No jobs yet.... type rating? eaglejet? what should I do?
Chris,
Firstly, good luck in the job hunt. As others have said, we all started with a basic CPL and a dream. I suspect the majority of us did not have a contact in a recruitment department who got us a job on a shiny jet within months of completing our training. We all faced the daunting prospect of getting a job in a highly competitive industry.
Read this book: Job Hunting for Pilots by Gregory N. Brown. It is written for the American market but most of the advice is transferable to the European market. Brown does two main things: First he give sound advice on how to network within the industry. Second, and more important, he knows how to motivate you. If you can't afford to buy a copy, send me a PM and I'll lend you my copy.
My next gem of advice: get a job. No, I am to being facetious! But get some money coming in the door, even if it's just a pub job, working the fire crew at your local airfield, or selling your body down the Old Kent Road (now I am being facetious). Having an income will keep your spirits up and put beer down your throat. Key issues.
After reading Brown's book you may have a good idea of how much you can be getting on with. Networking is the primary goal. With so many mountains of CVs arriving each morning on the mat at each AOC holder, you need to get yours to the attention of the Chief Pilot. People usually employ someone they know something about rather than an unknown quantity.
I worry about the true P2Fly schemes because they are exploitation. Any company who takes you on under one of these schemes does not care about you or your career development. A friend paid to join one of them as a last resort. He became ill and lost his medical temporarily, and his 'job' permanently. Whatever route you choose to get into to industry, make sure it's a stepping stone in your career, not something that you could easily regret.
I would not class Ryanair with the likes of Eaglejet. They will not show you much love but at least the company's obsession with training, standard operating procedures and safety will stand you in good stead. Moreover, you do get paid for working for them. Paying for the type rating is a form of exploitation but is common in the industry (however it is disguised). Doctors and lawyers also pay for their training, so you are not alone!
As I say, good luck. Starting training post 2007 is crazy, but if you have drive, determination to keep searching, and enough money to eat, eventually you will get a job (or become a far wealthier Tube Train driver)...
Firstly, good luck in the job hunt. As others have said, we all started with a basic CPL and a dream. I suspect the majority of us did not have a contact in a recruitment department who got us a job on a shiny jet within months of completing our training. We all faced the daunting prospect of getting a job in a highly competitive industry.
Read this book: Job Hunting for Pilots by Gregory N. Brown. It is written for the American market but most of the advice is transferable to the European market. Brown does two main things: First he give sound advice on how to network within the industry. Second, and more important, he knows how to motivate you. If you can't afford to buy a copy, send me a PM and I'll lend you my copy.
My next gem of advice: get a job. No, I am to being facetious! But get some money coming in the door, even if it's just a pub job, working the fire crew at your local airfield, or selling your body down the Old Kent Road (now I am being facetious). Having an income will keep your spirits up and put beer down your throat. Key issues.
After reading Brown's book you may have a good idea of how much you can be getting on with. Networking is the primary goal. With so many mountains of CVs arriving each morning on the mat at each AOC holder, you need to get yours to the attention of the Chief Pilot. People usually employ someone they know something about rather than an unknown quantity.
I worry about the true P2Fly schemes because they are exploitation. Any company who takes you on under one of these schemes does not care about you or your career development. A friend paid to join one of them as a last resort. He became ill and lost his medical temporarily, and his 'job' permanently. Whatever route you choose to get into to industry, make sure it's a stepping stone in your career, not something that you could easily regret.
I would not class Ryanair with the likes of Eaglejet. They will not show you much love but at least the company's obsession with training, standard operating procedures and safety will stand you in good stead. Moreover, you do get paid for working for them. Paying for the type rating is a form of exploitation but is common in the industry (however it is disguised). Doctors and lawyers also pay for their training, so you are not alone!
As I say, good luck. Starting training post 2007 is crazy, but if you have drive, determination to keep searching, and enough money to eat, eventually you will get a job (or become a far wealthier Tube Train driver)...
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Don't let it get you down.
Before I say anything I want you to know I am in the same boat as all of the relatively low hours, A320 rated guys lamenting about the industry and generally unhappy about the whole thing...
But one difference...
