Bankruptcy - Does it affect employment?
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Bankruptcy - Does it affect employment?
I ask this question for UK airlines mainly but if anyone has knowledge of world ailrines policy I'd be interested also.
I have been declared bankrupt over a year or so now. My question is this... if I hold all the qualifications necessary, is there anything that will prevent me from being employed by an airline with this bankruptcy status over my head?
Thanks in advance.
I have been declared bankrupt over a year or so now. My question is this... if I hold all the qualifications necessary, is there anything that will prevent me from being employed by an airline with this bankruptcy status over my head?
Thanks in advance.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Not knowing every airline's requirements it's difficult to answer.
With your bankruptcy, are you permitted to hold a credit card?
If not, that may have some influence with the airlines that issue you a credit card to pay for accommodation and so on.
With your bankruptcy, are you permitted to hold a credit card?
If not, that may have some influence with the airlines that issue you a credit card to pay for accommodation and so on.
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bankruptcy
It shouldnt, although its a question many employers are asking nowadays......
I was in a difficult position a few years ago and looked at IVA but after getting some good advice on it didnt bother as you might as well go bankrupt instead.
The only issue at the time was that for certain airlines being bankrupt or had been bankrupt made getting Captaincy questionable as you were seen to be 'influencable' by outside parameters.
Dont know if this is still the case, I bet there are some guys in chief positions in airlines on the brink of bankruptcy
I was in a difficult position a few years ago and looked at IVA but after getting some good advice on it didnt bother as you might as well go bankrupt instead.
The only issue at the time was that for certain airlines being bankrupt or had been bankrupt made getting Captaincy questionable as you were seen to be 'influencable' by outside parameters.
Dont know if this is still the case, I bet there are some guys in chief positions in airlines on the brink of bankruptcy
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I consider the only reason some airlines appear to favour employing integrated pilots over modular is because they have considerably more debt, thereby making them much better employees. They'll do anything to keep those repayments going - whereas non-indebted employees have a certain freedom that often leads to .... how shall I say this .... "independent spirits".
I doubt bankrutpcy itself would cause any problems but not having any debt might make an airline less likely to want to hire you - not that they are likely to find that out of course.
I doubt bankrutpcy itself would cause any problems but not having any debt might make an airline less likely to want to hire you - not that they are likely to find that out of course.
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v6g,
BS post of the month award.
Are you telling me that a mod pilot would behave less professionally purely because if they were sacked, or given a slap on the wrist, they can just walk into another job purely because they are in less debt? Even during the boom times of the industry?
I've never heard so much rubbish in my life.
BS once again.
BS post of the month award.
Are you telling me that a mod pilot would behave less professionally purely because if they were sacked, or given a slap on the wrist, they can just walk into another job purely because they are in less debt? Even during the boom times of the industry?
I've never heard so much rubbish in my life.
not having any debt might make an airline less likely to want to hire you
Educated Hillbilly
It depends on the airlines training bond policy.
For example Eastern Airlines and Cityjet both have a training "bond" that is infact a loan taken out in your name (the airline makes the loan repayments for you during your bond period). This is a way to get around the tenuous nature of training bonds, because in the event of you leaving the company early the loan is in your name and you are personally liable (so in fact not really a training bond). I believe the Easyjet TRSS entry route use to entail a similar loan arrangement.
In this instance it is likely that due to your bankrupcy you will not be approved for the loan; hence in this case the airline will be unable to employ you. Further to this a number of companies have straight out Self Sponsored type ratings, so if you don't have the cash to pay for the rating then once more you may find it difficult to obtain a loan for such a scheme.
So while it doesn't stop you obtaining employment, it will certainly limit the companies that you are able to work for.
For example Eastern Airlines and Cityjet both have a training "bond" that is infact a loan taken out in your name (the airline makes the loan repayments for you during your bond period). This is a way to get around the tenuous nature of training bonds, because in the event of you leaving the company early the loan is in your name and you are personally liable (so in fact not really a training bond). I believe the Easyjet TRSS entry route use to entail a similar loan arrangement.
In this instance it is likely that due to your bankrupcy you will not be approved for the loan; hence in this case the airline will be unable to employ you. Further to this a number of companies have straight out Self Sponsored type ratings, so if you don't have the cash to pay for the rating then once more you may find it difficult to obtain a loan for such a scheme.
So while it doesn't stop you obtaining employment, it will certainly limit the companies that you are able to work for.
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I've never heard so much rubbish in my life.
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v6g,
BS post of the month award.
Are you telling me that a mod pilot would behave less professionally purely because if they were sacked, or given a slap on the wrist, they can just walk into another job purely because they are in less debt? Even during the boom times of the industry?
