Is the Job market bad?
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Is the Job market bad?
I see lots of talk saying the jobs market is terrible. However, I am coming across lots of company that is hiring. The only thing I am see is that they want 1000 -1500 hours of flight time. I know I have been out of the industry for 8 plus years but trying to return as a professional pilot. Am I missing something here? Currently I have 405 hours and looking to do some serious time building, which, I believe will increase my profile. But, before I spend my money I just want to make sure that I am not missing something regarding the job market? Can someone please clue me in?
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Yes, it is quite bad.
There are some companies hiring however your figures about 1500hours TT are true.
In fact most of them also want you to have at least 300 or 500 hours on type to be considered.
Non-type rated pilot job advertisments are mostly for experienced guys for wide-body aircraft.
There are some companies hiring however your figures about 1500hours TT are true.
In fact most of them also want you to have at least 300 or 500 hours on type to be considered.
Non-type rated pilot job advertisments are mostly for experienced guys for wide-body aircraft.
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hey tlawrence2424, instead of spending money on time building, apply for Susi Air in Indonesia and you'll get paid to fly! ok not too much, (750 a month up to 500 Total Time, then it's 900$) is still a single engine (CEssna Grand Caravan) but it's turbine and it's better then spending 10k £ or more for few hours!I'm flying here and I'm not regretting the choise!
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I'm on the phone with HR people at various airlines around the UK on a daily basis and they all seem to think things are set to pick up. Some suggest low hour applicants will be considered should any hiring take place. It's all hearsay, but at least there's some measure of optimism in there.
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Yes it is terrible. 
Unless very very lucky, your be joining around 3000 new pilots holding a frozen ATPL without a flying pilot at present.
There are lots of agencies advertising for pilot jobs. These are agencies and not a airline. They have to promoted themselves and attract interest daily/ yearly otherwise they go out of business. This means that you could be applying for a pilot job when there really isn't a pilot job going. (database building). Also you will see the same job advertised by different agencies, this a common one, where agencies battle it out to earn some money. 1 flying job advertised 20 times by 20 different agencies.
They seem to want the guy and girls who have current flying job on there database. Collecting a database seem to be more popular as there a less flying jobs around.
Unless very very lucky, your be joining around 3000 new pilots holding a frozen ATPL without a flying pilot at present.
There are lots of agencies advertising for pilot jobs. These are agencies and not a airline. They have to promoted themselves and attract interest daily/ yearly otherwise they go out of business. This means that you could be applying for a pilot job when there really isn't a pilot job going. (database building). Also you will see the same job advertised by different agencies, this a common one, where agencies battle it out to earn some money. 1 flying job advertised 20 times by 20 different agencies.
They seem to want the guy and girls who have current flying job on there database. Collecting a database seem to be more popular as there a less flying jobs around.
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hey tlawrence2424, instead of spending money on time building, apply for Susi Air in Indonesia and you'll get paid to fly! ok not too much, (750 a month up to 500 Total Time, then it's 900$) is still a single engine (CEssna Grand Caravan) but it's turbine and it's better then spending 10k £ or more for few hours!I'm flying here and I'm not regretting the choise!
Thanks. But am I reading correctly when you send the get paid $750 a month and $900 after 500 hours. In what currency? Can you even pay for your living expense with this? and do the accept the FHA license?
Thanks. But am I reading correctly when you send the get paid $750 a month and $900 after 500 hours. In what currency? Can you even pay for your living expense with this? and do the accept the FHA license?
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Flyhighspeed300
You make a excellent point. I never look at it this way; agency trying to promote their company. I will now change my reseach tatics and start looking at airlines websites for pilot jobs and requirement. Do you know of any companies that is looking for pilots with low hours in the US?
You make a excellent point. I never look at it this way; agency trying to promote their company. I will now change my reseach tatics and start looking at airlines websites for pilot jobs and requirement. Do you know of any companies that is looking for pilots with low hours in the US?
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In the US, there are more active instructors according to the FAA than student pilots. Granted not all of them are actively instructing, but a lot of schools in the US now are banking on foreign students.
135 operations require 135 minimums, so you'll need 1200hrs at least.
121 ops... Some regionals are hiring right now with 800-1000tt and 100 multi, but in 2012 the mins for hiring will be 1500tt BY LAW.