I am quite happy in my life, I still send out the CV's, try and make the contacts and study as much as I can in my spare time (gets difficult and requires balancing the following in no particular order
artying/girlfriend/friends/family)
Qualified in 2009, I got a bar job (as MikeHotel above said which made me laugh!), have worked my ass off, repay my loans, keep flying in my spare time, and saved up enough money that a P2F scheme is now an option I can take but have decided not to. May decide to down the line but am currently waiting it out to see how others get on, quite glad I did too what with Malev and Spanair collapsing.
Its not perfect and I get upset about the whole thing from time to time, but I know that eventually my time will come, I'm sure as hell not gonna give up!
And thats not much but that helps me sleep at night
But one difference...
I am quite happy in my life, I still send out the CV's, try and make the contacts and study as much as I can in my spare time (gets difficult and requires balancing the following in no particular order
artying/girlfriend/friends/family)Qualified in 2009, I got a bar job (as MikeHotel above said which made me laugh!), have worked my ass off, repay my loans, keep flying in my spare time, and saved up enough money that a P2F scheme is now an option I can take but have decided not to. May decide to down the line but am currently waiting it out to see how others get on, quite glad I did too what with Malev and Spanair collapsing.
Its not perfect and I get upset about the whole thing from time to time, but I know that eventually my time will come, I'm sure as hell not gonna give up!
And thats not much but that helps me sleep at night
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Any suggestion on books to buy to prepare for interviews? Ive heard about 'Ace the technical pilot interview' but seen a lot of bad reports on here about it. I know Im being optimistic but I like to be prepared 
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Are There Jobs Out There
One of the only ways I know is to go to people who take self sponsored pilots. Eagle Jet is not the only one out there, there is another company in Seattle where you do get a type rating and a job. Other companies in the US are doing this. You do have to pay for your own training but if you don't want the money going down the drain, maybe it's better than nothing. I think the company is Prem Air or something like that.
Low hour guys
magicmick,
Do you have a fATPL, 250 hours and no job with kids to feed? The fact that you went through with it (I'm assuming after 2007 you got your licence) in these economic times with that sort of responsibility is crazy.
Do you have a fATPL, 250 hours and no job with kids to feed? The fact that you went through with it (I'm assuming after 2007 you got your licence) in these economic times with that sort of responsibility is crazy.
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Hi Pilotchute, I appreciate and understand your sentiments. However, with respect you assume too much and know absolutely nothing about me or my circumstances.
I started with a PPL in mid 2006 when jobs for newly qualified CPL/ MEIR holders were relatively plentiful (compared to today). Unfortunately for me I finished mid 2008 as the recession/ credit crunch was biting hard and airlines (XL etc) were going bust, not a lot I could do about that just bad timing that’s all.
During this time I had (and still have) the full support of my wonderful wife, who remained in employment (and still is). If I did not have that support I would stop, much as I enjoy flying I keep it in perspective and my family come first. Since the flying work prospects were so bad I reverted back to my original engineering career as a contractor which I am still doing now and provides for my family extremely well.
I have never gone into any debt at any stage and my family are well provided for and happy thanks very much.
Please accept my sincere apologies if this comes across as a bit of a rant but crass assumptions about an individual’s situation don’t work. Judging by your earlier post, your boss has a similar problem with his assumptions.
I started with a PPL in mid 2006 when jobs for newly qualified CPL/ MEIR holders were relatively plentiful (compared to today). Unfortunately for me I finished mid 2008 as the recession/ credit crunch was biting hard and airlines (XL etc) were going bust, not a lot I could do about that just bad timing that’s all.
During this time I had (and still have) the full support of my wonderful wife, who remained in employment (and still is). If I did not have that support I would stop, much as I enjoy flying I keep it in perspective and my family come first. Since the flying work prospects were so bad I reverted back to my original engineering career as a contractor which I am still doing now and provides for my family extremely well.
I have never gone into any debt at any stage and my family are well provided for and happy thanks very much.
Please accept my sincere apologies if this comes across as a bit of a rant but crass assumptions about an individual’s situation don’t work. Judging by your earlier post, your boss has a similar problem with his assumptions.
P2F, declining T&Cs, no jobs, unemployed pilots by the shedload are the World's way of saying, "we don't need anymore pilots". Please, for everyone's sanity, quit and move on.
