Eaglejet Airlines
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Eaglejet and Airlines
Hello,
does anybody know where pilots are going to fly when they do the Eaglejet Airbus hour building program?
In an email from them they say: Europe,Southeast Asia or Pacific.
Does anybody know some company names.
does anybody know where pilots are going to fly when they do the Eaglejet Airbus hour building program?
In an email from them they say: Europe,Southeast Asia or Pacific.
Does anybody know some company names.
Last edited by mjboeve; 20th Jul 2009 at 16:26.
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Interesting!! I work with BA and I don't think you will find any Eaglejet guys here, perhaps you mean BMI. Also they never use Cathay, as Cathay only train their own guys. With respect, I would check the accuracy of the info before posting it..
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Eaglejet Line Training
Amazing number of jerks on PPrune - must have little willies...
Back to your question - think about it - if Stefane at EJ published who he has contract connections with, a whole load of PPruners and wannabees would shortcut him and go straight to the airline. Like any other agency, he'll protect his client base as much as possible.
What you have to do is get in touch with Stefane, discuss it with him and if he thinks you are serious, he'll obviously have to let you know who he has contracts with - in my experience, you'd be surprised at the calibre.
Seems "cloak and daggerish", but it does work. Friend of mine did a A320 TR with EJ - training was absolutely first class - major National Carrier using state of the art kit - and Line Training and hour building on a European mid low cost carrier is a dream. Pretty good chance of a permanent job also - after all, you've done 300 hours with them so they know how well you can drive the thing.
Ignore the rubbish you hear about EJ on PPrune - I doubt anybody could be better trained - even by the big hitters like BA - oh forgot, they don't recruit anymore...
Fogey
Back to your question - think about it - if Stefane at EJ published who he has contract connections with, a whole load of PPruners and wannabees would shortcut him and go straight to the airline. Like any other agency, he'll protect his client base as much as possible.
What you have to do is get in touch with Stefane, discuss it with him and if he thinks you are serious, he'll obviously have to let you know who he has contracts with - in my experience, you'd be surprised at the calibre.
Seems "cloak and daggerish", but it does work. Friend of mine did a A320 TR with EJ - training was absolutely first class - major National Carrier using state of the art kit - and Line Training and hour building on a European mid low cost carrier is a dream. Pretty good chance of a permanent job also - after all, you've done 300 hours with them so they know how well you can drive the thing.
Ignore the rubbish you hear about EJ on PPrune - I doubt anybody could be better trained - even by the big hitters like BA - oh forgot, they don't recruit anymore...
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Ignore the rubbish you hear about EJ on PPRuNe - I doubt anybody could be better trained - even by the big hitters like BA - oh forgot, they don't recruit anymore...
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Thx for the serious answers I will try to get contact with Stefane, and for sure I know not everybody agrees with this way of getting hours, but I guess at the moment it’s one of the few options.
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EagleJet line training.
Typical PPrune response - when somebody disagrees with your one sided post, go Ad Hominem, go for the jugular and accuse them of being on EJ's payroll!
I'm retired and have nothing to do with EJ or any other TRTO - other than I can recognise a good training regime when I see one. No sense in being coy about the training - my friend was trained by LH for the sponsor airline - I think LH is as good as BA - not better than BA, but as good as.
Fact is that the schools are churning out guys with fATPL's who really don't know one end of a heavy transport aeroplane from another. They have done a few hours in a light twin with basic systems, but really don't get anywhere near being useful until they've got the TR and some hours under their belts.
But at the present time, in this economy, its doubtful that anybody will pay a 250 hr fATPL to get his TR, so like MOL's crew, its safe to assume that training costs will have to include getting the TR.
But even with a TR, they've still only got a few hours of actual heavy jet time, so without the next step of line training, they really haven't advanced much. So distasteful as it is, and the worst recession for a century is distasteful,seems to me they will have to pay for line training if they want to give themselves a fighting chance of getting a job.
Sure it kicks up their costs dramatically, but in reality, the costs of the fATPL are wasted if you never get a job, and there's precious few Airlines willing to hire a TR'd new guy with 40 hours of sim and 3 or 4 in a real aeroplane, so even the cost of the TR is wasted unless you go further and get the 3/500 hours that EJ offers.
