British Airways Future Pilot Programme.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, UK
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250 pounds is a drop in the ocean really, I've self funded nearly a comm and I guess will have to repeat nearly all of it. (I haven't taken the comm test as I want to see if I get this and they don't take comm pilots)..
I guess you've got to really want to work for BA
I guess you've got to really want to work for BA
Join Date: May 2001
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Not everyone is sitting around on their behind ready to go at a moments notice, nor are they necessarily in this country or even on this continent.
The fact is that if you can't make it they really don't care one little bit if you can't make it. You may be the perfect person for the scheme but there will be another 100 people more than happy to take your spot.
My first job was phone call on Monday on a flight 10 hours later on Tuesday for interview and hadn't heard anything on Friday so phoned and the FOM wasn't in but the lady on reception said crewing wants to talk to you. Started the type rating on the Monday. If I hadn't no job.
Empathy and airline operations don't mix.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: the OFCR......and probably somewhere over China zzzzzzzz
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Holding back on assesment dates would be potential suicide. Making a career and life changing move requires some balls when dealing with current employers. Especially in today's climate. Do what you can and take the first available opportunity to attend assesment.
In response to an earlier suggestion to FTOs lowering selection standards. They most certainly have done. The FTOs in today's market are in the wrong place to make money the old fashioned way. The UK and European markets are shrinking (in terms of pilot requirements). The best place for a FTO to be right now is South East Asia/Australia or the Middle East. These locations can easily serve the growing markets more directly. The recent economic situation has put the 'sensible' money off investing in their future flying aspirations. This has led to a reduction of applicants. The FTOs, who attend many careers fairs and the like, are aware of the high number of very young hopefuls (you can spot them when you visit the schools wearing bomber jackets, lanyard and aviators). Whilst they would not hesitate to run selections for these individuals (for free in the past to keep applications numbers up) it was found that these individuals kept on failing selection. This is partly due to a reduction in education standards across the board, but also due to the naivety of young individuals who did not truely appreciate what they were getting themselves into. As such the fianacial types in FTOs all saw a huge £ sign. Airlines running courses in conjunction with FTOs were faced with selection scores way below what had been seen before.
Have the brains dried up, or have the candidates with sence put applying off until an opportunity such as the FPP came along? In my opinion it is a bit of both. Be under no illusion, the FTOs all have their 'quota' of no hopers, there filling the debt hole of the FTOs, continually failing exams (even with the aid of Bristol) who simply have been failed by the dumbing down of a robust selection system. BA were aware of this, and as a security measure made all the FPP finalists undergo another, BA run, set of aptitude tests. Think of it as a quality assurance check.
The naive 18/19 year olds attending some FTOs will continue to fail and be back coursed, keeping the money coming in. It used to be the case that if the FTO did not think that you had a high probability of getting through on the first attempt, you were politely declined. Now, as long as you have a hope in hell, and have the finances in place, you have a shot. The FPP attracts a high number of applicants (brand awareness) and the FTOs know they can pick off the best and make offers to the rest. Some even try to get the failures onto the next airline scheme in the pipe line. BA and other airlines are fully aware of this, but the new 'status quo' is what it is. The economy really needs to pick up to bring the FTOs back to their previous good days.
I keep on harking on and on but DO YOUR RESEARCH! visit the schools, KNOW that you would be happy there, look for contract changes, how are they justified? Is there a double standard? No FTO is perfect, by any standards and they would never claim to be. There are many great instructors still at the FTOs and some fantastic training will be delivered. But do get into the nitty gritty. It is YOUR investment, and YOUR decision.
The FTOs all have there varying good and bad points. Reading posts on here is incredibly subjective. Biased and tarnished posts abound. The most important thing to do is visit the intended FTO's open day. Get to know the place! Once again GO AND BLOODY VISIT THE FTO!!!! It pains me when individuals do not, and end up realising it is not for them far, far , far too late in the game. The FTOs would not want you to be there, failing because you were unhappy with being in Phoenix, Jerez, New Zealand. Really really think about what it is you are doing, and what to do if you are placed into a hold pool at the end of training. Have a credible back up in mind.
