easyJet 2016

[dannybuckley8]

ChrisD93:

Hi Chris, I am floating in the same "cliche and unknowing" boat as you. I like you have the same dream and have decided to go through with the application hoping I would discover whether this is a good idea or not when the time came around.

I assume like yourself, I have been keeping myself updated on here and with EZY and CTC updates but am still undecided whether I should play the waiting game or pay the £292 fees and go to an interview day!

Could anyone please sway me either way. If I am lucky enough to receive an interview day offer should I go? Why is that? If not, also why is that?

Thank you for your help, any advice will be appreciated as I am unknown whether I should be happy or not with an offer

[EZY_FR]

I'd go; it's excellent interview practice at the very least. Despite the high initial outlay, it's still one of the better schemes out there.

[sosu89]

I have similar thoughts ChrisD93. I applied last year and did not make it. This year I reapplied again and will be doing the assessment next week.

Did anyone know how many cadets they are looking for OAA/CTC?

Moreover, did anyone sit for the Oxford Assessment? any feedback is highly appreciate.

Cheers

[ManUtd1999]

Just to put the counter argument to EZY_FR, valid though his points are, I'd wait. EZY will almost certainly be running a similar scheme in the future, so why not give it a year and have a shot at BA/Virgin/EI? If you don't make it, then there's EZY to have a go at next year. With an Engineering degree you'll have a good chance of getting a job in the meantime so waiting a year or two wouldn't be that much of an issue.

[Kermo Kermit]

I agree with ManUtd1999, it is true that the easyJet MPL is a better route into the industry that self-sponsoring through CTC but in comparison to the Virgin Atlantic / BA FPP there is no contest. I would apply at least twice to both schemes before thinking about easyJet and their MPL. If you are going to apply then CTC is 10 times better than OAA, there are major tax advantages to the CTC scheme. There are several reasons behind why I think this:

• The finance: In the long-term BA / Virgin/ AL will cost you nothing except living expenses. With easyJet its going to cost you 100k plus living expenses which if you have a loan is going to have to be returned with considerable interest.
• It's no secret that easyJet are short of crew for their Portuguese bases so quite a few of the cadets will likely end up their, remember that this year CTC are not guarantying a British base. With BA / VA this will never happen, its Heathrow or Gatwick.
• It's an MPL not ATPL. This is fine is you want to spend your entire career at easyJet but if you want to transfer to BA and others then this is going to be a dis-advantage because the ATPL training is widly considered to be a better quality of training. Remember that the BA FPP is an ATPL, they haven't changed to the MPL although VA is an MPL.

Also, any work experience beyond school /uni will help with the application process so having a year or two in industry is never a bad thing.


Just for the record I'm not trying to put people off but I think that having read this forum for a few years there is sometimes a lack of reality about how hard it is to pay back 100k, it's a lot of money. Anyway, hope this helps somebody.

[ChrisD93]

Hi Kermo and everyone else who was kind enough to reply,

I think at this stage the smart thing to do is hold on until the BA and VA schemes open, as I'm yet to have a shot at applying for them. It's just really tempting at this stage as I'm looking for engineering graduate jobs to go for the easyjet MPL alternative.

The fact that BA offer an ATPL alone (for almost free in the long term) is the major factor for me as I don't come from an affluent enough background to easily risk 109k for CTC training; and if it's for an MPL, is it really worth the risk? Especially with the flexitime contract and no guarantee that you will be given a permanent FO contract.

The one thing that is for certain though is that I want to be a pilot, and I'll never give up on that dream. As I've tried to pick the best/most relevant route possible for me so far to get there (studying Aeronautical engineering, some gliding experience); I was close to applying this time, but I think I'm jumping the gun a little bit by at least another year.

Thanks guys for your help and good luck to all those applying this year! I'm sure I'll be back on here for the FPP forum chat although I have no idea when that'll be; hopefully it's early next year

[EcamSurprise]

If you are going to apply then CTC is 10 times better than OAA, there are major tax advantages to the CTC scheme.

There are huge tax advantages of going through Parc also. A huge chunk of the training cost is counted as an expense and therefore reduces your tax hugely (almost to 0).

The finance: In the long-term BA / Virgin/ AL will cost you nothing except living expenses. With easyJet its going to cost you 100k plus living expenses which if you have a loan is going to have to be returned with considerable interest.

True. Don't burden yourself with a loan if there is another option.
Although why anyone would want to be a cruise pilot for XX years is beyond me.