Time frame
Magic,
Your post had me believe that you had embarked on a integrated course post 2007. Now that you have pointed out your situation I now know what boat your in. Your comment that low hour guys may have kids to feed is valid. Problem is 1000TT is low hours. fATPL with 250TT is considered no hours.
My boss have been in this business for over 30 years and has seen most things before. He knows when the economy is up he has to spend alot more money on training as the fATPL holders are his main source of new hires. As the economy weakens and companies go under he has a steady supply of low hour to medium hour applicants. 1k to 2k hours. This suits him fine as it brings his costs down considerably and the out of work pilots are grateful for the job.
When the cycle starts again and as long as you have kept current you will get your chance. I had a long period between finishing and getting my first gig so I know how you feel. It wasn't 4 years but the fact you still can be positive says alot.
Your post had me believe that you had embarked on a integrated course post 2007. Now that you have pointed out your situation I now know what boat your in. Your comment that low hour guys may have kids to feed is valid. Problem is 1000TT is low hours. fATPL with 250TT is considered no hours.
My boss have been in this business for over 30 years and has seen most things before. He knows when the economy is up he has to spend alot more money on training as the fATPL holders are his main source of new hires. As the economy weakens and companies go under he has a steady supply of low hour to medium hour applicants. 1k to 2k hours. This suits him fine as it brings his costs down considerably and the out of work pilots are grateful for the job.
When the cycle starts again and as long as you have kept current you will get your chance. I had a long period between finishing and getting my first gig so I know how you feel. It wasn't 4 years but the fact you still can be positive says alot.
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Hi Pilotchute, many thanks for the reassuring words, I hope that you understand that I did not intend any disrespect or animosity to you in my earlier post.
I absolutely appreciate that your boss can pick and choose from the top of the tree at the moment and not have to bother with the low hanging fruit such as myself.
I am in an extremely fortunate position compared to most unemployed pilots in that I do have the support of a fantastic wife and I do have a well paid (non flying) job to keep me going and provide for my family and I do not have any debt so if the flying career never happens we will not lose our house.
Congratulations and kudos to yourself on having a flying job right now, all the best and stay safe.
I absolutely appreciate that your boss can pick and choose from the top of the tree at the moment and not have to bother with the low hanging fruit such as myself.
I am in an extremely fortunate position compared to most unemployed pilots in that I do have the support of a fantastic wife and I do have a well paid (non flying) job to keep me going and provide for my family and I do not have any debt so if the flying career never happens we will not lose our house.
Congratulations and kudos to yourself on having a flying job right now, all the best and stay safe.
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from my experience, and i can feel with you since i also had this problem , dont stuck on looking for airlines and just try to get anything. do you have an IR MEP? try some island hopping riding an islander or similar, or ride even a c172 for photo flights- anything. when you are current in the aviation rumours and options will slowly grow, and you have a chance.
bying an airbus rating is in my eyes a disater. without having flown for a company on it but with a rating in the licence every who reads your cv will think you have not much in common with being a working pilot but a rich father. thats all.
bying an airbus rating is in my eyes a disater. without having flown for a company on it but with a rating in the licence every who reads your cv will think you have not much in common with being a working pilot but a rich father. thats all.
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now we are the 12th june 2012...
so how is the situation in Euroland, better or worse? or still the same?.
do you guys got a job with your line training now? where do they hire pilots with 700tt/500 hours on 320?
what is the trend in this recession which doesn't seem to end? where do you see yourself in 1-2 or 5 years?
type rating lapsed, cpl lapsed, IR gone, rusty like hell, flew only 2-3 hours a year, do you think airlines want us?
what's do you want do now, what's your plan B? buy line training maybe ???
I know a guy he went from pilot to cabin crew, hoping to get a job in the cockpit one day, his airline went bankrupt!
call eagleJet and tell them to save our soul. to create jobs for us!!I heared they are God with their line training at LionAir and all pilots now fly for Emirates!.what do you wait?, call them, call now!
so how is the situation in Euroland, better or worse? or still the same?.
do you guys got a job with your line training now? where do they hire pilots with 700tt/500 hours on 320?
what is the trend in this recession which doesn't seem to end? where do you see yourself in 1-2 or 5 years?
type rating lapsed, cpl lapsed, IR gone, rusty like hell, flew only 2-3 hours a year, do you think airlines want us?
what's do you want do now, what's your plan B? buy line training maybe ???
