Legal right to work in europe
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Legal right to work in europe
Hello. I am russian citizen with faa cpl me/ir and I also have an unrestricted permission to live and work in germany,but it is not a citizenship. I am looking to convert my faa to jaa license. So now the question. Can I work not only in germany with my permission,but in other european countries or it is illegial?thanks.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as i know that would be illegal. To profit from the free right to live and work anywhere in the EU you have to be an EU citizen. The easiest solution would be to get a german citizenship, or any other EU citizenship for that matter.
The german pilot market is completely dead at the moment except for those in cadet programs of either lufthansa or air berlin or some pay to fly programs (not a good idea, doing these means you're unemployable with the aforementioned bigger airlines). Getting an EU citizenship would be a good idea therefore if you you insist on working in the EU, which in its current economic climate is quite a questionable idea.
The german pilot market is completely dead at the moment except for those in cadet programs of either lufthansa or air berlin or some pay to fly programs (not a good idea, doing these means you're unemployable with the aforementioned bigger airlines). Getting an EU citizenship would be a good idea therefore if you you insist on working in the EU, which in its current economic climate is quite a questionable idea.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if we are speaking about working in europe it is not a good idea? And pilot job market especially for low hour pilots is completely dead in europe? And what about asia or africa? I have heard that they prefer more jaa licences than faa
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why do you want to work in EU anyway?
I wish I was a Russian in that matter, that in Russia there are a lot of jobs for low houred pilots. As long as you have a bachalor. So I suggest to get a pilot job in Russia. Many N registered Bizz jetz in Russia. Maybe an idea?
EU is as mentioned , DEAD.
Otherwise you have also many oppertunities in CIS countries.
I wish I was a Russian in that matter, that in Russia there are a lot of jobs for low houred pilots. As long as you have a bachalor. So I suggest to get a pilot job in Russia. Many N registered Bizz jetz in Russia. Maybe an idea?
EU is as mentioned , DEAD.
Otherwise you have also many oppertunities in CIS countries.
Last edited by P40Warhawk; 3rd Nov 2013 at 10:47.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Lyubko,
There are in EU almost no oppertunities as Low Houred Pilot. Just say None.
In Russia there is a lack of well trained Pilots. But no possibility for now to apply as a foreigner.
There are in EU almost no oppertunities as Low Houred Pilot. Just say None.
In Russia there is a lack of well trained Pilots. But no possibility for now to apply as a foreigner.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: EU airspace
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jobs in Russia
It is possible to be changed soon. They ( Russians CAA ) consider to remove restrictions for foreign captains. This step will cause at least a little bit movement on EU pilots market. I don't know is this market dead or alive, but I'm in 100% ensure that is totally blocked right now. From other side, you will hear opposite statements if you wish..
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The pay in Russia is in general quiet good, so Captains might go there. That means senior FO's might get upgrade to captain, which means new Junior FO's Needed etc.
But I am not to enthusiastic for now. Since we have an overload of jobless pilots in EU.
But I am not to enthusiastic for now. Since we have an overload of jobless pilots in EU.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suspect though that none Russian speaking pilots won't get a look in.
And there are actually quite a few of them about flying in the former eastern block countries that are members of the EU.
And who ever does go is going to have a huge learning curve in the CRM department compared to Western CRM.
And there are actually quite a few of them about flying in the former eastern block countries that are members of the EU.
And who ever does go is going to have a huge learning curve in the CRM department compared to Western CRM.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: EU airspace
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I suspect though that none Russian speaking pilots won't get a look in."
It's depend on actual work status ...
About payment in Russia it should be compared with most EU companies ( central and western )
I didn't told about BG , LTH ..
It's depend on actual work status ...
About payment in Russia it should be compared with most EU companies ( central and western )
I didn't told about BG , LTH ..
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
there are hundreds of unemployed pilots in Poland and other States. If the pay is to western standards they will be off like a shot when a 737 Captain in Poland gets 3.5k euros a month before tax.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: EU airspace
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In every possible scenario - if Russians will open their pilot jobs market this will cause some movement on EU pilots market. Just for example - if you have to choice between real pilot position in Istanbul and to stay at home unemployed , even if you aren't Turkish speaking ?
