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Airline Training Partnership (Merged)

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Airline Training Partnership (Merged)

Old 24th Nov 2008, 15:39
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 339
It would, if the cadets stood any chance of getting a proper job at the end of it.

I don't want to start a debate on the rights and wrongs of paying for a type rating with no job guarantees at the end. At the height of the flight training boom this sort of scheme would have helped lots of people into the industry, for better or for worse they would be on a decent salary and would be in the RHS of a jet.

I want to start a debate as to why ATP are being allowed to get away with conning tens of thousands of pounds from desperate wannabes when they know that there is no chance of a job at the end. Jonathan Curd knows that his claims on his website are utter, utter fiction and he should be held accountable.

If you want to get a realistic view of the flight training industry then read some of WWW's posts. Now is not the time to be buying a new sofa let alone an A320 type rating.

If you want to throw your own money / your parents money / the banks money away then the website is The Airline Training Partnership .
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 21:45
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 1
Angry Airline Training Partnership (Merged)

i just wanted to let people know that i was on the ATP scheme

I found the company: Jonathen and Stelios to be very deceitful, they are basically playing with peoples dreams

They are liars and only after one thing " your money"

open your eyes people!!!!

I posted this on here as i did not want people to make the same mistake i did by paying ATP only to be taken for a ride!!!

I know i made a mistake and i am paying the consequences, i do not need to be told by the other members of PPRuNe.
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 22:10
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Age: 38
Posts: 93
fly172829,

Sorry, to hear of your woes. Is this ATP scheme anything to do with CTC's ATP programme that they offer when open to apply after gaining CPL/IR??
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 22:37
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hoylake
Age: 46
Posts: 414
No, nothing to do with CTC.
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 01:18
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Age: 39
Posts: 249
call watchdog - they should be investigating thus sort of stuff

remember if something sounds too good to be true it normally is!
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 08:22
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southampton
Posts: 66
Wow fly172829.

You're a brave man for coming out. Take a look at the other thread about ATP. I posted my experiences. Exact same as you. I heard 3 lies before I even started the course. They had clearly stated people were already employed however I've since learnt that no one has been placed with any airline. Which is fine but it doesn't jsutify charging 26k for a TR !!! Clearly they are making a killing out of the TR business.
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 10:04
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Deepest Europe...
Age: 35
Posts: 224
Ironic that the banner advert that came up on my screen immediately above the original post was the one for Airline Training Partnership, proclaiming "Job Placement Available"...

How they get away with it is anyone's guess.
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 11:30
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: دبي
Age: 36
Posts: 19
Perhaps the owners of ATP would care to comment on these posts in person. After all, I think most people now know who they are

Besides, that would also serve to alleviate a few nerves on here for those that have been through the scheme and those considering it..

Last edited by ed_boy; 2nd Mar 2009 at 16:57.
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 12:03
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Essex
Age: 41
Posts: 15
The Owner a certain Jonnathan, used a name of Easy.......something and posted on PPRuNe to advertise his company, he was pretending to be somebody and by saying something of the lines " have you hear much about this company, my mate has done it and says its top notch"

Very great and convinient way to post a link to to your company; he even started to bad mouth his company; saying easyjet is not a great career airline and that its good for a stepping stone, very proffesional.
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 12:17
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,254
ATP Scheme - New York, Paris, Peckham "No money back, No guarantee"
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 12:25
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 5
Just wanted to add my personal thanks to all those who didn't listen to the advice given on here about this scheme at its incepetion. Not only have I enjoyed not being called off standby but also the extra money you guys have paid in as easyJet's most profitable speedy boarders (with an allocated seat) has contributed very nicely to my circa 5% payrise.
Thank you!
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 16:27
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,088
When mentioning Stelios we are talking about the Stelios Haji-Ioannou, founder of easyJet right?
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 16:58
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55
Posts: 84
No he is another idiot who works as a pilot for easyJet.
The other Sir Stelios is a reputable business man, he would have probably started his own easy320 Type Rating School, not a fly by night operation......

Last edited by johnpilot; 25th Nov 2008 at 18:03.
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 17:30
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 44
From what we hear, the company belongs to some other high profile easy management pilot.

The contract has been terminated and the TRTO is going bankrupt.

They will no longer send any students to easyJet or for that matter to any other airline.

This information has been crosschecked and confirmed by senior training staff.

Last edited by 320seriesTRE; 25th Nov 2008 at 17:42.
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 19:00
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southampton
Posts: 66
Just Google his name and you will find that the guy is no ordinary TRI/TRE. He's been marketing 'fear of flying' videos for years. A true business man with an outrageous sales pitch and sales tactic that will fool many. ATP RIP.
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Old 25th Nov 2008, 19:10
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southampton
Posts: 66
Moderators,

The ATP ad.....I know business is business is business but isn't there some kind of limit for aiding blatantly deceitful/untrustworthy organisations???
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Old 26th Nov 2008, 11:20
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Age: 34
Posts: 548
If its true about ATP going up in flames, then the industry is now a 'baw' hair better.