I know a guy he went from pilot to cabin crew, hoping to get a job in the cockpit one day, his airline went bankrupt!
call eagleJet and tell them to save our soul. to create jobs for us!!I heared they are God with their line training at LionAir and all pilots now fly for Emirates!.what do you wait?, call them, call now!
Last edited by a320renewal; 14th Jun 2012 at 17:49.
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As has been touched on so many times on both this thread and the hundreds before it, some people seem to underestimate the power of networking.
Networking is not entering your flying stats into the recruiment section of airline X.
Networking is not sitting on pprune deliberating over whether you should become a train driver instead.
Networking is not scanning through hundreds of airlines websites only to find you do not match the joining criteria.
Like so many people before you, and many after, the phrase "right place, right time" crops up time and time again! I qualified at the end of 2009; license in hand (ink still wet) - I have been where you are now, but you just have to see the positives of the situation.
You have your license now - you are extremely exployable by many other sectors within aviation. Do you realise how many companies within the industry would welcome your expertise or knowledge with open arms?
Go out there and work as cabin crew (I did!). Go work in an airport control center (I did this too!). Don't see these as tedious jobs; you are no better than the hardworking and wonderful people who do these jobs, and you will be surprised at how fun they are, and how easy it is to network!
I met all sorts of people - and heard of numerous schemes that didn't even get posted on pprune or PJN at the time... I was successful in finally landing my childhood dream towards the latter half of last year; now flying for a large UK based airline.
Even since joining I have managed to help a friend into the same airline; this time with a fully paid for TR (again on another scheme that wasnt posted on pprune or PJN - infact, less than 40 people applied!).
No one has the answer on how best to make your way into the airlines - there is no tried and tested method; whilst P2F might work out for some, it might not for others. The same could be said about SSTR, FI etc.
All i know is what worked for me. When the industry does pick up, you and the thousands of equally qualified peers will be vying for the same roles; So ask yourself, what sets you apart?.
So get out there, work any job you can within the industry. It shows willing, it demonstrates adaptability, it allows you to use the expertise you have paid for thus far, and most importantly, it gives you a chance to engage with others. Never underestimate the power of networking. It may just open the door wide enough for you to break into the industry.
It worked for me.
Good luck!
Networking is not entering your flying stats into the recruiment section of airline X.
Networking is not sitting on pprune deliberating over whether you should become a train driver instead.
Networking is not scanning through hundreds of airlines websites only to find you do not match the joining criteria.
Like so many people before you, and many after, the phrase "right place, right time" crops up time and time again! I qualified at the end of 2009; license in hand (ink still wet) - I have been where you are now, but you just have to see the positives of the situation.
You have your license now - you are extremely exployable by many other sectors within aviation. Do you realise how many companies within the industry would welcome your expertise or knowledge with open arms?
Go out there and work as cabin crew (I did!). Go work in an airport control center (I did this too!). Don't see these as tedious jobs; you are no better than the hardworking and wonderful people who do these jobs, and you will be surprised at how fun they are, and how easy it is to network!
I met all sorts of people - and heard of numerous schemes that didn't even get posted on pprune or PJN at the time... I was successful in finally landing my childhood dream towards the latter half of last year; now flying for a large UK based airline.
Even since joining I have managed to help a friend into the same airline; this time with a fully paid for TR (again on another scheme that wasnt posted on pprune or PJN - infact, less than 40 people applied!).
No one has the answer on how best to make your way into the airlines - there is no tried and tested method; whilst P2F might work out for some, it might not for others. The same could be said about SSTR, FI etc.
All i know is what worked for me. When the industry does pick up, you and the thousands of equally qualified peers will be vying for the same roles; So ask yourself, what sets you apart?.
So get out there, work any job you can within the industry. It shows willing, it demonstrates adaptability, it allows you to use the expertise you have paid for thus far, and most importantly, it gives you a chance to engage with others. Never underestimate the power of networking. It may just open the door wide enough for you to break into the industry.
It worked for me
. Good luck!