Last edited by lyubko; 28th Nov 2013 at 17:58.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well we don't actually as company's can still require the local lingo to employ you.
And there are certain national prejudices which come into action. Western European countries will tend not to go for eastern Europeans and vice versa. There is never anything that can be done about it because of mainly the sheer volume of people who meet the criteria. You would never be able to prove that the 10 UK pilots were discriminated against when there was another 90 pilots in the pool for 2 jobs.
And there are certain national prejudices which come into action. Western European countries will tend not to go for eastern Europeans and vice versa. There is never anything that can be done about it because of mainly the sheer volume of people who meet the criteria. You would never be able to prove that the 10 UK pilots were discriminated against when there was another 90 pilots in the pool for 2 jobs.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: EU airspace
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Mad Jock !
I wouldn't like to set Eastern versus Western EU. My intention is to say that we need of external markets for pilots production . To establish a trade mark " made in EU " for better ( safety&efficiency ) pilots is a good reason to make own rules like JAR-EASA . Any other reason is just bureaucrats justification. For example - Airbus expansion on the aircrafts market.
I wouldn't like to set Eastern versus Western EU. My intention is to say that we need of external markets for pilots production . To establish a trade mark " made in EU " for better ( safety&efficiency ) pilots is a good reason to make own rules like JAR-EASA . Any other reason is just bureaucrats justification. For example - Airbus expansion on the aircrafts market.
Last edited by lyubko; 28th Nov 2013 at 18:01.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thing is external markets are just temporary. They only use western pilots until the locals can get trained up then the ex-pats get booted out the door.
They could take on 600 pilots tomorrow and that still wouldn't empty the KLM hold pool
They could take on 600 pilots tomorrow and that still wouldn't empty the KLM hold pool
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK, US, now more ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Age: 41
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Denti is not 100% correct. Uninformed opinion, I'd say and common one. Aviation expertise does not cover complex EU laws and rules. I know as I dealt with it before and in UK (extra hassle with Ho' o(ri)fice) 
OP, if you're de facto partner (eg in UK they want provable 2-3 years of relationship/cohabitation) or married spouse of EU national, then if they move with you to other EU country, you can get right to work as per the EU/EEA rights and get the EEA2 card as confirmation of status. After qualifying time (which I suspect may be longer than getting nationality in Germany after livin there long enough, not soure about your circumstances), you can get EEA4 card, full PR (perm res) as family member of EU national.
The catch is that technically the EU national partner/spouse should live in the 'third country' within EU with you as your status would be derived from theirs 'exercising treaty rights'. Look it up if you meet the conditions and you're determined to stay within EU.
Good idea is to have the relevant EEA1 or EEA3 sorted beforehand as some authorities/governments may want bureaucraPic proof/shuffling.
Other than UK Home Office (as mentioned above, ehrm) and UK related websites, it's not comin up on google straight away. This explains it briefly as well. I guess it's most popular for people taking advantage of it to have right to work and live in UK..
EEA Family Permit. EEA Residence Document. Permanent Residence for EEA nationals and non-EEA Family Members. EEA Appeals. Application EEA1,EEA2,EEA3,EEA4 applications
OP, if you're de facto partner (eg in UK they want provable 2-3 years of relationship/cohabitation) or married spouse of EU national, then if they move with you to other EU country, you can get right to work as per the EU/EEA rights and get the EEA2 card as confirmation of status. After qualifying time (which I suspect may be longer than getting nationality in Germany after livin there long enough, not soure about your circumstances), you can get EEA4 card, full PR (perm res) as family member of EU national.
The catch is that technically the EU national partner/spouse should live in the 'third country' within EU with you as your status would be derived from theirs 'exercising treaty rights'. Look it up if you meet the conditions and you're determined to stay within EU.
Good idea is to have the relevant EEA1 or EEA3 sorted beforehand as some authorities/governments may want bureaucraPic proof/shuffling.
Other than UK Home Office (as mentioned above, ehrm) and UK related websites, it's not comin up on google straight away. This explains it briefly as well. I guess it's most popular for people taking advantage of it to have right to work and live in UK..
EEA Family Permit. EEA Residence Document. Permanent Residence for EEA nationals and non-EEA Family Members. EEA Appeals. Application EEA1,EEA2,EEA3,EEA4 applications
