British Airways Future Pilot Programme.
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Females and FPP
In all of my visits to OAA the groups have been 100% male.
Has anybody come across any female candidates?
Has anybody come across any female candidates?
Last edited by BEA1959; 14th Jan 2013 at 14:10.
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CTC Assessment Day
Hey,
I have got my first assessment day for CTC on the 24th and was just wondering if the aptitude tests set are only the PilApt ones? I.e. physics, logical reasoning etc are not tested. I believe the numerical tests are at the next stage with the interview, but if someone who has attended an assessment day already can confirm this/ shred some light, I would be very grateful.
Many thanks!
I have got my first assessment day for CTC on the 24th and was just wondering if the aptitude tests set are only the PilApt ones? I.e. physics, logical reasoning etc are not tested. I believe the numerical tests are at the next stage with the interview, but if someone who has attended an assessment day already can confirm this/ shred some light, I would be very grateful.
Many thanks!
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Salary
Can anyone shed light on the salary increments that are applicable to a BA First Officer. I have looked all over PPRUNE for the answer but can only see the starting salary (as per the BA FPP site). Also, I have heard conflicting stories on the amount of years necessary before you get command?
Thanks
Thanks
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Not sure about the exact pay scales for FPP but in terms of time to command, a LONG LONG time is the answer to that. For a long haul first officer position you're looking at 7+ years after joining the company. Short haul command probably 15-20 years and long haul command 20-25 years. Maybe even longer.
Last edited by veetwo; 16th Jan 2013 at 15:36.
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BAFPP Salary Increments
James,
On Page 11 of this thread Stocious states the following:
No idea if this is correct or not.
On Page 11 of this thread Stocious states the following:
According to a BALPA source, FPP salaries are as follows: (all are base salary on PP34 from 2011)
Year 1 - 22770
2 - 27628
3 - 32395
4 - 39047
Year 1 - 22770
2 - 27628
3 - 32395
4 - 39047
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Thanks for the info. It makes interesting reading with that sort of time until command. How does that compare with other airlines?
Do you know with the BA FPP what your return of service is. I guess it must be at least 7 years if you are to have your full training paid for. What I guess I'm asking is whether its worth doing 7 years with BA and then looking elsewhere for a faster route to command.
Do you know with the BA FPP what your return of service is. I guess it must be at least 7 years if you are to have your full training paid for. What I guess I'm asking is whether its worth doing 7 years with BA and then looking elsewhere for a faster route to command.
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fte assessment
Sorry, I have already asked you guys, but for the FTE assessment is the interview on the same day? Cause I know for OAA and CTC is different...thanks
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Return of Service / Bond / Command opportunities
James-
If you are planning a career in civil aviation based upon gaining a place on the BA FPP programme, serving 7 years in order to pay back the loan and then leaving in order to seek a faster track to command, I would advise you to look elsewhere now and leave a coveted place available to someone more committed.
BA are not seeking 7 year co-pilots, they are recruiting their future captains and senior flight operations management, and this valuable opportunity should be viewed with that knowledge. In my experience of over 35 years very, very few pilots ever resigned from BA for the reason you suggest.
Regarding time to command, BA themselves would love to know the answer to that question. A previous Flight Operations Director took 17 years and I was a co-pilot for 15 years; the shortest time I know of was 5 years from ab-initio cadet to the left hand seat of a 737 - but that was back in the 1990s.
With the current flexible extension to compulsory retirement age above 55, no one - not even the pilot - can predict when they might like to 'call it a day'. In these circumstances planning future command courses, in order to satisfy crewing requirements, really does need the proverbial crystal ball.
This course is one for those with a totally professional commitment to a long term career with a world leading legacy carrier - if that is not what you want, please allow someone else the chance of a lifetime. Many successful candidates have waited over 10 years for this very opportunity.
If I have misinterpreted your intentions, I apologise and wish you good luck in the selection process.
If you are planning a career in civil aviation based upon gaining a place on the BA FPP programme, serving 7 years in order to pay back the loan and then leaving in order to seek a faster track to command, I would advise you to look elsewhere now and leave a coveted place available to someone more committed.
BA are not seeking 7 year co-pilots, they are recruiting their future captains and senior flight operations management, and this valuable opportunity should be viewed with that knowledge. In my experience of over 35 years very, very few pilots ever resigned from BA for the reason you suggest.
Regarding time to command, BA themselves would love to know the answer to that question. A previous Flight Operations Director took 17 years and I was a co-pilot for 15 years; the shortest time I know of was 5 years from ab-initio cadet to the left hand seat of a 737 - but that was back in the 1990s.
With the current flexible extension to compulsory retirement age above 55, no one - not even the pilot - can predict when they might like to 'call it a day'. In these circumstances planning future command courses, in order to satisfy crewing requirements, really does need the proverbial crystal ball.
This course is one for those with a totally professional commitment to a long term career with a world leading legacy carrier - if that is not what you want, please allow someone else the chance of a lifetime. Many successful candidates have waited over 10 years for this very opportunity.
If I have misinterpreted your intentions, I apologise and wish you good luck in the selection process.
Last edited by FullTanks; 16th Jan 2013 at 22:11.
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@James-
Dangerously close to thread creep here so I'll keep this brief and leave it there.
