4 resits at ATPL any chance of actually getting a job?
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4 resits at ATPL any chance of actually getting a job?
Hi Guys,
Just been denied an interview with Ryan Air after a call from CAE because I re-sat 4 atpl theory exams.. was just looking at a wizzair application aswell and they require a max of 2 resits
has anyone here had an airline interview and/or got a job with 4 or more resits at ATPL??
would really appreciate any feedback as im kinda tearing my hair out at the possibility that i might never get an interview because i had to resit 4 exams.
Cheers
Just been denied an interview with Ryan Air after a call from CAE because I re-sat 4 atpl theory exams.. was just looking at a wizzair application aswell and they require a max of 2 resits
has anyone here had an airline interview and/or got a job with 4 or more resits at ATPL??
would really appreciate any feedback as im kinda tearing my hair out at the possibility that i might never get an interview because i had to resit 4 exams.
Cheers
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Stop going for shiny jet things.
There are plenty of not so glamours jobs out there that it won't be an issue.
After you have your first type rating and have flown the line for a bit nobody will care.
There are plenty of not so glamours jobs out there that it won't be an issue.
After you have your first type rating and have flown the line for a bit nobody will care.
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Mate, I have a friend at a major regional low cost carrier in the UK who is now a Captain on a nice shiny jet and also had 4 resits on two of his ATPL's. Every airline I have worked for have never asked about ATPL exams results or resits. Try the likes of FlyBe, CityFlyer etc...
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Resits are normal when you don't learn the questionbank by heart but try and study and understand the theory...
If FR only wants questionbank learners, so be it, it's a crap airline to work for anyhow! Don't lose your hope, most airlines don't give a damn about how many times you had to redo your ATPL theory exams
By the way, TO HELL WITH THE QUESTIONBANK!
Study the theory, not the questions my friends! The lack of understanding by some FO's with first time passes is stunning!
If FR only wants questionbank learners, so be it, it's a crap airline to work for anyhow! Don't lose your hope, most airlines don't give a damn about how many times you had to redo your ATPL theory exams
By the way, TO HELL WITH THE QUESTIONBANK!
Study the theory, not the questions my friends! The lack of understanding by some FO's with first time passes is stunning!
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Despegue, MJ,
Whilst I totally agree with the sentiment of "learn the subject, not the questions" May I be so bold as to suggest caution here....there are a hell of a lot of people that did both.
IMHO (and with apologies to the OP) anyone who DOESN'T use the QB IN ADDITION to studying the material is a fool. Use any resource at your disposal.
Would you suggest that an inexperienced FO caught in a situation they are unsure of should not refer to the captain because they should have learnt how to deal with said situation in sim or theory? Of course not.
Whilst I totally agree with the sentiment of "learn the subject, not the questions" May I be so bold as to suggest caution here....there are a hell of a lot of people that did both.
IMHO (and with apologies to the OP) anyone who DOESN'T use the QB IN ADDITION to studying the material is a fool. Use any resource at your disposal.
Would you suggest that an inexperienced FO caught in a situation they are unsure of should not refer to the captain because they should have learnt how to deal with said situation in sim or theory? Of course not.
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I don't give a how they do it, they need to turn up with an acceptable level of knowledge. I know 3 FO's this last year who have been chopped through lack of flying ability and knowledge which is more than the previous 7 years put together. And they payed for there own type ratings. 1 was mod and the other 2 Intergrated.
The developing a FO's experence base is something we can deal with and for myself I get a great deal of pleasure doing. I am not there though to hand feed them information which they have supposed to know for there PPL never mind CPL.
how they do it, they need to turn up with an acceptable level of knowledge. I know 3 FO's this last year who have been chopped through lack of flying ability and knowledge which is more than the previous 7 years put together. And they payed for there own type ratings. 1 was mod and the other 2 Intergrated. The developing a FO's experence base is something we can deal with and for myself I get a great deal of pleasure doing. I am not there though to hand feed them information which they have supposed to know for there PPL never mind CPL.
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An airline only has a limited number of vacancies. At this end of the market those vacancies are going to be very limited. Competition is therefore going to be intense. There is plenty of competition.
Whilst anybody can fail an exam, it is worth remembering that (however you studied the subject) getting over 25% of the entire question paper wrong in a multi-choice paper, doesn't really highlight that the requisite level of study was applied. Doing that four times, most certainly doesn't.
An airline is going to give successful applicants one "crack" at this. Obviously it wants people who are likely to succeed, and have a demonstrated aptitude for this.
Mediocre and bare minimum simply will not do at this level. There are very very few airline opportunities for low hour pilots in any event. As has already been mooted, the best course of action is to seek out career advancement jobs (wherever they might be found) and use the intervening years to show a level of application, attainment and commitment that dilutes this early lack of success.