Not everybody can afford it, but if you can, I suggest you are a hell of a lot more employable with 300 hours of jet time than without it.
Yes, I know the airlines prefer 1500 hours, and there's lots of those guys around, but if you can impress your training airline in those 300 hours, and you've obviously been trained of their SOP's so don't need to be retrained like the 1500 hour guy, then MAYBE they will offer a permanent job.
Not a great option, but I suggest the only one out there at present. Other option is to sit back, bemoan the state of the economy and drive yourself crazy trying to find a job - but probably not in aviation.
Just my 2 pence!
I'm retired and have nothing to do with EJ or any other TRTO - other than I can recognise a good training regime when I see one. No sense in being coy about the training - my friend was trained by LH for the sponsor airline - I think LH is as good as BA - not better than BA, but as good as.
Fact is that the schools are churning out guys with fATPL's who really don't know one end of a heavy transport aeroplane from another. They have done a few hours in a light twin with basic systems, but really don't get anywhere near being useful until they've got the TR and some hours under their belts.
But at the present time, in this economy, its doubtful that anybody will pay a 250 hr fATPL to get his TR, so like MOL's crew, its safe to assume that training costs will have to include getting the TR.
But even with a TR, they've still only got a few hours of actual heavy jet time, so without the next step of line training, they really haven't advanced much. So distasteful as it is, and the worst recession for a century is distasteful,seems to me they will have to pay for line training if they want to give themselves a fighting chance of getting a job.
Sure it kicks up their costs dramatically, but in reality, the costs of the fATPL are wasted if you never get a job, and there's precious few Airlines willing to hire a TR'd new guy with 40 hours of sim and 3 or 4 in a real aeroplane, so even the cost of the TR is wasted unless you go further and get the 3/500 hours that EJ offers.
Not everybody can afford it, but if you can, I suggest you are a hell of a lot more employable with 300 hours of jet time than without it.
Yes, I know the airlines prefer 1500 hours, and there's lots of those guys around, but if you can impress your training airline in those 300 hours, and you've obviously been trained of their SOP's so don't need to be retrained like the 1500 hour guy, then MAYBE they will offer a permanent job.
Not a great option, but I suggest the only one out there at present. Other option is to sit back, bemoan the state of the economy and drive yourself crazy trying to find a job - but probably not in aviation.
Just my 2 pence!
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Don't pay attention to those whom say is useless. Do what you think it's the best way for improving your career...
Regards.
EB
Regards.
EB
Last edited by EchoBravo; 18th Feb 2010 at 09:22.
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This is nuts, paying and paying, would be better to buy your own damn plane...
I've just lost my job due to this finance crisis, and last thing I can afford now is a typerating...
As you said, more money than brains.
I've just lost my job due to this finance crisis, and last thing I can afford now is a typerating...
As you said, more money than brains.
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I have no axe to grind here, but...
Could be, but this Old Fogey chap at least puts forward an argument (debatable as it might be) in a syntactically and grammatically correct way, which is not typical of trolling.
So in that spirit, and purely out of curiosity, regarding this statement:
I wonder if Mr. OF could explain why an airline would want to fill that position with an employee when that would mean one less slot available for them to fulfil their contractual obligations with the training provider, who keeps sending paying trainees to them (with both training provider and airline making a profit in the process). This point has been raised many times here and it'd be interesting to see a refutation from someone with a diverging opinion who at least can spell (which makes for a welcome change if nothing else 
).
As I said, just curious.
Sounds like a bit of Trolling here
So in that spirit, and purely out of curiosity, regarding this statement:
Yes, I know the airlines prefer 1500 hours, and there's lots of those guys around, but if you can impress your training airline in those 300 hours, and you've obviously been trained of their SOP's so don't need to be retrained like the 1500 hour guy, then MAYBE they will offer a permanent job
).As I said, just curious.
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No I am not a Troll - I've already said I have no connection with EJ - but just somebody, probably much older than you, who has a different perspective to you.
Maybe its age - I'm now 65 so I'm truly independent of the current aviation market but I have personal reasons to follow it closely.
