's imprinted and you can't change it by chucking money at it.
1 and 2 can be applied equally to both men and woman but not many blokes want to stay at home and be a mother like you and I think most women would rather be mothers than pilots.
It's genetic, it's imprinted and you can't change it by chucking money at it.
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Littlesthobo - Your last post, is in my opinion excellent. You've highlighted the conflict between reality and ambition.
I hope more people read it, and see how you have at each stage you've assessed your options and made a decision, without sacrificing the things you value. I hope in the future a way can be found to accommodate people like you (male and female) so you and others have a viable option to enter the industry with the issues you describe (I have no answers though..) as based on your mature way of approaching things and life experience you'd be a real asset.
Sorry for the thread drift...
I hope more people read it, and see how you have at each stage you've assessed your options and made a decision, without sacrificing the things you value. I hope in the future a way can be found to accommodate people like you (male and female) so you and others have a viable option to enter the industry with the issues you describe (I have no answers though..) as based on your mature way of approaching things and life experience you'd be a real asset.
Sorry for the thread drift...