I feel sorry for the guys who paid money to this company but the correct advice was always posted here from day 1.
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Old 26th Nov 2008, 14:56
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Manchester
Age: 44
Posts: 63
Hello guys

Just to let you all know, I was part of the ATP scheme, one of the first through the training and I just wanted to share my own views on this matter.

I'm not going to get into an embroiled discussion about the rights or wrongs of doing such a scheme - it was my decision entirely and I stand by it 100%

I have not been born with a silver spoon in my mouth, nor do I enjoy the benefits of wondrous and plentiful contacts, I am a hardworking, down to earth, middle class chap who wants to make something of himself, and for all of you who would deny me bettering myself and achieving something - who said class snobbery was dead eh?

I gave myself a few months of sending CV's out, making phonecalls, knocking on doors etc with no reply before deciding on the TR/LT route.
For those that will obviously say that my flying skills are of a questionable nature, I undertook the GAPAN/RAF test a while back and my results were one of the highest they have had, high enough for the RAF to try and talk me out of going for the airlines and actually onto fast jets instead.

The truth of the matter being unless you had lots and lots of hours, or unless you know someone pretty senior within the industry there was not much chance of getting a job with 200hrs and a CPL/IR, hence I decided to go for a Type Rating with 150hrs Line Training (as we all know that a type rating without any hours on type is pretty worthless), just the same as a few friends before me have done (with different companies) and all successfully are in jobs now by the way.

I found the Type rating hard work but enjoyable - The (easyJet) instructors were great, methodical, knowledgeable and took the time to teach you properly.... its no wonder that they have such a high reputation for training within the industry!

The Line Training with easyJet was fantastic, the Training Captains were very professional, took the time to train you properly, constantly tested your knowledge by hitting you with questions and I'm very thankful that I decided to go the LT route with ATP/easyJet as I've put the hard work and effort in and got a really good standard of training out of it.

Now to the crux of the matter - the job...
When I signed up I wasn't guaranteed anything! I was assured there was a very good chance of employment, but looking at it on a purely training point of view, ie an A320 TR with 150 (very good quality) hours on type it seemed highly attractive as eagle jet offer a similar scheme for approx 15,000 more again with no job guarantee either!

When I started my Type Rating the industry was going hell for leather, there were staff shortages, there was no fuel problems (still under $100 a barrel) and nobody had even come up with the term 'credit crunch' - no reason for me to believe that I wouldn't be able to find employment with someone like easyJet - entry requirements needed for a direct entry FO is a TR and 50 hrs on type

Since then lets just take stock of what has happened -

easyJet, Ryanair, Thomas Cook and BMI alongside nearly every other airline that would normally be happy to take on low hours guys with Airbus on its fleet, around the world has stopped recruitment

We've seen crude prices soar to over $150 a barrel and have now dropped to just under $50 jeopardising airlines that hedged at the wrong time

Zoom, XL, Frontier, Skybus, Silverjet, ATA ans Oasis airlines to name but a few have all gone bankrupt with the likes of even Alitalia in trouble

Pilots being forced to take unpaid leave

Banks are going under on both sides of the Atlantic

Governments are handing out billions of pounds to save others only to have them then repossess peoples homes

...and that dreaded term 'credit crunch' is on eveyones minds

Am I surprised that I'm not in a job?
Not really.

Am I confident that I'll get a job once it picks up?
Very confident.

Do I think I'll get offered a job ahead of the hundreds of CPL/IR guys with no jet experience?
I'd like to think so.

Do I blame ATP for the current global economic downturn?
Have a guess.

Do I think ATP have done everything in they could to secure us interviews, even in this climate?
I know they have been and still are working bloody hard at it!

Do I think I made the wrong decision doing the TR/LT?
No.
Although my timing could have been better.

Do I think that I have done everything I could have possibly done within my means and power to make myself attractive to the airlines?
YES.



That's really all I want to say..... sorry its been a bit long winded, but I think everybody has missed the most major point here - what the industry economic climate is like!

As I said, I am one of the first four to be put forward and I know that the other 3 guys all share the same views as me. It's extremely frustrating for us, but we all realise what an utterly crap time it is for this whole industry!

I invite any other ATP guys & gals who feel the same way as me on this matter to post a reply.


Darvinder (Dee) Kang
aka Deefect


ps. ATP have not gone bankrupt, up in flames, up in smoke etc etc so thanks to all the scaremongering people out there who enjoy putting about rumours to destroy peoples and students livelihoods, its our lives you are playing with and I will thank you all kindly to allow us to make our own decisions may they be good or bad

Last edited by kangy; 26th Nov 2008 at 15:03. Reason: added ps note
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Old 26th Nov 2008, 15:09
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Age: 39
Posts: 249
I undertook the GAPAN/RAF test a while back and my results were one of the highest they have had, high enough for the RAF to try and talk me out of going for the airlines and actually onto fast jets instead.
Top Gun eh? So that how raf recruitment works now? They cream off the best people taking the GAPAN aptitude test onto fast jets. Arrogance!!
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