Interestingly, having done my 3r's in the 1950's and 60's, I can also put together a cogent argument - even if you disagree with it - to get get my point across. One look at postings on Pprune will illustrate, if nothing else, a decline in written English!
Look at the facts:
1. There appears to be one airline recruiting low hours guys at present - FR - but its a strange outfit and apparently runs and recruits at one man's whim - paying for the loo or standing up on flights - I ask you!
2. Other than that, there's really nowhere else in Europe for a low hours guy to go.
3. FR asks you to pay for a TR and then pays a very low rate until you get 500 hours - all the while, if we are to believe the paranoids out there, waiting to fire students after they get to 500 hours and would move up to a better pay scale.
4. So what is a 28 yr. old to do? Why a 28 yr. old? Well, guys starting in this career in their late 20's have a problem - if this recession lasts a few more years, they may be getting a bit old to sit in a right seat (who wants a 31 yr. old on his first flight in a big shiny jet?) as the Schools will keep on producing fATPL's in their early 20's.
5. So lets look at the rationale to sign up for an EJ scheme.
a. Young 22 yr old - if he gets into FR, has to pay for type anyway. If he doesn't get in, he can still wait for the market to improve - so he probably doesn't see the need for an EJ course.
b. Older 28 yr old - if he gets into FR, has to pay for type anyway. If he doesn't get in, he can't sit around and wait as "tempus fugit" hits him badly. So what does he do? Well for one, as he's 28, presumably he worked for some time before starting out in this game. So he MAY have a bit of cash left after his fATPL, in which case, he may be prepared to develop his skills further by signing up for an EJ programme.
6. Now if you look at the EJ programmes, you could say, and you no doubt will, that they are a ripoff that leads you nowhere.
But look at it this way - you are already going to have to pay FR for the TR, so the extra over cost for Line Training/300 hours over the TR is not that much - my friend paid in the region of Euros 11,500 for 300 hours in a 320 - a better deal than buying time in a Seneca! The TR was done at a very high level by LH, Base Training was excellent and line flying under supervision was done by very experienced training captains.
7. So what does he get after this is over? Well, he's fully rated and has 300 hours on type - heavy jet, no less. Not enough to wander into the wide world and get a job with many airlines, but better than the guys waiting to find somebody to sponsor their TR or even those guys getting "bumped" by FR into later and later TR courses that may never happen.....
8. You may say that this is an expensive way to do it - but you know, if guys have the funds, what is to stop them. So much depends on the airline you are with.
Just put yourself in that Airlines's mind for a second: they turn over many millions of $ each year, so earning a paltry Euro 11,500 from a student cannot be a serious profit centre for them - and my friend's airline currently has only 2 EJ pilots on staff.
So if they are not doing it for the money, why bother? One explanation is they are doing it because they need pilots and this is an ideal way to try out new pilots on a probationary period.
In other words, "you guys get a chance, over 300 hours, to show us how good you are - if you ARE good, and if we need pilots at the time you finish, then we'll offer a contract - if you don't measure up, then you'll leave us with 300 hours."
9. In my friend's case, the airline has recruited EVERY EJ student they have tried out over the past several years - but as I said, they were trained by LH on the airline's SOP's and did have 300 hours to really get to grips, and "strut their stuff", in the 320 cockpit.
10. Finally, its tempting to see this as the end of an industry as we know it. But you know, that really started many years ago when airlines ceased being run by flying types and the Accountants took over.
One or two EJ students will not destroy the airline industry, any more than the tens of thousands of existing pilots have allowed it to be destroyed to date, and from these student's point of view, it makes sense to risk another Euros 11,500 to give yourself a slight edge over other fATPL's who have just got their shiny blue book but no heavy jet time in it.
Fogey
Maybe its age - I'm now 65 so I'm truly independent of the current aviation market but I have personal reasons to follow it closely.
Interestingly, having done my 3r's in the 1950's and 60's, I can also put together a cogent argument - even if you disagree with it - to get get my point across. One look at postings on Pprune will illustrate, if nothing else, a decline in written English!
Look at the facts:
1. There appears to be one airline recruiting low hours guys at present - FR - but its a strange outfit and apparently runs and recruits at one man's whim - paying for the loo or standing up on flights - I ask you!
