How many of your CPL classmates are flying 7 years after graduation?
Thread Starter
How many of your CPL classmates are flying 7 years after graduation?
It has now been 7 years since I got my CPL. Around 20 people started with me but only about 12 finished and out of those 12, four were foreign students.
So 7 years on and out of the local guys (and girl) who got a CPL one is now a personal trainer, another went back to Uni (after looking for about 3 years for a job). Another is stuck in a job he hates (a flying job mind you) and pretty much apart from me everyone else is an instructor.
The reason I am posting here is because I have been led to believe out of the literally thousands of CPL-IR holders in Europe and many other parts of the world looking for that elusive first job that many again have already given up!
I am trying to gauge how many people are still around 7 years after getting a CPL. I read a statistic saying that less than 30% of people who obtain a CPL will still be involved in the industry (flying or not) after this length of time.
Anybody want to volunteer with some numbers?
So 7 years on and out of the local guys (and girl) who got a CPL one is now a personal trainer, another went back to Uni (after looking for about 3 years for a job). Another is stuck in a job he hates (a flying job mind you) and pretty much apart from me everyone else is an instructor.
The reason I am posting here is because I have been led to believe out of the literally thousands of CPL-IR holders in Europe and many other parts of the world looking for that elusive first job that many again have already given up!
I am trying to gauge how many people are still around 7 years after getting a CPL. I read a statistic saying that less than 30% of people who obtain a CPL will still be involved in the industry (flying or not) after this length of time.
Anybody want to volunteer with some numbers?
Last edited by pilotchute; 18th Jun 2014 at 11:08.
How many of your CPL classmates are flying 7 years after graduation?
I'd suggest that should you feel the need to ask the question and have gone to the trouble of itemising the numbers who have already tossed in the towel that you should do the same. Those poor buggers who are only instructors! Imagine that, being paid to train people in an activity they once had such a passion for! I think the industry would be better without people who think the left hand seat of some turbine powered machine with lots of devices to do the job for you is the end goal. I work with lots of people who have achieved that goal and they are no happier. Yet I recently sent a just retired 4 engined jet pilot on his first rag and tube tail dragger solo and he was over the moon. They are the types who should be in this game,they enjoy every phase of their aviation journey no matter how difficult it might seem.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi PC
An interesting thread so I’ll kick off what will hopefully be plenty of feedback with my own experiences.
I qualified from a modular school back in April 2008 so I’ve not quite got the ‘7 year itch’ yet.
Of those that I’m aware of that qualified around this time:
One self funded a TP rating, he has done some ferry work, had a 6 month contract with an airline and got a job with another airline that went bust while he was still line training with them. He keeps his medical and rating in date.
Another is working as an instructor for the school that he did he CPL with, he instructs pretty much everything up to and including MEIR.
Another started as a part time instructor with the same school but he has drifted off, not sure what he’s up to now.
Another started flying an MEP survey aircraft and has progressed onto light TPs now, mostly charter, medevac and air taxi stuff.
Another also started part time instruction but is now flying cargo TPs.
Another was a committed Christian and wanted to fly for MAF but didn’t have the minimum hours requirement so they started flying an SEP for a radio station ‘eye in the sky’ traffic broadcast, not sure if they ever made it into MAF or not.
Another passed the interview and sim check for a well known TP operator and was placed in the hold pool. While swimming in the pool they had to maintain a certain level of flying currency and was spending about £5k per year to achieve this so got a security job to get some money coming in. Last I heard they lost patience swimming in the pool and gave up.
Then there’s me, before I started flying training I was an engineer so I have gone back to a well paid engineering job for now to provide for my family and to allow me to maintain my medical, MEIR and a bit of currency.
I haven’t given up, maybe at the 7 year point I’ll throw my hands in the air and shout ‘
it’ and give up (not likely). The point at which to throw in the towel is very subjective and we’re all different, my own view is that I have put so much time, effort and money into this I won’t go down without a bloody good fight. Right now I can see a few situations which might get me to wrap:
If my wonderful wife were to lose faith and stop encouraging me to continue
If to keep going would threaten the welfare and support of my family.
If I were to suffer illness or injury serious enough to forfeit my medical.
Until then I shall keep going, some very decent people within the industry have been generous enough to offer to keep their eyes and ears open and help me out in any way possible which they don’t have to do and I am extremely grateful for.
An interesting thread so I’ll kick off what will hopefully be plenty of feedback with my own experiences.
I qualified from a modular school back in April 2008 so I’ve not quite got the ‘7 year itch’ yet.
Of those that I’m aware of that qualified around this time:
One self funded a TP rating, he has done some ferry work, had a 6 month contract with an airline and got a job with another airline that went bust while he was still line training with them. He keeps his medical and rating in date.
Another is working as an instructor for the school that he did he CPL with, he instructs pretty much everything up to and including MEIR.
Another started as a part time instructor with the same school but he has drifted off, not sure what he’s up to now.
Another started flying an MEP survey aircraft and has progressed onto light TPs now, mostly charter, medevac and air taxi stuff.
Another also started part time instruction but is now flying cargo TPs.