It's no secret that easyJet are short of crew for their Portuguese bases so quite a few of the cadets will likely end up their, remember that this year CTC are not guarantying a British base.

EJ is short of crew in all bases, not just LIS / OPO.
CTC has never based anyone, on flexi, outside of the UK and the only place which has flexicrew (Parc) is Berlin.
The risk could be BCN as this is a new contract and unknown it terms of flexi.

It's an MPL not ATPL. This is fine is you want to spend your entire career at easyJet but if you want to transfer to BA and others then this is going to be a dis-advantage because the ATPL training is widly considered to be a better quality of training.

This makes NO difference at all anymore.

I have a number of friends who left EJ to go to BA with a MPL and <1000 hours. It made no difference to their recruitment or training.
The ONLY thing the airline needs to recruit pilots who still hold an MPL is a sentence in their OM stating that it is an acceptable licence. BA, as an example, have this.

If you wanted to go to someone else (Emirates, Virgin etc) then you'll have an ATPL anyway.
The idea you get an ATPL from BA is misleading. You get a CPL & IR (commonly known as a frozen ATPL) and this can be converted at 1400TT to an ATPL in exactly the same way an MPL can be converted to an ATPL at the same hours.

ATPL training being considered as better quality is also outdated. It's all the same.
Frankly you know nothing when you start flying big Airbi around at 150 hours and it doesn't matter much whether you have spent the time bombing around in a single prop or spending some extra time in a sim. Overall the feedback from regarding the MPL cadets is often better than the traditional cadets.

However, If I was going to someone like Virgin with an MPL then I WOULD be worried. If you are made redundant (look into how they often lay off the latest recruitment - it happens) then you WILL struggle to find another job with an MPL. It's easier when you go out hunting for the job yourself rather than a whole bunch of you floating in the same pool at the same time with a 'special' licence. I also don't know why anyone would want to be a cruise pilot for 2 - 3 years.

------

To give you an insight:

Overall EJ is a very good company to work for.

The contracts available long term are fantastic and the flexi / SO / FO contracts are good stepping stones.
THe 0 hour contract notion is fairly pointless also.
I, and my colleagues who I speak to now, made more as a flexi crew than I do currently as a European SFO and I am paid very very nicely currently.
We get rewarded well too with loyalty / performance bonuses (*) plus I've received shares every year due to the company performance.
(*)= subject to contract and where you are.

It's a great place to work and the flying is good fun too. The main thing for me is I come home every night and I can tell you my roster pattern for years to come as I'm on 5453. I'm also in the command process currently and I've been here for about 5 years.

It really depends on what sort of flying you enjoy doing. Personally I find flights over 4 hours a struggle and long haul wouldn't suit me. I also hate spending nights away from my own bed and I really hated nightstops even when they were 2 or 3 times a month in a previous base.

Of course there are ups and downs but there is in any job and in any company. The grass is always greener as they say.

You should always try to get into the industry with as little debt as possible but EJ should be way up on your options in terms of lifestyle, flying and career.

If you want to know more then PM me.
Just be careful with what you read on forums like these are a lot of the information is incorrect or the people posting just have an axe to grind.

Good luck.

[Global_Global]

Kermo agree on the BA/VS versus Easy assessment but there is one major mistake in your train of thoughts:

• It's an MPL not ATPL. This is fine is you want to spend your entire career at easyJet but if you want to transfer to BA and others then this is going to be a dis-advantage because the ATPL training is widly considered to be a better quality of training. Remember that the BA FPP is an ATPL, they haven't changed to the MPL although VA is an MPL.

Totally wrong and it will be clear in the near future as BA is also considering moving to the MPL ... MPL is considered to be better than ATPL although the way CTC does the ATPL with crew coordination, sim use etc the syllabus is already close to being MPL

[EZY_FR]

BA will NOT be moving to the MPL anytime soon. Regs in Spain mean its impossible to run an MPL scheme at FTE, meaning that Flybe and Aer Lingus had to withdraw their plans to run MPL courses.

[EcamSurprise]

Flybe have been taking MPL cadets for years..

Whether BA runs their own MPL courses or not is irrelevant for recruitment. They accept MPL licenses and so you can make a move, if you desire, from EJ to BA whilst you don't yet have an ATPL. You are, by no means, stuck for your whole career as someone alluded to.

The MPL vs Traditional route has been much debated. There are pluses and minuses of both.
Ultimately you come to an airline from both routes with minimal experience. The key to success as a brand new cadet in an airline is down to attitude and your willingness to listen and learn NOT whether you have an MPL or a CPL.