2. Other than that, there's really nowhere else in Europe for a low hours guy to go.
3. FR asks you to pay for a TR and then pays a very low rate until you get 500 hours - all the while, if we are to believe the paranoids out there, waiting to fire students after they get to 500 hours and would move up to a better pay scale.
4. So what is a 28 yr. old to do? Why a 28 yr. old? Well, guys starting in this career in their late 20's have a problem - if this recession lasts a few more years, they may be getting a bit old to sit in a right seat (who wants a 31 yr. old on his first flight in a big shiny jet?) as the Schools will keep on producing fATPL's in their early 20's.
5. So lets look at the rationale to sign up for an EJ scheme.
a. Young 22 yr old - if he gets into FR, has to pay for type anyway. If he doesn't get in, he can still wait for the market to improve - so he probably doesn't see the need for an EJ course.
b. Older 28 yr old - if he gets into FR, has to pay for type anyway. If he doesn't get in, he can't sit around and wait as "tempus fugit" hits him badly. So what does he do? Well for one, as he's 28, presumably he worked for some time before starting out in this game. So he MAY have a bit of cash left after his fATPL, in which case, he may be prepared to develop his skills further by signing up for an EJ programme.
6. Now if you look at the EJ programmes, you could say, and you no doubt will, that they are a ripoff that leads you nowhere.
But look at it this way - you are already going to have to pay FR for the TR, so the extra over cost for Line Training/300 hours over the TR is not that much - my friend paid in the region of Euros 11,500 for 300 hours in a 320 - a better deal than buying time in a Seneca! The TR was done at a very high level by LH, Base Training was excellent and line flying under supervision was done by very experienced training captains.
7. So what does he get after this is over? Well, he's fully rated and has 300 hours on type - heavy jet, no less. Not enough to wander into the wide world and get a job with many airlines, but better than the guys waiting to find somebody to sponsor their TR or even those guys getting "bumped" by FR into later and later TR courses that may never happen.....
8. You may say that this is an expensive way to do it - but you know, if guys have the funds, what is to stop them. So much depends on the airline you are with.
Just put yourself in that Airlines's mind for a second: they turn over many millions of $ each year, so earning a paltry Euro 11,500 from a student cannot be a serious profit centre for them - and my friend's airline currently has only 2 EJ pilots on staff.
So if they are not doing it for the money, why bother? One explanation is they are doing it because they need pilots and this is an ideal way to try out new pilots on a probationary period.
In other words, "you guys get a chance, over 300 hours, to show us how good you are - if you ARE good, and if we need pilots at the time you finish, then we'll offer a contract - if you don't measure up, then you'll leave us with 300 hours."
9. In my friend's case, the airline has recruited EVERY EJ student they have tried out over the past several years - but as I said, they were trained by LH on the airline's SOP's and did have 300 hours to really get to grips, and "strut their stuff", in the 320 cockpit.
10. Finally, its tempting to see this as the end of an industry as we know it. But you know, that really started many years ago when airlines ceased being run by flying types and the Accountants took over.
One or two EJ students will not destroy the airline industry, any more than the tens of thousands of existing pilots have allowed it to be destroyed to date, and from these student's point of view, it makes sense to risk another Euros 11,500 to give yourself a slight edge over other fATPL's who have just got their shiny blue book but no heavy jet time in it.
Fogey
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Fogey, maybe you misunderstood me, I was referring to the original poster when I wrote Trolling.
I have no arguement with eaglejet, in fact I am an ex eagle jet pilot on the wrong side of 30, it got me a job.
By the way, that was a very well articulated post.
I have no arguement with eaglejet, in fact I am an ex eagle jet pilot on the wrong side of 30, it got me a job.
By the way, that was a very well articulated post.
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Some varied debate on here, including the normal " don't prostitute" yourself brigade, sadly, there is no going back to the old days of airline recruitment.. after all..why should they. No one has addressed the issue of the "wrong stuff" getting into the system as the previous filters have been by-passed. That aside, the real issue is mitigating the training risk and operational risks of the SSTR guys, hence why the longer hours program tend to work out better. I am usually very pleasantly surprised by the commitment and the complete lack of " I have a right to fly because I paid for it" attitude and wish we could keep more of these guys on, however, the bean counters put restrictions in place that us mortals have to follow. By the way guys. there are other schemes out there, not just EJ... do look deeper
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I agree with the airlines mitigating training risk however I believe there has been at least one occasion with a European carrier taking on a paid line training cadet and bouncing it down the runway with pax and grounding it. Several more further afield.