Another was a committed Christian and wanted to fly for MAF but didn’t have the minimum hours requirement so they started flying an SEP for a radio station ‘eye in the sky’ traffic broadcast, not sure if they ever made it into MAF or not.
Another passed the interview and sim check for a well known TP operator and was placed in the hold pool. While swimming in the pool they had to maintain a certain level of flying currency and was spending about £5k per year to achieve this so got a security job to get some money coming in. Last I heard they lost patience swimming in the pool and gave up.
Then there’s me, before I started flying training I was an engineer so I have gone back to a well paid engineering job for now to provide for my family and to allow me to maintain my medical, MEIR and a bit of currency.
I haven’t given up, maybe at the 7 year point I’ll throw my hands in the air and shout ‘
it’ and give up (not likely). The point at which to throw in the towel is very subjective and we’re all different, my own view is that I have put so much time, effort and money into this I won’t go down without a bloody good fight. Right now I can see a few situations which might get me to wrap:If my wonderful wife were to lose faith and stop encouraging me to continue
If to keep going would threaten the welfare and support of my family.
If I were to suffer illness or injury serious enough to forfeit my medical.
Until then I shall keep going, some very decent people within the industry have been generous enough to offer to keep their eyes and ears open and help me out in any way possible which they don’t have to do and I am extremely grateful for.
Thread Starter
roundsounds,
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as mocking instructors. I just didn't think they would still be doing it after this much time had passed. They were "shiny jet guys" at the start and wouldn't settle for anything less.
It took me nearly 3 years to get my first flying job and have only had a 6 month flying gap in the last 4 years. I consider myself very lucky as I have a GA job that pays like a jet job.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as mocking instructors. I just didn't think they would still be doing it after this much time had passed. They were "shiny jet guys" at the start and wouldn't settle for anything less.
It took me nearly 3 years to get my first flying job and have only had a 6 month flying gap in the last 4 years. I consider myself very lucky as I have a GA job that pays like a jet job.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 42
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
24 on my course six years ago.
1 did not make it and 5 got back coursed
1 x BA
1 x Cathay Pacific
2 x Lufthansa city line
1 x Emirates
7 x Ryanair
1 x Wizz
5 x Easyjet
5 x Unemployed who have not had any flying job
1 did not make it and 5 got back coursed
1 x BA
1 x Cathay Pacific
2 x Lufthansa city line
1 x Emirates
7 x Ryanair
1 x Wizz
5 x Easyjet
5 x Unemployed who have not had any flying job
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL370
Age: 38
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Went modular and finished in 2008. Of the six or so guys I'm still in contact with, I'm the only one in an airline. I know one guy is doing ground school instructing. Other than that I think everyone else packed it in and are focusing their energy on different careers.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Warrington, UK
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was 6 of us at the beginning. 1 couldn't complete the course and the other is a Heli guy so that leaves us 4. We all graduated in 2010.
2 works for Ryanair
1 is a instructor
1 is looking and renewing his ratings (That's me
)
2 works for Ryanair
1 is a instructor
1 is looking and renewing his ratings (That's me
)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 42
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would recommend the career but please bear in mind i speak having what is widely considered the best airline job in the uk.
I would not however recommend risking everything on it. It could so easily have worked out differently for me and if you are not the very fortunate you are either unemployed or flying under very poor terms and conditions.
I would not however recommend risking everything on it. It could so easily have worked out differently for me and if you are not the very fortunate you are either unemployed or flying under very poor terms and conditions.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Europe to Africa
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A bit more than 7 years though..
12 of us in a class, still in touch with most of them
2-Me and another friend were lucky to be sponsored by our airline thus we had a job waiting for us.
4- became instructors at the same school, all 4 now are flying for SAA
1- flew sometime in the bushes not sure what he is up to now
2- went back to kenya, 1 flying for kenya airways and the other 777 with EK
2- FO Sri lankan A330/340
1- left the course in-between. no idea about this guy
12 of us in a class, still in touch with most of them
2-Me and another friend were lucky to be sponsored by our airline thus we had a job waiting for us.
4- became instructors at the same school, all 4 now are flying for SAA
1- flew sometime in the bushes not sure what he is up to now
2- went back to kenya, 1 flying for kenya airways and the other 777 with EK
2- FO Sri lankan A330/340
1- left the course in-between. no idea about this guy
Thread Starter
A fellow pilot told me last night that at his previous company the Operations Manager would put the names of all the pilots who applied with less than the advertised minimums on a XL spreadsheet and if they applied again he would bin them out of spite!
They got dozens of CV's a week emailed to them. It even said on the website that they would only accept pilot CV's when the position was available on the careers page.
For those of you still looking, consider that before you apply for something you have nowhere near the mins for!
They got dozens of CV's a week emailed to them. It even said on the website that they would only accept pilot CV's when the position was available on the careers page.
For those of you still looking, consider that before you apply for something you have nowhere near the mins for!
Last edited by pilotchute; 19th Jun 2014 at 06:34.
abort abort
PPRuNe Handmaiden
7 years? Well, I finished my ATPL theory in 1994 (already had the CPL etc, Australia's different), of 12, 3 got a jet job. 2 of us ended up shifting to Europe, 1 managed it in Australia. The rest quit.