(And yes, we see a number of folks coming into the airlines with 140 hours who think they already know everything. It's been both MPL cadets and fATPL cadets. And these are the ones who have issues).

[EZY_FR]

Flybe were recruiting MPL cadets, but those cadets had to have their courses converted into Integrated ATPL courses.

[EcamSurprise]

Why?

Flybe have been recruiting MPL guys since 2010. They joined Flybe with MPLs and not fATPLs.

[dannybuckley8]

Thank you for all of your advice, it has been enlightening and helpful. However I heard back from EZY today and was unfortunately unsuccessful, not sure what they are after but it clearly isn't me! Good luck to everyone with interviews, please feedback on here and let us all know what happens and how you get on, it would be interesting to hear about your journeys.

[EZY_FR]

Dannybuckley

Sorry to hear that. When did you submit your application?

[dannybuckley8]

On the 29th of September

[sosu89]

Anyone did the assessment at Oxford? Any feedback?

I have the assessment next Tuesday. Anyone joining?

[Gingerbread Man]

Don't kid yourself that any cadet scheme is free. It can be dressed up in a few ways, but you are financially disadvantaged in one way or another. I realise that some of these ways are more predictable and stable than others, but it is still money you don't get. Saying it is 'free in the long run' is misleading.

BA have already advertised for FOs with the requirement of an 'EASA issued licence for XX aircraft certification', or words to that effect, so you can apply with an MPL.

As for MPL vs. CPL/IR, other posters are right when they say the view of "ATPL is widely better" isn't accurate. You spend less time in a real aeroplane on an MPL, yes. However, nearly all the time you do spend in a real aeroplane is under 'continuous assessment', i.e. a lot of the time difference is the extra solo that a CPL requires. Solo experience can be great for a lot of things, and I wouldn't sniff at it, but an extra 38 hours is not going to turn you into Neil Armstrong. On an MPL you don't do an IR, or have to do the IR exam, which does seem like cheating a bit. I would say the big disadvantage of not coming out of training with a CPL/IR is that you can't do certain side jobs that some people do, e.g. paradropping.

As people have already alluded to, whether you've done more real flying, or spent 170 hours in a sim, you're still going to be a rabbit in the headlights when you get to a real flight deck. I think the best thing about a mentored scheme of any kind is that it is targetted, so you are getting used to a particular airline's SOPs from day one, which should make the transition to line flying slightly less difficult.

[vikdream]

I agree 100% with Gingerbread man. Been there, done that as well.

1) No cadet scheme in Europe is free in the long run, not even the initial costs. As Ginger said, they can be dressed up in different ways, they will all be similar when you know and understand the numbers when you join.

2) I am not going to discuss here further about the MPL-ATPL, but it is a fact that MPL holders with 250h (let alone 1000h) have moved from one airline to another, even outside the UK. And yes, BA were looking into the MPL, and yes, it is possible to run MPLs in Spain, so it might happen in the future.

[RS94]

Hi sosu89, I am also doing the stage 2 assessment day next week (wednesday). May I ask how you have been preparing for it? Have you completed the email questionnaire?

I have found a couple of sites that explain in brief what happens on the day though I believe they are both before the change from Compass to Adapt:
https://captaingordon.wordpress.com/...ford-aviation/
CAE Oxford Aviation Academy ? Skills Assessment | Clear Horizon Aviation Blog

LatestPilotJobs also have a page with tests similar to Oxford though it requires paying for and wanted a second opinion on whether it was worth it.
Oxford Aviation Academy (OAA) Pilot Selection and Assessment-Latest Pilot Jobs-Latest Pilot Jobs

In the email they have stated solo interviews are stage 3 but I still feel worried they will surprise us with it in this stage (in addition to the team tasks). Has anyone taken an MPL assessment day with CAE recently and can talk about the experience?

[Fostex]

No cadet scheme in Europe is free in the long run, not even the initial costs. As Ginger said, they can be dressed up in different ways, they will all be similar when you know and understand the numbers when you join.

Completely agree, it is easy to look at the BAFPP as free and money for nothing, it isn't. You go through exactly the same channel as you do with easy jet, i.e. a cadet training contract through APL and managed by CTC, regardless of whether you are training at CTC, FTE or OAA.

The main benefit with the BAFPP is that they may ( it very much depends on your financial situation and credit rating ) offer to secure a BBVA loan in order for you to pay for the training with your integrated provider.

The best European scheme out there at the moment is probably the Aer Lingus one.