It's a fine line in paying to complete a product (ie X amount of hours with passengers) and safety.
This is another debate which will go on forever... First it was frowned on to pay for a TR... This seems to be slowly becoming accepted, now its the line hours debate.... Scary thing is what next??
It's a fine line in paying to complete a product (ie X amount of hours with passengers) and safety.
This is another debate which will go on forever... First it was frowned on to pay for a TR... This seems to be slowly becoming accepted, now its the line hours debate.... Scary thing is what next??
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Don't know if it helps, but my friend, who is doing the EJ 300 hour E320 plan, is going to do it in 4 months!
After his Base training, his airline required 60 sectors (each being one flight) of supervised training before the LPC. He did that in about 6 weeks - slightly slow as there are not unlimited training captains available.
With the LPC, he's being scheduled for about 90 block hours a month (20 work days/10 rest days) and some Available or Standby days, so he's actually getting close to 100 hours a month - but it is summer! Flying everything from 1 hour up and downs to 4/5 hour mid range flights.
AOF
After his Base training, his airline required 60 sectors (each being one flight) of supervised training before the LPC. He did that in about 6 weeks - slightly slow as there are not unlimited training captains available.
With the LPC, he's being scheduled for about 90 block hours a month (20 work days/10 rest days) and some Available or Standby days, so he's actually getting close to 100 hours a month - but it is summer! Flying everything from 1 hour up and downs to 4/5 hour mid range flights.
AOF
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Old Fogey
Your friend did very well to get 60 sectors in 6 weeks, thats 10 per week, which allowing for days off, unless they are very short is about the max you could do anyway.. You mention that the airline required 60 sectors prior to LPC, I gather you mean Line Check,as he would have needed an LPC and OCC before flying any sectors, also JAR requires a minimum number of sectors/hours when converting to a new type, neverless I would say it is very very rare to do 300 hrs in 4 months, even short haul. Apart from LTCs you also need safety pilots and a TRE or TRI for the first few sectors, this all takes time to organise and as such crew should be prepared to wait six months for the 300hrs. The EJ system does work for some, however I am aware of the delays in guys starting, due shear volume of candidates and the fact many programs are " on hold" with the airlines. We must get an enquiry a day from guys with type ratings and no line sectors looking for line sectors, unfortunately capacity is short and outstripped by demand. My advice would be to keep prepared, up to speed tech knowledge wise and if required but some sim if its been a while since the LST, otherwise you may get back tracked when you start line training. Has anyone actually got a start date for the EJ 500hrs A320 or is this still subject to big delays?
Your friend did very well to get 60 sectors in 6 weeks, thats 10 per week, which allowing for days off, unless they are very short is about the max you could do anyway.. You mention that the airline required 60 sectors prior to LPC, I gather you mean Line Check,as he would have needed an LPC and OCC before flying any sectors, also JAR requires a minimum number of sectors/hours when converting to a new type, neverless I would say it is very very rare to do 300 hrs in 4 months, even short haul. Apart from LTCs you also need safety pilots and a TRE or TRI for the first few sectors, this all takes time to organise and as such crew should be prepared to wait six months for the 300hrs. The EJ system does work for some, however I am aware of the delays in guys starting, due shear volume of candidates and the fact many programs are " on hold" with the airlines. We must get an enquiry a day from guys with type ratings and no line sectors looking for line sectors, unfortunately capacity is short and outstripped by demand. My advice would be to keep prepared, up to speed tech knowledge wise and if required but some sim if its been a while since the LST, otherwise you may get back tracked when you start line training. Has anyone actually got a start date for the EJ 500hrs A320 or is this still subject to big delays?
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gl2651,
You say: "dont hate the players, hate the game"
Hmmm, I have to say that you are very wrong when it comes to atp rubbish.