Of those who I did my CPL training with, no one got a jet job.
Of those who I did my CPL training with, no one got a jet job.
Educated Hillbilly
JS,
When you say you don't recommend this career, may I suggest you give up flying go back and work in an Office you will find within 5 minutes you will wish you were flying again. JS, I have no idea on your background, so the following comment is general not aimed at you, but I find those most dissatisfied with flying are those that went straight into it with out experiencing non flying jobs first.
I worked as a full time instructor had a brief spell on turboprops, when I had to go back to my old career of Engineering, I found been stuck behind a desk for most of the time nothing short of soul destroying, boring and depressing. I have spent the last few years just yearning to be flying full time. No part time instructing doesn't satisfy the flying bug, it is generally exhausting having to work that 6th day of the week, and once you have experienced something that is heavyish with turbines, C152s and PA28s to my mind don't give the same satisfaction.
The old adage fly for fun, sorry the really fun stuff to fly is exceptionally expensive to fly, not justifiable for many even on good salaries.
Just my view. Rationally flying does justify the financial outlay, but once you have experienced it, I don't think you can ever be happy behind a desk again. Nearly all I trained with are now in some kind of full time flying employment, I would add those that funded type ratings at the time are far better off than those that went instructing.
When you say you don't recommend this career, may I suggest you give up flying go back and work in an Office you will find within 5 minutes you will wish you were flying again. JS, I have no idea on your background, so the following comment is general not aimed at you, but I find those most dissatisfied with flying are those that went straight into it with out experiencing non flying jobs first.
I worked as a full time instructor had a brief spell on turboprops, when I had to go back to my old career of Engineering, I found been stuck behind a desk for most of the time nothing short of soul destroying, boring and depressing. I have spent the last few years just yearning to be flying full time. No part time instructing doesn't satisfy the flying bug, it is generally exhausting having to work that 6th day of the week, and once you have experienced something that is heavyish with turbines, C152s and PA28s to my mind don't give the same satisfaction.
The old adage fly for fun, sorry the really fun stuff to fly is exceptionally expensive to fly, not justifiable for many even on good salaries.
Just my view. Rationally flying does justify the financial outlay, but once you have experienced it, I don't think you can ever be happy behind a desk again. Nearly all I trained with are now in some kind of full time flying employment, I would add those that funded type ratings at the time are far better off than those that went instructing.
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Space
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Out of our class finishing in mid 2010 I am the only one employed with an airline out of 13 of us.
1 left during training
1 currently driving trucks
1 night porter in a hotel atm
3 flying light a/c, skydive pilots and private charter
1 went back to previous job
1 just got A320 rated but still unemployed
No update on the other 6 but as far as i know they're not flying.
It's not easy, I got lucky!
Getting the license is the easy part, its what you do after that to find a job is the hard part. 3000 emails, dozens of calls, visits & hand written letters and 3 years later I landed my first airline job.
Get yourself out there, perseverance pays off, be persistent and never give up
1 left during training
1 currently driving trucks
1 night porter in a hotel atm
3 flying light a/c, skydive pilots and private charter
1 went back to previous job
1 just got A320 rated but still unemployed
No update on the other 6 but as far as i know they're not flying.
It's not easy, I got lucky!
Getting the license is the easy part, its what you do after that to find a job is the hard part. 3000 emails, dozens of calls, visits & hand written letters and 3 years later I landed my first airline job.
Get yourself out there, perseverance pays off, be persistent and never give up
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Crew hotel
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Finished 13 years ago right after 9/11. Seems things are even worse now than back then. Always interesting to look back where people have ended up!
15 or so on my integrated course;
3 quit in first six months of training (think one quit after 2 weeks)
2 went to Thomson B757
2 with BA on B777 (2nd jet job)
1 with Emirates on B777 (4th jet job)
1 now capt at Monarch
1 at Aer Lingus A320
1 did Easyjet for 5ish years, but I believe left flying to raise family
1 helicopter guy
3 unknown but very likely to have secured jobs
Out of the above, the longest taken was just over 4 years to find an airline job. I'm afraid our flying school has since gone bust but was reasonably well regarded back then by the airlines. Depending on where you end up and what equipment you will fly, the flying side can still be enjoyable, but the day to day rubbish we put up with is destroying what could otherwise be a great job.
15 or so on my integrated course;
3 quit in first six months of training (think one quit after 2 weeks)
2 went to Thomson B757
2 with BA on B777 (2nd jet job)
1 with Emirates on B777 (4th jet job)
1 now capt at Monarch
1 at Aer Lingus A320
1 did Easyjet for 5ish years, but I believe left flying to raise family
1 helicopter guy
3 unknown but very likely to have secured jobs
Out of the above, the longest taken was just over 4 years to find an airline job. I'm afraid our flying school has since gone bust but was reasonably well regarded back then by the airlines. Depending on where you end up and what equipment you will fly, the flying side can still be enjoyable, but the day to day rubbish we put up with is destroying what could otherwise be a great job.