Airline flying for low hour ab-initio pilots is an extremely steep learning curve. Where it occurs, it tends to involve a full time properly structured, managed and mentored training programme, that in itself dovetails into that airlines own training regime. This is a point that seems lost on many would be hopefulls. The belief that a commercial pilots licence and instrument rating is all that is required, is erroneous. There is a big gap inbetween that is usually only bridged by those who picked the relevant training programmes. or those who have filled the experience requirements to move on to the next qualifying stage.
Whilst anybody can fail an exam, it is worth remembering that (however you studied the subject) getting over 25% of the entire question paper wrong in a multi-choice paper, doesn't really highlight that the requisite level of study was applied. Doing that four times, most certainly doesn't.
An airline is going to give successful applicants one "crack" at this. Obviously it wants people who are likely to succeed, and have a demonstrated aptitude for this.
Mediocre and bare minimum simply will not do at this level. There are very very few airline opportunities for low hour pilots in any event. As has already been mooted, the best course of action is to seek out career advancement jobs (wherever they might be found) and use the intervening years to show a level of application, attainment and commitment that dilutes this early lack of success.
Airline flying for low hour ab-initio pilots is an extremely steep learning curve. Where it occurs, it tends to involve a full time properly structured, managed and mentored training programme, that in itself dovetails into that airlines own training regime. This is a point that seems lost on many would be hopefulls. The belief that a commercial pilots licence and instrument rating is all that is required, is erroneous. There is a big gap inbetween that is usually only bridged by those who picked the relevant training programmes. or those who have filled the experience requirements to move on to the next qualifying stage.
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Where it occurs, it tends to involve a full time properly structured, managed and mentored training programme,
The best seem to come from certain small schools.
Tayflight up in Scotland
Bristol
One of the schools in Bournmouth
And of course Exeter I might add that Exeter seems to always produce a known quality product.
I have flown with 4 low houred FO's taken on in the last 6 months it would have been 5 but one didn't make it through type rating, he was intergrated and it was basic flying skills let him down.
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That was in the old days pre JAR now there is no difference between the two products, in fact the intergrated product is getting rapidly worse, they need to get a huge grip of there standards and not just teach to fly multicrew jets.
This is distinct from someone of mediocre ability who may have obtained their licence by simply doing an integrated course of training. As I said, there are a lot of options out there, and an understanding of those options is very important.
Flying an Airbus 318/9/20/21 or a Boeing 737/757 etc. With only 200 odd hours is a very very limited market. There are very few realistic routes into this type of fasttrack airline placement, and it is important that people do not delude themselves otherwise.
Licence aquistion and a career path through flight instruction or aerial work, that leads on to to third and second level turboprop work, that leads on to direct airline recruitment at either turboprop or jet level, is a significantly longer, difficult and competitive career path. For the majority (who will still be the minority) of successful achievers, this has and will in the near term, continue to be the best prospect.
Whatever debate swirls around the relative merits of modular and integrated training does so in this arena. In the fasttrack arena to a jet first officer apprenticeship, the debate is a moot one, given the limited options available.
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Well unless you have had any through in the last 4 years your in for a shock.
And its not so limited to be honest there are just as many successful mod grads going through CTC EASY and RYR ratings as Intergrated.
And DHL have taken a few on as well on the 757.
There are alot of the training deptments crewed by mod trained ex FI's they go for there own.
Realistically its only the legacy carriers such as BA and BMI who hold out for your views. Quite alot of TP regional airlines either don't care or actively avoid intergrated. BUt the again you process your own recruits and choose them not the school.
Middle east now are accepting 500hours 10t EFIS TP as entrance requirments. I can remember as a TP FO the training deptment getting the right hump on as 10 FO's went off to BA with 500hours under there belt all mod trained I might add only doing 8 months on the line and paying the rest of thier 3 year bond off. Quids in compared to the cadets after comparing the salary reduction they were on and the mod -> TP -> BA pilots going in at full salarys.
And yep I have seen the intergrated boys wandering around the airport trying to strike exclusive deals up with carriers to only take there product.
And its not so limited to be honest there are just as many successful mod grads going through CTC EASY and RYR ratings as Intergrated.
And DHL have taken a few on as well on the 757.
There are alot of the training deptments crewed by mod trained ex FI's they go for there own.
Realistically its only the legacy carriers such as BA and BMI who hold out for your views. Quite alot of TP regional airlines either don't care or actively avoid intergrated. BUt the again you process your own recruits and choose them not the school.
Middle east now are accepting 500hours 10t EFIS TP as entrance requirments. I can remember as a TP FO the training deptment getting the right hump on as 10 FO's went off to BA with 500hours under there belt all mod trained I might add only doing 8 months on the line and paying the rest of thier 3 year bond off. Quids in compared to the cadets after comparing the salary reduction they were on and the mod -> TP -> BA pilots going in at full salarys.
And yep I have seen the intergrated boys wandering around the airport trying to strike exclusive deals up with carriers to only take there product.