If you want to live in Europe, the answer is probably no. Very few people ever choose to leave BA simply because they offer some of the best terms and conditions around. If you did choose to leave, don't forget that other airlines in the UK are unlikely to offer you a direct entry command - you'd have to start again as a junior FO and work your way back up.
If however you see your long term future in the middle east or far east and have no intention of coming back, then I suppose you could choose to leave permanently if the offer of a direct entry command came up somewhere. But I suspect what you will come to realize is that your overall working conditions and quality of life matter much more than which seat you sit in. Command is obviously desirable, but it certainly isn't the be all and end all. This is particularly true in airlines like BA where seniority is king. As a senior first officer with good seniority on your fleet you can pretty much write your own roster. As a junior captain you cannot. Hence why many people deliberately delay their command or never bid for it at all.
Edited to say: I agree wholeheartedly with FullTanks. If you're already talking about leaving after 7 years because a fast command is more important than anything else, this probably is not the scheme for you.
Dangerously close to thread creep here so I'll keep this brief and leave it there.
What I guess I'm asking is whether its worth doing 7 years with BA and then looking elsewhere for a faster route to command.
If however you see your long term future in the middle east or far east and have no intention of coming back, then I suppose you could choose to leave permanently if the offer of a direct entry command came up somewhere. But I suspect what you will come to realize is that your overall working conditions and quality of life matter much more than which seat you sit in. Command is obviously desirable, but it certainly isn't the be all and end all. This is particularly true in airlines like BA where seniority is king. As a senior first officer with good seniority on your fleet you can pretty much write your own roster. As a junior captain you cannot. Hence why many people deliberately delay their command or never bid for it at all.
Edited to say: I agree wholeheartedly with FullTanks. If you're already talking about leaving after 7 years because a fast command is more important than anything else, this probably is not the scheme for you.
Last edited by veetwo; 16th Jan 2013 at 22:13.
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Thanks for the info. It makes interesting reading with that sort of time until command. How does that compare with other airlines?
Do you know with the BA FPP what your return of service is. I guess it must be at least 7 years if you are to have your full training paid for. What I guess I'm asking is whether its worth doing 7 years with BA and then looking elsewhere for a faster route to command.
Do you know with the BA FPP what your return of service is. I guess it must be at least 7 years if you are to have your full training paid for. What I guess I'm asking is whether its worth doing 7 years with BA and then looking elsewhere for a faster route to command.
For a start most of us wannabes are mostly concerned about how to even get a foot in the door of commercial aviation, never mind about the quickest way to make captain. I suggest you be realistic and stop dreaming. And above all, try to understand the amazing opportunity you get with BA.
If you see this as merely a stepping stone to making captain as quick as possible, you can try Ryanair instead. They make captains relatively quickly there.
Good luck
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Actually using this to get your ticket and experence then going somewhere else is the best most logical method for a pilot I have seen yet on the thread.
To be honest the salary isn't that great our TP FO's get more.
You will get the bonus of the tax breaks so it is worth it.
Command is bloody brillant to be honest its when flying becomes fun again. You get to set the tone of the day and life becomes extremely easy in my experence.
20 years as an FO sod that although with the size of the crew base you won't be flying with the same special needs Captains week in week out.
Use it for yourself you don't owe BA anything once you have done your time.
To be honest the salary isn't that great our TP FO's get more.
You will get the bonus of the tax breaks so it is worth it.
Command is bloody brillant to be honest its when flying becomes fun again. You get to set the tone of the day and life becomes extremely easy in my experence.
20 years as an FO sod that although with the size of the crew base you won't be flying with the same special needs Captains week in week out.
Use it for yourself you don't owe BA anything once you have done your time.
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Don't forget those salaries are exclusive of bond repayments - £12,000 per annum and flying pay which should be worth at least £7-8k. That puts year 1 total remuneration back towards the low £40k mark, which personally I think is quite respectable.
I reckon that the number of FPP cadets who 'use' this scheme and intend to leave is pretty much zero. The selection process itself should have weeded those ones out.
BA seems to be able to cater to a lot of different career aspirations in terms of their bidding system. With enough seniority, if you want day trips and home every night, you could do it. If you wanted longer trips away or long haul, you can do it. There are plenty of SFO's who have enough seniority to bid for command should they so choose, but they prefer to wait in the RHS because of the lifestyle and roster freedom that is available to them.
It's also worth pointing out that if you have aspirations to do other things in BA than being a line pilot, there are plenty positions available to you that don't require a command as a prerequisite.
I reckon that the number of FPP cadets who 'use' this scheme and intend to leave is pretty much zero. The selection process itself should have weeded those ones out.
BA seems to be able to cater to a lot of different career aspirations in terms of their bidding system. With enough seniority, if you want day trips and home every night, you could do it. If you wanted longer trips away or long haul, you can do it. There are plenty of SFO's who have enough seniority to bid for command should they so choose, but they prefer to wait in the RHS because of the lifestyle and roster freedom that is available to them.
It's also worth pointing out that if you have aspirations to do other things in BA than being a line pilot, there are plenty positions available to you that don't require a command as a prerequisite.
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Just ask the guy after 7 years if he still wants to leave for a command elsewhere. Those of us working at BA know what the answer will be, fairly pointless to debate it further.