Imagine what would happen if once ATP scheme was created and NOBODY would sing up for this bull $hit? They would shut down very quick.
What would all the operators do? Say... OH f**k we cant find any pilots with TR + time on it, lets shut down our operation?
No, they would simply look at tons of applications they have, invite people to their interviews and selection process and provide them with TR and salary to fly their planes!
The problem is when people decide to become a comercial pilot over a night, because they where surfing the net and bumped into some shiny FTO website. "become a B777 pilot in 18 months, get your wings, today amsterdam - tomorrow singapore + as a bonus you will get as much pu$$y as you wish to"
After spending loads of life savings or bank money and realizing that they not even good at it, they will go and pay more, to get "more experience" and at least try to cash back on their "investment" one day.
Right now the situtaion is bad for everyone, but once things turn around, their will be airlines screening pilots, the thing is that only good one will get the good jobs, and the rest will go and pay to get "more experience" to be "ahead" of others or start with the "little" jobs.
There is alot of kids out there that never worked in their life and do not know how hard it is to make any money, take care of your self, and make a decent living standards for your close one. (they live in a kids world, where parents take care of everything)
The truth is that 99.9% of people that ever worked and get payed for it, would NOT EVER work for free! Let alone paying some company to work for them. (some like to call it, "getting required experience" these days)
Im sorry for all of you that expected to get a job on shiny jet right after your training, did you ever try to find out anything about avaiation sector your self before spending all this monye, or you just liked what your FTO was telling you.
We all know that singing up for such as schemes is very wrong, every single one of us knows that. Some of us just like to think that its ok, I have no other choice, just so they can feel better about it.
You say: "dont hate the players, hate the game"
Hmmm, I have to say that you are very wrong when it comes to atp rubbish.
Imagine what would happen if once ATP scheme was created and NOBODY would sing up for this bull $hit? They would shut down very quick.
What would all the operators do? Say... OH f**k we cant find any pilots with TR + time on it, lets shut down our operation?
No, they would simply look at tons of applications they have, invite people to their interviews and selection process and provide them with TR and salary to fly their planes!
The problem is when people decide to become a comercial pilot over a night, because they where surfing the net and bumped into some shiny FTO website. "become a B777 pilot in 18 months, get your wings, today amsterdam - tomorrow singapore + as a bonus you will get as much pu$$y as you wish to"
After spending loads of life savings or bank money and realizing that they not even good at it, they will go and pay more, to get "more experience" and at least try to cash back on their "investment" one day.
Right now the situtaion is bad for everyone, but once things turn around, their will be airlines screening pilots, the thing is that only good one will get the good jobs, and the rest will go and pay to get "more experience" to be "ahead" of others or start with the "little" jobs.
There is alot of kids out there that never worked in their life and do not know how hard it is to make any money, take care of your self, and make a decent living standards for your close one. (they live in a kids world, where parents take care of everything)
The truth is that 99.9% of people that ever worked and get payed for it, would NOT EVER work for free! Let alone paying some company to work for them. (some like to call it, "getting required experience" these days)
Im sorry for all of you that expected to get a job on shiny jet right after your training, did you ever try to find out anything about avaiation sector your self before spending all this monye, or you just liked what your FTO was telling you.
We all know that singing up for such as schemes is very wrong, every single one of us knows that. Some of us just like to think that its ok, I have no other choice, just so they can feel better about it.
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If you can afford it ( or source the money ), I would still definitely buy some hours on type.
The hour building might even prove rewarding and enjoyable once accepted as a necessary evil. ( you might even hook up with those girls you mention! )
Ultimately it's a personal choice, no FATPL needs to be ridiculed irrespective of their chosen course of action. Pro or against these schemes.
I happen to believe that the market has changed and 500 hours minimum on type is absolutely required to get paid work.
Enjoy!!!
The hour building might even prove rewarding and enjoyable once accepted as a necessary evil. ( you might even hook up with those girls you mention! )
Ultimately it's a personal choice, no FATPL needs to be ridiculed irrespective of their chosen course of action. Pro or against these schemes.
I happen to believe that the market has changed and 500 hours minimum on type is absolutely required to get paid work.
Enjoy!!!