Finally good luck to all of you. Even being on the FPP does not make this game an easy ride, there will be moments you bang your head against the wall and ask why the hell you are doing this to yourself. However,being sat at the front is, without any doubt, the best job in the world. (apart from being paid to blow stuff up in the Royal Artillery)
In response to an earlier suggestion to FTOs lowering selection standards. They most certainly have done. The FTOs in today's market are in the wrong place to make money the old fashioned way. The UK and European markets are shrinking (in terms of pilot requirements). The best place for a FTO to be right now is South East Asia/Australia or the Middle East. These locations can easily serve the growing markets more directly. The recent economic situation has put the 'sensible' money off investing in their future flying aspirations. This has led to a reduction of applicants. The FTOs, who attend many careers fairs and the like, are aware of the high number of very young hopefuls (you can spot them when you visit the schools wearing bomber jackets, lanyard and aviators). Whilst they would not hesitate to run selections for these individuals (for free in the past to keep applications numbers up) it was found that these individuals kept on failing selection. This is partly due to a reduction in education standards across the board, but also due to the naivety of young individuals who did not truely appreciate what they were getting themselves into. As such the fianacial types in FTOs all saw a huge £ sign. Airlines running courses in conjunction with FTOs were faced with selection scores way below what had been seen before.
Have the brains dried up, or have the candidates with sence put applying off until an opportunity such as the FPP came along? In my opinion it is a bit of both. Be under no illusion, the FTOs all have their 'quota' of no hopers, there filling the debt hole of the FTOs, continually failing exams (even with the aid of Bristol) who simply have been failed by the dumbing down of a robust selection system. BA were aware of this, and as a security measure made all the FPP finalists undergo another, BA run, set of aptitude tests. Think of it as a quality assurance check.
The naive 18/19 year olds attending some FTOs will continue to fail and be back coursed, keeping the money coming in. It used to be the case that if the FTO did not think that you had a high probability of getting through on the first attempt, you were politely declined. Now, as long as you have a hope in hell, and have the finances in place, you have a shot. The FPP attracts a high number of applicants (brand awareness) and the FTOs know they can pick off the best and make offers to the rest. Some even try to get the failures onto the next airline scheme in the pipe line. BA and other airlines are fully aware of this, but the new 'status quo' is what it is. The economy really needs to pick up to bring the FTOs back to their previous good days.
I keep on harking on and on but DO YOUR RESEARCH! visit the schools, KNOW that you would be happy there, look for contract changes, how are they justified? Is there a double standard? No FTO is perfect, by any standards and they would never claim to be. There are many great instructors still at the FTOs and some fantastic training will be delivered. But do get into the nitty gritty. It is YOUR investment, and YOUR decision.
The FTOs all have there varying good and bad points. Reading posts on here is incredibly subjective. Biased and tarnished posts abound. The most important thing to do is visit the intended FTO's open day. Get to know the place! Once again GO AND BLOODY VISIT THE FTO!!!! It pains me when individuals do not, and end up realising it is not for them far, far , far too late in the game. The FTOs would not want you to be there, failing because you were unhappy with being in Phoenix, Jerez, New Zealand. Really really think about what it is you are doing, and what to do if you are placed into a hold pool at the end of training. Have a credible back up in mind.
Finally good luck to all of you. Even being on the FPP does not make this game an easy ride, there will be moments you bang your head against the wall and ask why the hell you are doing this to yourself. However,being sat at the front is, without any doubt, the best job in the world. (apart from being paid to blow stuff up in the Royal Artillery)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Manchester
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Very informative post. Thank you kindly for this information. I advise the younger aspiring pilots to read the advice above carefully and ask any questions if you need to. I remember what I was like when I was 18/19 and I was incredibly instinctive and naive (although I thought I knew it all).
Anyway, on another subject. Does anybody know for sure who reviews the intial applications? To my knowledge it is the FTO's but other people seem to think its British Airways?
Anyway, on another subject. Does anybody know for sure who reviews the intial applications? To my knowledge it is the FTO's but other people seem to think its British Airways?
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sparta
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As much the big post above makes sense, secondary research can be a lot quicker, cheaper and more informative than primary, especially when gathered from a few sources.
So on that note, does ANYBODY know at all the main differences between the integrated courses at these FTO's? And any personal opinions/anecdotes would be much appreciated.
Thanks
So on that note, does ANYBODY know at all the main differences between the integrated courses at these FTO's? And any personal opinions/anecdotes would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
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Would successful candidates get a choice of BA base location upon completion of training?
If not what are the most likely locations one can expect to be based at?
Thanks in advance
If not what are the most likely locations one can expect to be based at?
Thanks in advance
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Would successful candidates get a choice of BA base location upon completion of training?
If not what are the most likely locations one can expect to be based at?
Thanks in advance
If not what are the most likely locations one can expect to be based at?