So if you are not near 135 or 121 hiring mins right now, it can be a long uphill journey at the moment. Your best bet might be part 135 SIC jobs if you can find any.
135 operations require 135 minimums, so you'll need 1200hrs at least.
121 ops... Some regionals are hiring right now with 800-1000tt and 100 multi, but in 2012 the mins for hiring will be 1500tt BY LAW.
So if you are not near 135 or 121 hiring mins right now, it can be a long uphill journey at the moment. Your best bet might be part 135 SIC jobs if you can find any.
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1500 hours. This is a long uphill battle. I am just at 400 hours. You guys are full of good news 
So i guess the trick is to get hire by the regionals asap is your are lucky, otherwise you are out of luck? Well for those whom are in the same situation I am with hours, what are you planning to go inorder to build flight time without flight instructing. Does anybody knows eactly when in 2012 the law suppose to take affact?
So i guess the trick is to get hire by the regionals asap is your are lucky, otherwise you are out of luck? Well for those whom are in the same situation I am with hours, what are you planning to go inorder to build flight time without flight instructing. Does anybody knows eactly when in 2012 the law suppose to take affact?
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Did I say 2012? I meant to say August 1, 2013.
If I was still in the US, I would be instructing. If you don't want to instruct, you might look into banner towing, although it is somewhat dangerous due to a wide disparity in the quality of operators, it is typically only seasonal work, it is low paid, you will need some tailwheel time, and it is exclusively single engine time. There is also pipeline patrol work, firewatch, traffic watch, aerial mapping (a friend of mine did this but he got hired after 800hrs of instructing), Parachute dropzone pilot, Ferrying, photoflights, and more. Being in the US, you have access to general aviation jobs, but most are low paying and many require you to know somebody or require some kind of special background to get hired.
For example, I saw an ad for a jump pilot in San Diego, flying a Cessna 206. 500TT was required for insurance purposes, c206 time and drop experience preferred. Tons of guys were jumping at this job, despite the fact that they probably won't even be able to scrape by living in San Diego on their earnings alone.
I saw a ferry pilot ad in the US. 1000TT and 500XCountry time. You essentially work with an agent who will give you jobs and you make the price and give a percentage back to the agent.
Keep in mind that you are in the US, and 1500 hrs there is still considered low time generally speaking. Also, the CFI route in this US is really highly looked upon there because the general consensus is that it makes you a better a pilot and that you learn quite a bit teaching others to fly. After the Colgan 3407 crash, it was noted in the US pilot community that the captain bypassed the CFI route by doing pay to fly with an airline to gain hours/experience. There is a strong disdain in the US for pay to fly guys, so I would recommend against going that route.
In the end, you will need to make connections with people. For example, I have a friend who got hired doing bush flying in Alaska, but it wouldn't have happened for her if she didn't do all her training in Akaska and if she didn't start out as the telephone receptionist for a small flying company. A lot of flying schools give hiring preference to guys who did their CFI Ratings with them. Some guys get hired doing glider towing after spending enough time at a glider club learning to fly the gliders. So yeah, you'll have to be a little creative.
Lastly, this website is very euro-centric, not a lot of US based info here. In the US, with the exception of private bizjet operators, the airlines don't really require a type rating (except for Southwest) and they dont ask for time on type. Abroad, that is a lot more common. The US airlines DO want recent time and multi time. PM me if you want some more info
If I was still in the US, I would be instructing. If you don't want to instruct, you might look into banner towing, although it is somewhat dangerous due to a wide disparity in the quality of operators, it is typically only seasonal work, it is low paid, you will need some tailwheel time, and it is exclusively single engine time. There is also pipeline patrol work, firewatch, traffic watch, aerial mapping (a friend of mine did this but he got hired after 800hrs of instructing), Parachute dropzone pilot, Ferrying, photoflights, and more. Being in the US, you have access to general aviation jobs, but most are low paying and many require you to know somebody or require some kind of special background to get hired.
For example, I saw an ad for a jump pilot in San Diego, flying a Cessna 206. 500TT was required for insurance purposes, c206 time and drop experience preferred. Tons of guys were jumping at this job, despite the fact that they probably won't even be able to scrape by living in San Diego on their earnings alone.
I saw a ferry pilot ad in the US. 1000TT and 500XCountry time. You essentially work with an agent who will give you jobs and you make the price and give a percentage back to the agent.