I've never heard so much rubbish in my life.
Quote:
not having any debt might make an airline less likely to want to hire you
BS once again.
BS post of the month award.
Are you telling me that a mod pilot would behave less professionally purely because if they were sacked, or given a slap on the wrist, they can just walk into another job purely because they are in less debt? Even during the boom times of the industry?
I've never heard so much rubbish in my life.
Quote:
not having any debt might make an airline less likely to want to hire you
BS once again.
Ladies and gentlemen, here are the new industry requirements for a First Officer Position:
_ATPL Licence
_Minimum of 1500h total time
_ ICAO level 4 proficiency
_Proof of heavy debt (certified by an international bank)
Only those meeting those requirements will be contacted.
Last edited by Jumbo744; 10th Sep 2009 at 03:49.
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It may be that some here work for employers who are more traditional in their approach to employees and aren't aware of what goes on elsewhere - to them I say v6g is making a statement of fact that applies to a great many newer companies, some of them very large indeed.
That, sadly, is the reality for many new guys, especially in some of the locos.
Betpump, actually I think he's implying the opposite. Indebted pilots are far more likely to be subservient to the company when contentious matters arise - and may well not act as robustly as others might. Would they strike, for instance?
If some won't even go sick/decline discretion because it "goes on my record and might affect command prospects" how do you suppose a £50,000 debt might affect their actions? They're only human, after all.
That, sadly, is the reality for many new guys, especially in some of the locos.
Betpump, actually I think he's implying the opposite. Indebted pilots are far more likely to be subservient to the company when contentious matters arise - and may well not act as robustly as others might. Would they strike, for instance?
If some won't even go sick/decline discretion because it "goes on my record and might affect command prospects" how do you suppose a £50,000 debt might affect their actions? They're only human, after all.
Last edited by Agaricus bisporus; 10th Sep 2009 at 10:06.
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UK personal bankruptcies are normally dischaged after 12 months..not 3 years! Crash n burn, PM me if you want expertguidance. BM
As for PMing you for 'expertguidance' - no thanks!
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Increasingly employers are carrying out a credit check on potential employees and asking them the question "have you ever been declared bankrupt?" I don't know the knock on effect if the answer is yes. Did you go down the integrated route and over extend yourself? sounds like it..
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Unless there is a loan involved for training I'm intrigued to know why an employer would want to be so intrusive - what has that got to do with piloting?
I can't see why it would affect the issue of a company credit card as it is the company, not the cardholder who pays the bills.
Downright bloody nosey, if you ask me.
I can't see why it would affect the issue of a company credit card as it is the company, not the cardholder who pays the bills.
Downright bloody nosey, if you ask me.
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With a company credit card the responsibility for repaying the debt back is shared between the cardholder and the company. That means the company makes the payments each month until they can't/don't.
If the lender cannot retrieve the funds from the company guess who gets lumbered with the problem?
If the lender cannot retrieve the funds from the company guess who gets lumbered with the problem?
Firstly the employer cannot ask and cannot use your bankruptcy against you.
Secondly its over in 2 years.
Thirdly its perfectly possible that some airlines prefer to have co-pilots (for that is what you will be) who are heavily in debt. You're much less likely to go on strike, pay union subs or complain when moved around.
I think personal bankruptcy is admirable and logical. The banks showered this money out recklessly - don't spend the next 25 years of your life slaving to pay them back the money they invented. It usury. Jesus showed them the finger - I suggest Wannabes heavily in debt do the same.
WWW
Usury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Secondly its over in 2 years.
Thirdly its perfectly possible that some airlines prefer to have co-pilots (for that is what you will be) who are heavily in debt. You're much less likely to go on strike, pay union subs or complain when moved around.
I think personal bankruptcy is admirable and logical. The banks showered this money out recklessly - don't spend the next 25 years of your life slaving to pay them back the money they invented. It usury. Jesus showed them the finger - I suggest Wannabes heavily in debt do the same.
WWW
Usury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Tunbridge Wells the 'debt capital of Europe' - Telegraph
a German pilot with debts of £100,000 to move to Britain to clear his debts.
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Jesus showed them the finger - I suggest Wannabes heavily in debt do the same.
Clearly there are people who find themselves in this situation, and where bankruptcy is unavoidable, for many of them there may be no choice or it is the lesser of two evils. Bankruptcy may be a way forward, but the suggestion that it has no future repercussions is naive and erroneous. A bankruptcy may be discharged, but that is a very different concept from the one where it no longer has to be declared if the question is asked, or that anyone would have to disregard it in deciding on an individuals risk status.