Thanks in advance
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: UK
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BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES, your last 3 paragraphs are very good advice and should be read. Whilst the rest may be true for smaller FTOs, it is ill-informed with regards to the 3 FTOs chosen for BA. If anything, the opposite has happened since 9/11.
Pre 9/11 most students were high calibre sponsored, and the remaining places were open to anyone with a cheque book, leading to the problems you allude to. Post 9/11 the game changed and no sponsored students existed so the FTOs went to their banks and asked if they could secure favourable loans for self sponsored students. The banks agreed (being a time of easy credit), but wanted assurances the student would pass. Hence the skills assessment was born for all.
Whilst turning students away seemed madness initially it has been a huge success as the pass rates of the courses is now in excess of 99%, backed up by Oxford's skills net (now a full refund for course failure at any time, and no re-sit fees). What happened was that the end product was of a higher calibre, more likely to get a job (if there were any), and the FTO saved money by having greater course throughput due less failures. The skills assessment process has evolved and whilst initially basic is now worthy of any modern recruitment process, and in some cases better than some airline's! The fact that BA have always in the past done all their selection in-house but now trust the FTO's assessment process is the ultimate validation. The airline will always do the final screening, but what this means is the candidates reaching the final stage are of a very high calibre indeed and make BA's job easy (or difficult depending which way you look at it)!!
Pre 9/11 most students were high calibre sponsored, and the remaining places were open to anyone with a cheque book, leading to the problems you allude to. Post 9/11 the game changed and no sponsored students existed so the FTOs went to their banks and asked if they could secure favourable loans for self sponsored students. The banks agreed (being a time of easy credit), but wanted assurances the student would pass. Hence the skills assessment was born for all.
Whilst turning students away seemed madness initially it has been a huge success as the pass rates of the courses is now in excess of 99%, backed up by Oxford's skills net (now a full refund for course failure at any time, and no re-sit fees). What happened was that the end product was of a higher calibre, more likely to get a job (if there were any), and the FTO saved money by having greater course throughput due less failures. The skills assessment process has evolved and whilst initially basic is now worthy of any modern recruitment process, and in some cases better than some airline's! The fact that BA have always in the past done all their selection in-house but now trust the FTO's assessment process is the ultimate validation. The airline will always do the final screening, but what this means is the candidates reaching the final stage are of a very high calibre indeed and make BA's job easy (or difficult depending which way you look at it)!!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: World
Age: 31
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I would like to ask if I complete the application form and be accepted, and for some reason cannot be there for the selection process, shall be unacceptable for future programmes? Thanks in advance.
Join Date: May 2001
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The 99% if true which I doudt. I think you will find is more to do with the in house IRE's doing the IR tests instead of the CAA staff IRE's.
Last edited by mad_jock; 6th Dec 2012 at 22:10.
Join Date: Dec 2012
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On the edge of applying, but I'm a little confused about how the financing works. Could someone explain it to me?
Also, it would be cool if people could post their stats? Like:
Education Status: Degree, a-level results?
school applied for: OAA ect.
obviously not giving too much away!
Also, it would be cool if people could post their stats? Like:
Education Status: Degree, a-level results?
school applied for: OAA ect.
obviously not giving too much away!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: earth
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Concord, you finance it this way,
Your parents re mortgage their house to the tune of £84,000.00.
Or if you are not able to raise the money using assets, ie your parents Home, you may be eligible to raise the money through the British Airways loan, if your credit check and score be good enough the bank will give you the money with BA acting as guarantor.
Easy really,
Your parents re mortgage their house to the tune of £84,000.00.
Or if you are not able to raise the money using assets, ie your parents Home, you may be eligible to raise the money through the British Airways loan, if your credit check and score be good enough the bank will give you the money with BA acting as guarantor.
Easy really,
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London
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Don't intend to be rude but wow...some of the questions you guys are posting should disqualify you from ever even coming in contact with an airplane.
Really, read the BA FPP site first. It's not rocket science.
Really, read the BA FPP site first. It's not rocket science.
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Don't intend to be rude but wow...some of the questions you guys are posting should disqualify you from ever even coming in contact with an airplane.
Don't intend to be rude but wow... Was there any point in you posting this, apart from giving yourself an air of superiority, despite the fact you are in exactly the same boat as everyone else?
Clarifying precisely how the funding scheme works is hardly an idiotic question to ask. I just don't know why you think you're in a position which makes you think you can comment on whether others are suited at all to becoming a pilot.