Keep in mind that you are in the US, and 1500 hrs there is still considered low time generally speaking. Also, the CFI route in this US is really highly looked upon there because the general consensus is that it makes you a better a pilot and that you learn quite a bit teaching others to fly. After the Colgan 3407 crash, it was noted in the US pilot community that the captain bypassed the CFI route by doing pay to fly with an airline to gain hours/experience. There is a strong disdain in the US for pay to fly guys, so I would recommend against going that route.
In the end, you will need to make connections with people. For example, I have a friend who got hired doing bush flying in Alaska, but it wouldn't have happened for her if she didn't do all her training in Akaska and if she didn't start out as the telephone receptionist for a small flying company. A lot of flying schools give hiring preference to guys who did their CFI Ratings with them. Some guys get hired doing glider towing after spending enough time at a glider club learning to fly the gliders. So yeah, you'll have to be a little creative.
Lastly, this website is very euro-centric, not a lot of US based info here. In the US, with the exception of private bizjet operators, the airlines don't really require a type rating (except for Southwest) and they dont ask for time on type. Abroad, that is a lot more common. The US airlines DO want recent time and multi time. PM me if you want some more info
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Zondaracer
What you are saying is that I am most likily to be hired by an airline by becoming an CFI and don't do pay to fly. I was seriouslly looking into doing one of these program to build some hours.
What you are saying is that I am most likily to be hired by an airline by becoming an CFI and don't do pay to fly. I was seriouslly looking into doing one of these program to build some hours.
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Tlawrence,
That is correct. In the US, if you do pay to fly schemes, a lot of hiring guys will either file your résumé straight into the round file, or subtract any P2F time from your totals (as if you never did it). It is looked down that much in the US. Get your CFI, CFII, and MEI and that will get you current. Look around first if any schools are looking for instructors and see if you can do your training there.
That is correct. In the US, if you do pay to fly schemes, a lot of hiring guys will either file your résumé straight into the round file, or subtract any P2F time from your totals (as if you never did it). It is looked down that much in the US. Get your CFI, CFII, and MEI and that will get you current. Look around first if any schools are looking for instructors and see if you can do your training there.
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zondaracer - what utter BS!
How would they know it was P2F? Hours are hours, regardless of how you require them.
Who you think they will choose? If you have 1500 hours on 737 with current TR or an instructor with 1500 hours on C152/172/PA28, and no TR?
Fact is that there are experienced pilots out there, making quick money on wannabes wanting to get a job, and the airlines are loving it too!
It is a disgrace, but it is the way it is!
I heard of one company, wanting you to pay your own TR and then they bond you for 3 years for the line training, and they pay you 1000 Euro ($1400) a month for at least 18 months.
And these schemes are promoted by pilots themselves!
How would they know it was P2F? Hours are hours, regardless of how you require them.
Who you think they will choose? If you have 1500 hours on 737 with current TR or an instructor with 1500 hours on C152/172/PA28, and no TR?
Fact is that there are experienced pilots out there, making quick money on wannabes wanting to get a job, and the airlines are loving it too!
It is a disgrace, but it is the way it is!
I heard of one company, wanting you to pay your own TR and then they bond you for 3 years for the line training, and they pay you 1000 Euro ($1400) a month for at least 18 months.
And these schemes are promoted by pilots themselves!
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Boeingdreamer, it is not BS. The info I was giving is US specific since the OP lives in the US. Things are different in America. Granted, in the US, you are most likely not going to fly a 737 with only 1500 hrs only on small aircraft. Most guys going straight to a 737 in the US are coming from either the military with background on various types of aircraft or from the regionals flying TPs and Jets, they are not coming from pay to fly companies.
And yeah, if you go to Europe and do pay to fly and go back to America, given that you have the papers, they might be none the wiser, but if you do your flying at Gulstream International as SIC on the B1900, that will be noticed.
Like I said, things on either side of the Atlantic are a little bit different and I said in my previous post does not apply to Europe
And yeah, if you go to Europe and do pay to fly and go back to America, given that you have the papers, they might be none the wiser, but if you do your flying at Gulstream International as SIC on the B1900, that will be noticed.
Like I said, things on either side of the Atlantic are a little bit different and I said in my previous post does not apply to Europe
Last edited by zondaracer; 16th May 2011 at 19:22.
